BrahMos, the best cruise missle ever made

Check this out :

Countries like Brazil, Chile, South Africa, and Germany had asked for India’s satellite data and images. “Even the US has been using our own Indian Remote Sensing images when one of their satellites ran a glitch,”ISRO chief said.

Indian Space Research Organisation chief G Madhavan Nair told newsmen here yesterday he expected to maintain a revenue growth of 25 per cent because “our greatest advantage is the cost-competitiveness of our space programme”.

“The satellite that we just put in orbit, we had spent only Rs3.8bn whereas a similar one in the US will fetch Rs15bn,” he said.


Full article...

Wow india makes cheap space launchs. you just send the sateilites into space for them so they can keep cost down.. you must be proud

companys of the coutries mentioned use those launches not the coutries governments

Originally posted by chinawhite
Wow india makes cheap space launchs. you just send the sateilites into space for them so they can keep cost down.. you must be proud

not as proud as you would be for all the "great" copies that the higher IQ china churns out

Originally posted by chinawhite
Wow india makes cheap space launchs. you just send the sateilites into space for them so they can keep cost down.. you must be proud

companys of the coutries mentioned use those launches not the coutries governments

whats that supp to mean??!
Of course govts ask for remote sensing images too..
what proof do you have that they don't??

Mach 8 missile?! I read somewhere the US tested a Mach 7 scramjet missile, it went only a short distance before it melted and vapourised.

How far can the LOSAT (Mach 6) go without vapourising?

[edit on 19-5-2005 by Taishyou]

Originally posted by Daedalus3

Originally posted by chinawhite
Wow india makes cheap space launchs. you just send the sateilites into space for them so they can keep cost down.. you must be proud

companys of the coutries mentioned use those launches not the coutries governments

whats that supp to mean??!
Of course govts ask for remote sensing images too..
what proof do you have that they don't??

when you post stuff have a source or link. nobodys gonna take your word for it

Another thing about the BrahMos is that the probability of it being shot down is very very low, thanks to its Mach 3 speed.

But the subsonic Tomahawk, despite having a longer range will be shot down 9 out of 10 times by countries other than Afghanistan and Iraq.


^^Picture of a Tomahawk cruise missile being shot down over Serbia.

Infact Yugoslavia announced that the Yugoslav Air Force and Air Defence units have downed 42 Tomahawk's

I don't think the Yugoslavian government is a very credible source... from what they say, they have shot down one B-2 and 3 F-117s. Tomahawks getting shot down are likely, but not any more significant than the other missles like BrahMos etc. Besides, the BrahMos travels in an arc before dropping down and becoming a sea skimming missle. This makes it vunerable to getting shot down before it drops. And, how much more effective would a supersonic missle be compared to a subsonic one? Less time to react? Ok, but during war the Navies would be on full alert everytime. Harder to shoot down? If it is going head on and another missle is trying to intercept it, the BrahMos is unable to make any sudden turns mid-course, making it just as vunerable as the other missles.

the tomahawk is the best cruise missile in the world. its incredibly had to shoot down a missile traveling at tree-top level that has a very small RCS

i doubt the serbians even shot down one

I think we cleraed up the fact that there's no "best" cruise missile tihng..
The Brahmos is better than the tomahawk in many aspects but it lacks range..
Each cruise missile is well suited for certain roles..

And as for your doubt on tomahawks over serbia.. you doubted wrong..
The serbians claim to have downed many cruise missiles..Don't know real numbers though.. google to get estimates..

Tomahwak interception and destruction:


Also about the adv that supersonic flight gives a missile.. BIG adv.. reactions times are reduced to fractions of normal times..

[edit on 24-5-2005 by Daedalus3]

I know that, but during battle all units will be on full alert and probably capable of launching something to stop it within 15 seconds. Given this, the chance to hit with a single ASM is about 20-40% with high alerentness of the crew on board. If a surprise attack happenened, the chances of hitting would be around 90-95%, and there is still not much difference with the chance of hitting. I suppose it would be harder to intercept a supersonic missle, but not THAT much different.

