1997 Arizona Lights

This subject has already been concluded, it was flares dropped by the military. Although I agree with you one sac that it is a coinsidence that this happened around the same time there were a few other sitings. But drop the lights, there was nothing to it.

mission accomplished then

It is possible that the Phoenix lights were video taped earlier that day!

I'll say it again!



If this isn't a fake, then the flare theory has some serious flaws in it!



While I don't neccessarily jump to the conclusion that Rense does that this is proof positive that the Phoenix lights were not flares, it is very intriguing, as you would suspect for a television station to carry this story they would have verified that this was not a hoax, to as much a degree as possible.

But did you know that video footage was shot earlier that same day, in roughly the same location, of equally bright, glowing objects over Phoenix? While the military attempted to scrub the UFO story in the days following the event with claims of flares being dropped by nearby Luke Air Force Base, Jeff Willes, a Phoenix resident and UFO hunter, knew better. He had videotaped the same intensely bright objects hovering and maneuvering over Phoenix earlier that same day -- these were definitely not flares! (Jeff says that night he did indeed see flares, so he saw the two different lights and doesn't believe they are the same thing. His video more than proves this fact).

The Phoenix Lights - Visitors Came Earlier In Daylight

It is possible that the Phoenix lights were video taped earlier that day!

Actually, there IS a video (at least one) of the earlier sighting!
It's pretty amazing, and frankly, it isn't flares... It clearly shows a tight and symetrical triangle of lights, moving quickly, and perfectly equi-distant from each other. Needless to say, it's certainly given me a fresh look at the initial 8pm sightings....

While I have little doubt the second sighting is flares...the investigation into the first one, and similar type sightings is "illuminating" (pardon the pun)....

Eventually, I'll have all of this, and pics (I'm trying to find vid of that video online...I've got in a recorded tv documentary), in a mammoth Phoenix Lights thread.

I thought I was 3/4 through my research, but seems I'm barely halfway there... I'll have pics of the flare mapping/mountain ridge, all kinds of stuff...(and this time all hosted here, so months from now the pics will still be visible...).

I'm actually pretty excited about this project (much to my wife's consternation, hehe..), so I hope to have it up soon....

EDIT: Dug this out of mothballs, as I was going through all of the member threads in prep for my thread on this subject....but had to add this comment.

[edit on 8-9-2006 by Gazrok]

so if they were airplanes... why didn't the USAF use that conclusion instead of flares?

Originally posted by Gazrok
Canadian Snowbirds...was just a poor attempt at humor...

__________________________________________________________

Hehehe, then it must be known 'Snowbird' is the USAF code name for diversion - eh Gazrok. No Humor intended, well.. some I suppose.

Dallas

I live in Phoenix and despite having not seen the occasion or even knowing anyone who did. I think the videos show something very odd. I have not seen flares ever light up in such a sequenced order or in such carefully placed distance. I know there has been these stories here of a giant black triangle going all across arizona, but I think the witnesses to supposly seeing an actual craft are far less than the thousands who just witnessed the lights. I'm still on the fence on this one, Despite personally seeing other strange lights here in the valley I really wish I was taking the trash out at that time. A good site exposing Phoenix as a hot spot for ufo sightings (which I think most are legit) www.cnufos.com...

Well I hope you're doing a less biased write up then you did with Roswell... I know you put a lot of time and effort into it but I'm afraid you couldn't have used any less credible witnesses if you tried.

Actually, I discounted witnesses who were pretty much regarded as flakes, and whose testimony wasn't corraborated by others. If you call military officers, police officers, and even generals "less credible", well that is certainly your opinion to exercise....

I originally went into the Roswell case thinking I just might come out of it with the Mogul explanation...but the more I looked into it, the less plausible it became. One simple premise remains...to believe Mogul, you'd have to believe that a slew of witnesses could somehow mistake balsa wood and foil for some kind of otherworldly craft. That idea simply fails all logic.

