What is Federal Income Tax?

What is it, why do we owe it, where does the money go, and do we have to file?


I have heard a lot about Federal Income Tax lately. From what I am hearing, the tax goes to the Federal Reserve Bank and not our gov. It is nothing but a fee for using their money. I have also heard that the income tax was not supposed to continue after WWII, and that you do not have to pay if you have not filed. Something about when you file your taxes, and sign your name, you are agreeing to pay the following year, and if you dont sign, then you dont have to pay.

I was very surprised to hear about all this. I even know an individual who has not paid Federal Income Tax since 1998. From what he said, he talked to the IRS who is employed by the Federal Reserve Bank, and said that he was not going to sign anything agreeing to pay them money. They told him as long as he is all paid up, and has not signed the contract, then they cant make him pay anything.

This all sounded like bs to me, but I am having a hard time finding any information to dispute it. Does anyone know anything about this? I would love to get more info.

[edit on 13-5-2005 by mrsdudara]
sorry about my edit, I went on and on and forgot to ask my questions.

[edit on 13-5-2005 by mrsdudara]

A scam?
A farce?
A crime?
An insult to our slave owning forefathers?
An insult to US citizens taking the burden to pay for too much beuracracy? ie DEA, HS, DofE, etc...

I also have another question. If we are truely a democracy, and most do not want, or agree with Federal Income Tax.....why cant we stop it?

Originally posted by mrsdudara
I also have another question. If we are truely a democracy, and most do not want, or agree with Federal Income Tax.....why cant we stop it?

Because our Government is no longer a Democracy. What we have now is basically Fascism disquised as Democracy.

Tell you what, the federal income tax and the IRS are SCAMS.

The Sixteenth Amendment was supposed to OK federal income tax, but its ratification is a bit dubious to say the least. It may be that the 16th Amendment wasn't really ratified.

I even know an individual who has not paid Federal Income Tax since 1998. From what he said, he talked to the IRS who is employed by the Federal Reserve Bank, and said that he was not going to sign anything agreeing to pay them money. They told him as long as he is all paid up, and has not signed the contract, then they cant make him pay anything.

My guess is your friend probably paid income tax in the form of payroll deductions. They probably paid too much and since they do not owe money to the IRS they do not have to file a tax return at the end of the year.

Chances are that your friend is owed money by the IRS for the past 6 years, why would the government care about being able to keep his money for free. If I were him I would do my taxes for the years he didn't file and try to get any money owed to him back. I don't think he will get interest on the money since he never filed and its his fault the IRS still has it.

It doesn't matter if he signed anything or not if he owes money the IRS more than likely will collect it. If he is paid up or is owed money the IRS really doesn't care.

Skibum I bet you are right. I doubt that I will ever get this friend of mine to do his taxes again, but he is retired so he will probably never owe taxes again. I must say, I got quite a giggle out of this. His last verbal rampage aginst the irs ended with VICTORY. He was so proud....he thought he had proven that you do not have to pay taxes if you dont want to. HAHA and he probably just didnt owe any.

Originally posted by Amethyst
Tell you what, the federal income tax and the IRS are SCAMS.

The Sixteenth Amendment was supposed to OK federal income tax, but its ratification is a bit dubious to say the least. It may be that the 16th Amendment wasn't really ratified.

It was ratified, but doesnt the 16th amendment go aginst our original constitution?

Is it possiable to change it, if so how?

Amendment XVI - Income taxes authorized. Ratified 2/3/1913. Note History

The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration.

The modern income tax code is a political football used to redistribute income and wealth from productive people to the very rich, very poor, and represented special interests.
I don't think the constitution has amounted to much since the Supreme Court bowed down to Roosevelt and the New Dealers; the commerce clause now trumps all of the bill of rights when it comes to the majestic authority of the federal government.

Urm... Article 1, Section 8 anyone? That's the bit that says "Congress shall have the power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts, and excises...for the common defense and general welfare of the United States." (The expansive view of this provision was upheld in U.S. v. Butler, 297 U.S. 1, 1936.)

Quite simply, paying income tax is Constitutional, even notwithstanding any Amendment. And it's the law. The relevant section of the U.S. Code is reproduced here:

straylight.law.cornell.edu...

Originally posted by mrsdudara
I even know an individual who has not paid Federal Income Tax since 1998. From what he said, he talked to the IRS who is employed by the Federal Reserve Bank, and said that he was not going to sign anything agreeing to pay them money. They told him as long as he is all paid up, and has not signed the contract, then they cant make him pay anything.

I'm not sure I understand this... the IRS told him as long as he's paid up, they can't make him pay anything? I would imagine the situation would be different were he not paid up.

-koji K.

[edit on 14-5-2005 by koji_K]

[edit on 14-5-2005 by koji_K]

Income tax is unconstitutional

Constitution Party platform on taxation

www.law.cornell.edu...

-koji K.

Originally posted by mrsdudara
What is it, why do we owe it, where does the money go, and do we have to file?


I have heard a lot about Federal Income Tax lately. From what I am hearing, the tax goes to the Federal Reserve Bank and not our gov. It is nothing but a fee for using their money. I have also heard that the income tax was not supposed to continue after WWII, and that you do not have to pay if you have not filed. Something about when you file your taxes, and sign your name, you are agreeing to pay the following year, and if you dont sign, then you dont have to pay.