The tomahawk is the superoior land attack cruise missile, it is fr more highly manouverable than the Brahmos could ever be.
I'd be very surprised in a land attack role if the Brahmos could travel lower than 100 meters on relatively flat terrain, let alone undulating terrain.
It's land attack guidance systems seem rudimentary comapred to the new tomahawks. Brahmos has no man in the loop capability or a secondary terminal guidance system like IIR.

LMAO, at people who think this is a world beater, especially witht he very limited information available. The thing hasn't even seen combat yet.

As for a Mach 8 version, that is complete BS, just not possible physically with India's state of materials science. That statement just makes some of the claims made by the Indians, more suspect.

Brahmos isn't necessarily the best cruise missle ever made, but it is damn cheap, extremely rugged and damn fast. Easily the best bang-for-the buck of any cruse missile in operation, and lower production and research costs in India (in the same way India has advantages in IT) will make it so that Western contemporaries will be impossible to be cheaper.

In the first year of production alone, over 1000 will be built, and will soon be equippable in air, land, and sea platforms -- literally every platform capable of housing a Brahmos will have one. India has already mapped the entire Asian and IOR region with

Originally posted by rajkhalsa2004
The sheer number of these missiles and their speed will overwhelm any potential enemy. The Brahmos is an integral part of Indian nuclear doctrine for the lightning fast elimination of any first strike Pakistani or Chinese nuclear forces. Neither the Chinese or certainly the Paks have any counter to it.

It is an incredibly powerful (and completely overlooked by armchair generals) force multiplier in any conflict India will be in.

LOL, this missile would have no chance of taking out Chinese nuclear forces. A tomahowk strike would have a far better chance espcially as it can fly far lower and farther than the Brahmos.
Hell you don't even have a nuclear warhead for it. Talking about armchair generals look in the mirror first.

The Brahmos is ok, but it is fr from revoltionary and its land attack capabilities are very limited.

wtf able to hit chinese nuclear forces.

jesus your outlook on anything military is warped,.

i doubt the americans know wheres chinas missile are let alone india.

I need links or info to indian sateillite tech. why do you say indias GPS?? they are going to use the russian one Gloass

the russian Yahkont is almost the same or is the same as the brahmos in outside deminsions.

how cheap is this missile going to be??
how was the test conducted.?? with the high accurancy. using indias own test course.??

Jesus, don't be so pedantic people. Realize a typo and get at what I meant to say (what should be logically inferred from by the rest of my post.)

I mixed two lines in my post, that it is a weapon against Pak nuclear forces, and that neither Pakistan nor China have a counter to it.

The Brahmos is Pakistan specific, and its primary role and design is to eliminate Pakistani first strike platforms immediately at the outbreak of a war. Obviously a 300km cruise missile is not designed and cannot eliminate the entire Chinese nuclear forces.


Chinawhite,
India is partnering up with GLONASS but it will take several years until this is fully operational. However, India is constructing the "Indian Regional Navigation Satellite System" (IRNSS), with an indigenous constellation of satellites that will give a GPS-like guidance for a good chunk of space in and around Indian territory for both commercial and military applications. I've also read reports that IRNSS will be integrated in the GLONASS network as a redundant secure system in its own right.

I think there is a thread about it in this forum somewhere. Anyway, Brahmos is designed to recieve directional cues from AWACS or Indian aircraft (notably the radar of the Su-30MKI which is specifically designed as a platform for this missile.)


The Brahmos is derived from the Yakhont, or more accurately a development of the Yakhont. It has a more advanced guidance system and lower RCS.

There is no public figure (or agreed upon estimate -- I've heard anywhere between $500K-$1.2mil) for the cost of the Brahmos, but the developers admit it is significantly less than comparable cruise missile alternitives. The fact that the production assembly lines will be in India no doubt is a contributing factor.

Originally posted by rogue1

You like setting up straw men arguments?


The tomahawk is the superoior land attack cruise missile, it is fr more highly manouverable than the Brahmos could ever be.

