Charles Moore, Roswell Debunker's pet, had UFO Sighting!!!

Some may remember that Charles Moore, former engineer on Mogul, as the Skeptics' favorite pet when it comes to using Mogul to explain Roswell. I wonder how they then viewed Mr. Moore's own UFO sighting?

Here are the details....

April 24, 1949
3 miles N of Arrey, N.M. [50 miles west of White Sands] , 10:30 a.m.
[Project Blue Book unknown ]

--General Mills/Mogul balloon expert Charles B. Moore, while tracking a test balloon with a theodolite, made important UFO sighting with 4 Navy technicians, (Akers, Davidson, Fitzsimmons, Moorman). After tracking it across the sky, the whitish-silver, elliptical object, roughly 100 by 40 feet, disappeared in a sharp climb, calculated at 18,000 to 25,000 mph [5-7 miles/sec] , at an altitude estimated at 60 miles. At one point the UFO climbed about 25 miles in only 10 sec [or about 80 G's acceleration!!]. The object left no trail and was observed for about 1 minute. Moore still believes it was not a conventional object. In 1986, responding to a question posed to him about Dr. Donald Menzel's debunking of the sighting as a mirage of their own balloon, Moore wrote, "What I saw was not a mirage; it was a craft with highly unusual performance. It was not a balloon; at the time we were the innovators and manufacturers of the new balloons and I certainly would have known about any new developments as I was newly in charge of General Mill's Balloon operations. It was not the X-1 that was in its hangar at Muroc [Edwards AFB, California] that Sunday. It was nothing from White Sands nor from Alamogordo. ...We were in contact with Range Control and were informed our operation was the only one active on Sunday. For these reasons I am cynical about Dr. Menzel and his approach to science." According to Dr. Allen Hynek, Moore also told him he was "disgusted" with the Air Force for its lack of attention to the sighting.

[Cmdr. Robert McLaughlin, in charge of the guided missile program at White Sands, later wrote an explosive article about the incident in TRUE Magazine, March 1950, stating it was a space-craft from another planet guided by intelligent beings. Sighting detailed in Cmdr. McLaughlin's letter to Dr. James van Allen (also mentions McLaughlin's own saucer sighting during a V-2 launch around May 10, 1949, and astronomer Clyde Tombaugh detecting an explosion on Mars in 1941). Moore quote in Dr. Bruce Maccabee's article "Still in Default." Full sighting report by Moore sent to CIA (Fawcett/Greenwood, The UFO Coverup); reprinted in Richard Hall, "Uninvited Guests". Cited in 8/14/52 CIA study and LIFE Magazine, 4/7/52; Ruppelt, Ch. 6, pp.70-71; Hynek, Ch. 5; ]

roswellproof.homestead.com...

[edit on 11-5-2005 by Gazrok]

WOW! Did any Roswell researchers ever interview this guy, or did they just go on his Mogul statements and figure he had nothing more to offer? It seems like he found out what it's like on the other side of disinformation and might be willing to share some real info now. Is he even alive still?

Doubt it, he was an engineer in 1947, but possibly....he'd be in the late 80's, early 90's range more likely than not....

Wasn't Klass the main debunker for Roswell? I just ordered one of his books to see his side. I also briefly saw that he and Stanton Frideman actually debated on TV back in the 80's. I would love to see that. Anyone know about this?

Klass is pretty much the main debunker for EVERYTHING in UFOlogy, hehe... For the most part, many investigations are sound though, and serve as a great way to see what the other side's take on a case is. He has a tendency to overlook facts not fitting into his idea though, and often fails to address key points if based on witness testimony, even in cases of multiple witnesses.

I remember the debate somewhat, long time ago though.... I think Friedman mentions it on his site as well, would have to check.

If you go to Klass' site (csicop.org), you'll see that Moore is the chief one used by Klass to espouse the Mogul explanation for Roswell.