I was very surprised to hear about all this. I even know an individual who has not paid Federal Income Tax since 1998. From what he said, he talked to the IRS who is employed by the Federal Reserve Bank, and said that he was not going to sign anything agreeing to pay them money. They told him as long as he is all paid up, and has not signed the contract, then they cant make him pay anything.

This all sounded like bs to me, but I am having a hard time finding any information to dispute it. Does anyone know anything about this? I would love to get more info.

[edit on 13-5-2005 by mrsdudara]
sorry about my edit, I went on and on and forgot to ask my questions.

[edit on 13-5-2005 by mrsdudara]

I strongly suggest you go to your local major bookstore (Barnes & Noble, Strand, Collesium Books, whatever) and ask where the books by David Icke are at.
Read "The Biggest Secret", then "And the Truth Shall Set You Free". Then whatever of his other books intrest you.
David Icke goes into graphic detail on how the Federal Reserve is the biggest scam ever done to Americans. And how the Federal Income Tax is the 2nd biggest scam and how it's in fact illegal. Yes the IRS is an illegal creation!

And Icke lists at the end of every chapter in all his books... all his proof which can be looked up at any major library, and bookstore.

[edit on 15-5-2005 by OpenSecret2012]

Do we have to file a return? I believe most people do. If your regular income only came from a regular wage earning job, it would be foolish to not file and get your overpayment in taxes back from the federal government. Most employers I believe automatically deduct federal and state taxes from each paycheck. If someone doesn't pay taxes owed, the IRS can confiscate your current income and your property I believe as well as impose severe penalties.

I found this link that might be useful for those wondering if they don't need to file a return. Please use with your own judgement since I am only providing a link and can't vouch if the information is true or not.

www.turbotax.com...

As far as where our tax dollars go, they go to pay for social security for the elderly, for education, for the defense of everyone in this country, for research which leads to new jobs here in the US, and to pay all of our services we receive from the government such as police going after thieves and murderers.

Originally posted by mrsdudara
It was ratified, but doesnt the 16th amendment go aginst our original constitution?

If you look at the dates that the States signed that Amendment, you'll see that it was "officially" ratified during the Christmas Holidays that year but not signed until well into the next year...In other words, the Amendment was passed without the full Quorum that would have been required to pass it in a Constitutional manner.

But a more direct answer to your question is "yes, that Amendment is in direct violation of the main text of the Constitution itself." The Constitution itself does not give the Federal Government the right to levy any taxes upon the US Citizens except a tax based upon population. Section 9, Clause 4; No Capitation, or other direct, Tax shall be laid, unless in Proportion to the Census or Enumeration herein before directed to be taken. Koji_k just didn't read into the Constitution quite far enough...

Also, Amethyst, you might want to check out what the We The People Foundation have been doing...And what results they've been getting...About the Federal Income Tax scam.

[edit on 15-5-2005 by MidnightDStroyer]

I was lucky enough to find this on ebay
The Organic Sovereign American Freeman Compendium
1998 Sleeping Eagle Press

It goes into great detail about the IRS and The Federal Reserve among other topics.

Here is a link
www.wealth4freedom.com...

an interesting read

www.the7thfire.com...

forgot the other link...here it is

Thanks for all the links and info. It is truely amazing how corrupt the system is now days. It is hard to tell what is legal and what is not.



OpenSecret, I am anxious to get those books I have heard that they are well worth the read. I had forgoten about Icke, but I will get the the barnes and noble site later and order those.

Originally posted by orionthehunter
As far as where our tax dollars go, they go to pay for social security for the elderly, for education, for the defense of everyone in this country, for research which leads to new jobs here in the US, and to pay all of our services we receive from the government such as police going after thieves and murderers.

This is where I get confused. We pay social security tax, it is seperate from the Fed. Income tax. As far as education goes, quite a bit comes from the state. They have already threatened to take that away if a percentage of the districts in the state have not passed the "no child left behind" standards. Now, the military portion has been getting confusing the more I look into it. It seems to me that the way it was set up in the begining, each state had it's own military that was state funded. When needed, it came together to serve the nation as a whole. Somewhere that all changed and Im not too clear on the when and why's. Apperently, the Civil war had little to do about slavery. It would have been kind of nice to have learned about that in elementary school. Last but not least.....our police departments are federaly funded?????

[edit on 15-5-2005 by mrsdudara]

Originally posted by orionthehunter
As far as where our tax dollars go, they go to pay for social security for the elderly, for education, for the defense of everyone in this country, for research which leads to new jobs here in the US, and to pay all of our services we receive from the government such as police going after thieves and murderers.

You make it sound like federal $$ from income taxes are the chief monies used to pay for social security, police and education. Hah, nothing could be further from the truth.
www.nationalpriorities.org...

Out of one tax dollar, 4-cents goes for education.
By and large, state property taxes fund police, fire and schools. These taxes are usually levied by the municipality in which you live. All homeowners and property owners pay these taxes.

This same site also has breakdowns by state:
www.nationalpriorities.org...

Ok, this is why I wonder where the federal portion of our payroll taxes go.

There are 296,123,903 Americans. Lets say 1/4 of them work. Some make a little some make a lot, so we will say an average of $50,000 a year for each. Which is $12,500 per year per person and the companies they work for basicly have to match that. So lets say they get $25,000 per person per year. That comes to $1,850,774,375 a year. That is a low average concidering that people who make over $70,000 a year have to pay around 35% (people who make $200,000 per year pay approx $70,000per year and again the companies match that).

NOW that is just payroll, that is not even touching on what we have to pay on everything else. So, where is it going?