The Brahmos is not meant to be extremely manouverable. It is meant to be extremely fast. There is no active midcourse correction capability at present (midcourse correction is internal), but there isn't a need of one. Its speed, Mach 2.8 constant velocity throughout the flight, nearly 3x the speed of the Tomahawk, and very low RCS make for a very low time to target, a low probability of detection, and a virtually impossible ability of interception.

Now in any extended-range Brahmos this capability would be necessary, and doubtless will be subsequently developed. The earlier Moskit had such a capability, and the developers have made clear that the Brahmos guidance system (Indian contribution) are several entire generations ahead of that, and supposedly the best in the world. Russian experience and Indian IT skills make a formidable pair.


I'd be very surprised in a land attack role if the Brahmos could travel lower than 100 meters on relatively flat terrain, let alone undulating terrain.
It's land attack guidance systems seem rudimentary comapred to the new tomahawks.

Really now? And I'll bet you have actual facts to back that up, then? Especially since no data on the subject is released or would even be near unclassified, and especially moreso since the lcam variant isn't even in existance!

There is no need for knee-jerk reaction and puffed up claims based on vapor


Brahmos has no man in the loop capability

And again, when talking about speeds/ranges, there isn't a pressing need for such.


or a secondary terminal guidance system like IIR.

Um... bro, let's not get ahead of ourselves. The Brahmos is currently only in AShM role as of yet. It is launched in the general proximity of a known target/fleet and will initiate its own search and locate the target that corressponds to onboard data. It has a powerful, if low-emission, ARH seeker that, in low-low-low proflile will give an enemy ship only .86 minutes to intercept.

As for a terminal guidance system, (I'm not sure what a secondary terminal guidance system is, perhaps you can explain), no one can make the claim for or not because the LCAM version of the Brahmos has not been developed yet.

However, it is common knowlege that a DSMAC-like system with image-matching, etc. is under development. As it is India has realtime high-resolution image mapping of Asia, and ISRO the biggest commercial seller of 1m resolution images in the world.


LMAO, at people who think this is a world beater, especially witht he very limited information available. The thing hasn't even seen combat yet.

As I must LMAO at people who make claims against the matter based on assumptions of variants not even designed yet.

The Brahmos is a revolutionary anti-ship cruise missile: by far the fastest operational AShM, with one of the worlds (or the worlds, if you believe the manufcatuerer) best smart-seeker active target guidance system. Any ship's cwis/sam will be hard pressed to hit a Mach 2.8 sea skimmer (undertaking high G terminal maneuvers) -- and even moreso, defending itself from the incoming debris of the 3000 kg missile if actually destroyed at CIWS range

Any ship's survival from a 300kg warhead and high kenetic energy impact is highly unlikely and it's pretty well established that multiple hits from subsonic AShMs would be required to sink a fairly large warship. What would the poor guy do against multiple Brahmos, coming in at varying flight profiles from multiple directions?

When you factor in all that with the price and ease of deployability, then you've got a winner.


As for a Mach 8 version, that is complete BS, just not possible physically with India's state of materials science. That statement just makes some of the claims made by the Indians, more suspect.

Yeah, that's why everyone from Lockeed-Martin to Thales is moving their materials research labs to India. Oh please. Let's stick to facts in this disucssion rather than baseless and emotive condescention.

And besides, the Indian contribution is the materials and the electronics. The Russian contribution is the engine. And, if nothing else in the world, they are damned good with their engines.

-Raj



[edit on 28-5-2005 by rajkhalsa2004]

Originally posted by rogue1


LOL, this missile would have no chance of taking out Chinese nuclear forces. A tomahowk strike would have a far better chance espcially as it can fly far lower and farther than the Brahmos.
Hell you don't even have a nuclear warhead for it. Talking about armchair generals look in the mirror first.
.

WE're all armchair generals here.. Do you have any stats showing thta the tomahawk flies lower than the brahmos??

The pics of those shot down over yugoslavia seem to bee pretty high up..

Yes lol, LMAO at all these claims it hasn't even been used operationally yet.