As with Roswell though, I'll present what I find, and people can judge for themselves. I'm going into this case (Phoenix Lights) with already seeing the flare explanation (and agreeing with it) for the second case. Indeed, a special I just saw even featured video of such a flare exercise, and it looks EXACTLY like the second sighting.... However, I'm more interested in the first sightings, as they are not yet explained. Was it just people confusing the time? Was it more flare sightings? Maybe it was people seeing the 8 A-10's the National Guard claims dropped the flares?

(I'm writing up a thorough debunking of your timeline and cordon theory as we speak.)

I would love to have the actual flight records of the base, and not have to rely on testimony, but no computer logs in '47 sadly...and many of the records of the era have gone bye-bye....which certainly makes it difficult. I'll admit there are only a few witnesses to these, but we are talking about a rural area.

Don't forget Timothy Printy has done a VERY thorough job of collecting evidence and debunking the Phoenix Lights case including the earlier sightings…

MARCH 13, 1997: THE ARIZONA UFO's

P.S. Not sure but the video you're looking for may have been a hoax by Tom King. I can't vouch for this web site but perhaps you should check it out...

TOM KING EXPOSED AS A UFO FRAUD!

Thanks for the info. That name doesn't sound like the one I'm thinking of, but I'll certainly look into it. Thanks for the link! Upon looking at the link, I'm familiar with Timothy's work from other cases....thanks! He really does his homework on these.

EDIT: The footage I am talking about was made by Terry and Gail Procter. It clearly shows a moving V formation of lights (a nice V, not erratic like the flare event). It could of course be planes, the footage is at 8:28pm MST.

so if they were airplanes... why didn't the USAF use that conclusion instead of flares?

My comments on this case earlier in this thread were before I ever researched this. Those were years ago. Actually, it was the National Guard, not the Air Force, who claimed responsibility for the flares, dropped by A-10s as part of a night exercise.




[edit on 9-9-2006 by Gazrok]

The problem with the 'flare theory' is that in between each 'light', you can't see stars or sky, meaning something is connecting all the lights, or so witness accounts say.

The problem with the 'flare theory' is that in between each 'light', you can't see stars or sky, meaning something is connecting all the lights, or so witness accounts say.

Actually, bright lights would have the same effect. It is the same reason you can't see as many stars in the city, as you can out in the country.... The brighter light doesn't allow you to see the dimmer lights of the stars beyond.

Originally posted by Gazrok

The problem with the 'flare theory' is that in between each 'light', you can't see stars or sky, meaning something is connecting all the lights, or so witness accounts say.

Actually, bright lights would have the same effect. It is the same reason you can't see as many stars in the city, as you can out in the country.... The brighter light doesn't allow you to see the dimmer lights of the stars beyond.

Agreed. I'm just relaying what was said on a special I saw on TV about this evening.

They were interviewing a man and woman who claim this 'object' was over their house, and a few other houses as well (they claim a mile wide, wingspan, if you will). They said it was right over top of them, and when they looked up at it they couldn't see the sky in between the lights, which is why they feel it was a solid object.

But I do agree with what you said 100%, it's good logic, I just wanted to clear up where I heard that and why it was said.

Here were some of the lights caught on video earlier that evening caught on tape

and sent in to a news special. Find it very interesting that one of the supposed

flares moved away and disappeared. www.ufosoverphoenix.com...

Originally posted by mrmulder
Since I was unable to find a topic on the 1997 Arizona Lights on this forum I would like to ask everyone what their opinion is on the incident. After watching the video several times I still find it bizzare the way the lights line up like that in the sky. In my opinion it is either a row of UFO's or one large one. What is your opinion?

It could be only a giant UFO

In the last three weeks I'm start studying again some UFOs cases, the most "important" or, how I should say, the most controversial ones.
This '97 Arizona Lights is one of the most intersting for me, because there are so many clues and "proofs" that something really happen, even if that was nothing related with UFOs at all, but something occur.

I will try to take my notes about this case in particular and compare with yours and internet ones, in order to get more informations about this, just for personal curiosity.

Google tip !

add the site you want to search to the end of your query !

"phoenix lights" site:abovetopsecret.com


Results
1. www.abovetopsecret.com...