[edit on 11-5-2005 by Gazrok]

Originally posted by Hal9000
Wasn't Klass the main debunker for Roswell? I just ordered one of his books to see his side. I also briefly saw that he and Stanton Frideman actually debated on TV back in the 80's. I would love to see that. Anyone know about this?

Maybe this is it(don't know if it was viewed on TV though)?

Stan has successfully taken on many critics of flying saucers, Roswell, Majestic 12, including winning a debate at Oxford University.

That sure sounds like it... I remember it was at a college, but then, most debates are....

Originally posted by Gazrok
He has a tendency to overlook facts not fitting into his idea though, and often fails to address key points if based on witness testimony, even in cases of multiple witnesses.

I noticed that, when looking into JAL Flight 1628, Klass said the pilot saw "ice crystals" in the clouds. I would like to see evidence of this before accepting it, but it doesn't work that way I guess.

Originally posted by Gazrok
I remember the debate somewhat, long time ago though.... I think Friedman mentions it on his site as well, would have to check.

Thanks, I checked Stanton's site and he has a video of a debate called: L. Debate "Are Flying Saucers Real?" Video 2 Hrs. Friedman vs. McGaha, Middle Tennessee State University, Jan. 28, 2004. But none against Klass.

Originally posted by Phood
Maybe this is it(don't know if it was viewed on TV though)?

Stan has successfully taken on many critics of flying saucers, Roswell, Majestic 12, including winning a debate at Oxford University.

Maybe it wasn't on TV, I'm thinking I saw it in a documentary, I'll find it somewhere. Thanks.

It seems that Stan and Phil have debated a few times...but the particulars are never given... I know I've seen it before, they were in front of a blue/purple (same to me really) curtain, etc.

Philip Klass IMHO has done more to wreck the serious investigation of UFO phenomena than anyone, with the possible exception of Billy Meier

This guy really burns me up

Klass is to skeptics what the Pope is to Christians.

He is the king of the Debunkers!

This is clearly evident by his treatment of the MJ12 documents. Klass is chooled in aeronautical engineering, not military documentation, but yet he gets away with debunking the whole lot of the MJ12 documentation solely because of some obtuse typographical issues!

I remember one particular TV program in which some pilots claimed to have seen some very strange things. Klass says "It was probably a bolide."

Thanks for your help Mr. Klass, case solved!, We couldn't have done it without you.

edit grammatical errors.





[edit on 5/11/05 by Divergence]

Klass has the same debunking style that Hynek had when he was on the other side... The difference is that Hynek finally started actually looking at the evidence and reached conclusions based on all of the evidence, instead of just the pieces that fit with his personal ideas, which is what Klass has done repeatedly (or simply substituted a guess for evidence). It could have been this, or could have been that...etc.

An example of this style of debunking is on csicop's page regarding the Hill case, where Klass and cronies ASSUME that the Hills saw an Outer Limits episode or ASSUME that they saw some Japanese sci-fi import film, etc. etc. and USE such assumptions as evidence to try and weigh against radar contacts, an uncanny starmap, and the opinion of one of the most accredited psychiatrists ever in the field...

Link to new thread to discuss Klass in a little more detail

Edit: added link

[edit on 5/12/05 by Divergence]

[edit on 5/12/05 by Divergence]

Nor is that the only such indication. There's a lot out there to suggest Klass may be a complete disinfo agent. It'd probably make a pretty decent post topic if someone wanted to beat me to it....

Hello everyone;

I'm a Klass hater. I guess I'm known to attack the debunkers with my cartoon sarcasm. Klass was the top ass of his class. I call him the Archie Bunker Debunker. Don't know if I belong here but I guess I don't know if I belong anywhere.

Would this video be relevant to this topic thread?

www.youtube.com.../u/0/LwlPP45J5GY

I just put it out on YouTube. Stephen Basset liked my last video but this one might be just too over the edge.

Regards,
SoMany?s