AS for the claims of it being cheap that's complete BS as well. Western missiles cost about $1000 a km. The Tomahawk hence has a 1400km range and a cost of $1.4 million. Now the Brahmos according to your own estimates costs up to $1.2 million for a 300km range - need I say more. Cheap my arse.

As for terrain following simple logic dictates that something moving at the speed of a rifle bullet takes a far greater distance to turn than a missile flying a 3rd the speed, simple as that. Hence the Brahmos cannot fly on the deck unless it's over a flat desert or some such terrain. In hilly areas it would hvae to fly fairly high over 100m t ensure it didn't ctash into a hill.

Like you yourself said it is an antiship missile, they have very basic guidance systems they don't need anything elses and the ocean is flat. Oh yeah the Russians had faster antiship missiles in the 70's and they had a greater range LOL. Look up the AS-4 and AS-6 missiles.

Yes, the claim of a mach 8 version is complete BS, only someone who has no idea could possibly believe that.

Seems blind patritosm has blnded you to the simple logic.

Originally posted by rogue1
AS for the claims of it being cheap that's complete BS as well

I said it is cheap to comparable cruise missiles. Supersonic cruise missile programs have been started by several countries and not many are financially viable. Of operational supersonic cruise missiles, Brahmos is the cheapest.

And how the heck does cost/mile be the benchmark for unit cost of two comlpetely different systems? That is such an arbitrary and disingenuous unit of measurement. The Brahmos flies over three times faster than the Tomahawk with a much shorter range, a survivability considerably greater, and a KE lethality nine times greater than conventional subsonic missile of the same mass and warhead.

What you're doing is trying to quantify the speed of the sprinter AND the endurance of a runner in the same unit of measurement... and then arbitrarily saying 'oh but the endurance is worth more'. Its a loaded arguement like the other straw men.


Hence the Brahmos cannot fly on the deck unless it's over a flat desert or some such terrain. In hilly areas it would hvae to fly fairly high over 100m t ensure it didn't ctash into a hill.

And again, we have no basis to make any assumption on a lacm version of the Brahmos because there is no released data. The Brahmos flies supersonic skimming in ashm role by virtue of a flat sea. A longer-ranged lcam missile may be supersonic only, for example, in the terminal phase. Or it may not hug the ground at all, relying solely on speed and stealth instead of approach.

And I don't think we'll have any real facts on the matter for several years. The lacm version will likely be inducted only c. 2010, and the airborne launched version, after that.


Oh yeah the Russians had faster antiship missiles in the 70's and they had a greater range LOL. Look up the AS-4 and AS-6 missiles.

Air launched ashm missiles will by their very nature have longer range and an air launched Brahmos versions is likewise stated to have a significantly longer range. Brahmos isn't the fastest anti-ship missile in the world (no one claimed that! -- another straw man argument from you!) It is the fastest, anti-ship cruise missile. It may seem like a minor difference but is significant. Retooling an As-6 to be launched lo-hi-lo profile will significantly lower its speed and range.

And obviously, the seeker head of the Brahmos is several generations more advanced. I mean, even if you're going to go the route and say that India doesn't have the scientific capability ( ) to design guidance and targetting systems... then revert back to the logic that the Russians are also designing this missile, and a modern Russian missile that the Russians claim to have the most advanced targetting system in the world, I guess, would be more capable than 30-year old Russian missles, eh?

(But shhh! The Ruskiis also say that India developed the systems, but we'll both just ignore that for the thought exercise)


Yes, the claim of a mach 8 version is complete BS, only someone who has no idea could possibly believe that.

There is no mach 8 version of the missile, yet. The mach 8 figure was a stated (or surmised, anyway) next version goal. Obviously it would need a breakthrough in hypersonic technology. Incidently, India's own hypersonic cruise vehicle project, developed by Defence Research and Development Laboratory (DRDL), has a prototype slated to fly (at speeds of mach 6-7) in 2007.



So obviously people have their goal of breaking that barrier. I'm sure that in the future, a hypersonic Brahmos may eventually come about, what with both Russia and India working on the project. Not for a while (at the least a decade) though, I'd think.

-Raj