2. www.abovetopsecret.com...

3. www.abovetopsecret.com...

...

...

There probably were some flares, but if you dig a little, there was much more to it than that.

I would like to take a few minutes and explain a few misconceptions about this case. I prefer to use the title, "The Massive UFO Flyover of Arizona, March 13, 1997".

My name is Mike Fortson and my wife and I are 8:30 PM, MST witnesses from our former home in Chandler, AZ. My interviews, reports and missives can be found in the archives at the website theufochronicles.com.

Over the years (17) many television reports, documentaries, and writings have been made about this truly massive sighting. Most have no clue that this mass sighting was also witnessed in other states that night. Similar reports were made in Virginia, Iowa, Nebraska, New Mexico, Utah, Nevada, and in Mexico as well.

The problem I have had with producers is they won't provide you with the most accurate timeline available. They overlook the massive amount of reports and the known timeline in order to simplify the mass sighting. Producers claim they either don't have the time in their allowed production time and they choose not to confuse the viewer. So, they misstate known facts or don't report in their production and basically lie to the viewer.

Known facts not reported to viewer by any documentary would be retired airline captain Trig Johnston. His report confuses the timeline. Trig and his family are 10:20 PM witnesses from his horse property in the North Scottsdale/Cave Creek area. Trig's report can also be found at theufochronicles.com as well. Trig stated the interstellar craft he witnessed claimed, "I could have landed my 737 on the wing of that craft!" Also, producers have an issue with Trig's sighting because 60-70 miles to the south southwest a few minutes earlier were the video's of the intentional, diversionary flare drop. Also not reported would be Trig's reported message he received from the craft, "We are not a threat!" Captain Trig is not alone in the received messages from that night. There are at least 4 others throughout the state of Arizona who received some sort of telepathic message. Again, unreported by any media.

Another sighting report not revealed by any documentary would be the mass sighting at Sunset Point, just south of Crown King, AZ. This sighting was at 5:30 PM about 70 miles north of Phoenix. Here there were 16 filed reports from witnesses we saw 3 massive V shaped craft. Reports say, as 2 F-15 or F16 fighters approached from the south, the 3 V shaped craft "pancaked" on each other, formed a white ball of light, and completely vanished! All producers will tell you, "I cannot report that".

I have appeared in 7 documentaries such as, "Out of the Blue", "I Know What I Saw", "UFO's Seeing is Believing" hosted by the late Peter Jennings, 2 documentaries from Japan, Leslie Kean's, "UFO's: Secret Access", and Dr. Lynn Kitei's, "The Phoenix Lights Documentary".

I feel I am qualified to discuss in this group what I have learned.

The saddest part of this investigation would be the deaths of three of the most active people involved in the investigation, Richard Motzer, MUFONAZ, Michael Tanner, Village Labs, and Kevin Smith of the "Kevin Smith Show".

There is so much more. I await comments and or questions if you wish.

Many witnesses said it was one solid object.

reply to post by mrmulder



I think there have been several threads about this sighting on ATS. This ATS search engine is very not user friendly. But I digress. Look up the testimony of those who saw the "triangle" in the Phoenix area. This object travelled from Prescott (Pauldin) to Tucson. Too bad I was in Rocky Point partying like it was 1999! LOL!

Cheers...

Thank you so much for coming on this forum And explaining your sighting. I have always wondered why there was never any information from the Chandler sighting, and now I have a good idea of why. It is common knowledge now that there were two events, the one you saw And the flair show put on by the National Guard After dispatching two F15s. I first heard of the telepathic message Earlier this year, I think it was the episode of unexplained mysteries Or perhaps close encounters. Did you have any contact with either of those producers and or shows? Also, are there any other witnesses to "Pancake" event? That is something I had not heard. I haven't been on ATS long but I am learning so much already, and from some great sources.

a reply to: mikefortson

Whatever it was, it was huge. A mile or so wide? And it was more boomerang shaped than Triangle.

Do we really have something that large and with that specific design? (assuming its ours)