No reason for africa to have no water.

I find it pathetic that thousands of people in 3rd world countries are dying needlessly,

take dehydration for example,

How much....would you say it takes to build a water well pump (the fountain type pump with the handle you pull up and down)

£50???......$50???? (yea i no there not equivelant)

Including the mud filter (£7 is the best permanent filter i have found so far),

and to drill to water underground (rent of a drill - remember you can rent the drill once and drill MANY holes in one day - around......£40 - 55? and remember things are cheap in africa)

So to make, ship and fit a water pump in say 30 towns (a full days work to fit them) would cost around £1755! (approx! change if otherwise)

Not even a bump in the road for most countries........

60 towns with one pump each (remember there are many small towns) - £3510

240 towns??? - £14040

i rest my case. (mods move where apropriate if you want)

[edit on 10-5-2005 by Shadow88]

I think you're underestimating the costs of drilling wells and the time it takes to drill them.

I don't think you can do thirty in one day with a single drill.

Ours took about three days if I remember correctly.
It wasn't done using something cheap either, it was a rig like one in the picture below.

www.sunmachinery.com...

The well cost around $4,000 I think but that was with a pressure tank and electric pump.

I know what you're thinking of will be smaller and simpler but I still think it'll cost more than your estimate and take a lot longer. Remember than in many places you'll have to go down more than 100 feet and that hole has to be cased.


[edit on 10-5-2005 by AceOfBase]

You say "there is absolutely no reason..."

Yes, there is a perfectly sound reason. The African continent's third world countries are either being governed by corrupt individuals who never send the aide on down the pike to drill a water well, or there is no governing body whatsoever because of tribal clashes - which for some reason seem to be much more important than basic human needs.

I'm sorry, but your attempt to place this on the other countries of the world doesn't hold up. Aide is sent to these areas - for decades and decades now. Short of going in and taking them over to ensure the money gets applied to the people instead of the corrupt leaders, I don't see what else can be done.

[edit on 5-10-2005 by Valhall]

the cost is soley reliant upon how deep down the water table/aquifer is. Hitting an aquifer 6m down is a hell of alot cheaper than trying to reach one 20m down. And if the rest of the world is like the UK the water table and levels of aquifers aren't uniform across the country.

Definition of an Aquifer:
A formation, group of formations, or part of a formation that contains sufficient saturated, permeable material to yield significant quantities of water to wells and springs.

[edit on 10/5/05 by Creative_Seeker]

I checked a couple of sites and the cost per well is indeed much higher than you estimated.

US AID
Sixteen countries have reported data on well development activities expected
during FY 2005 (Table 2), with a total of 2,588 wells expected to be developed
between October 1, 2004 and September 30, 2005. The average estimated cost per well is $4,230, and includes boreholes, dug wells, developed springs, and improved technology traditional wells.

www.lifewater.ca...

We complete wells by building a concrete pump pad and installing a Bush Handpump.

Chlorine is used to Disinfect Wells and then water test kits are used to confirm that water is safe to Drink.

Lifewater drill teams in Liberia and Nigeria have drilled over 100 wells.

The average cost of a well and handpump is $2,000

Each well typically serves 500 people.

At those costs, it would be closer to $120,000 - $240,000 to put one well per town in 60 towns.

[edit on 10-5-2005 by AceOfBase]

Ok firstly my first post came off massively as a loud rant (i had to go out so i didnt have time to edit it so it would sound less arsy!), when i was really i was asking for YOUR thoughts and facts on the topic.

secondly...now that you've post i think it is UTTERLY UTTERLY disgraceful that they have costed it to that much.

Each well typically serves 500 people.

This is correct.

However my uncle (engineer, metal worker etc.) thinks it is a joke how much it costs the government to put well pumps in. He obtained the specs for the pump itself, and got a quote for shipping costs (to ship in bulk) etc.

Drilling costs, most surprisingly, should not be that high. He calculated that, In the overall long term, it would be cheaper to go over there, buy his own drill (for the bore holes) drill them himself (for no cost!) than they do it now.

AceOfBase yea the estimate drilling time is the minimum version (lets say if ALL the dilling was to say 8m, as was stated some are 25m down so that would take longer)

The money they spend now is a waste of what they could be spending on it. But im not trying to convince you or anything. im merely pointing out something i find wrong.

Originally posted by Creative_Seeker
the cost is soley reliant upon how deep down the water table/aquifer is. Hitting an aquifer 6m down is a hell of alot cheaper than trying to reach one 20m down.

Yes. In North Africa, it's not uncommon to have it way deeper than this.

I work in the water industry as a consulting engineer, now, for any holes needed up to 6m deep and no more than 0.6m in diameter you can use a tripod rig with a hand powered borer. But anything deeper than that of of a larger diameter you need something called an Auger borer. Which also varies greatly with the ground conditions (you need considerably different 'drill bits' for rock than you do for soil) so just maintaining and using one drill isn't really an option unless you select your sites very carefully.

Now as someone mentioned above, the profit factor is quite a large portion of the money too, if it was possible to find a kind hearted contractor and a gang that'd be willing to work for next to nothing then it would be possible to drill to these depths relativly cheaply.

Mechanical pumps should be avoided were possible in the third world wherever possible, harsh conditions and a lack of technical knowledge and the necessary materials and tools takes its toll on machines in general. but there isnt any reason why hand pumps shouldn't work, again, depends on the depth to the water level though.

*edit* almost forgot, dont forget it isnt just a case of drilling a hole, you need a capping layer of concrete and casing to ensure the sides dont cave in and block the well. You also need some kind of pathogen/detritis barrier to stop contamination.

[edit on 10/5/05 by Creative_Seeker]

They should use wind turbines to power the water pumps, they last for 30+ years and the new designs only require maitnence once a year.

maybe you can appeal to north lorea, iran and syria for help, I'm sure they would break out the check book.....

This is ridicolous, Shadow88, there IS water in Africa but it mostly contaminated because of many reasons, then, drilling a hole to get water is EXTREMELY expensive, that is because you live in the US or Europe and believe that the world follows those prizes. I live in South America and building a watering hole is extremely expensive and not very reliable, because you may not find water in the hole you made and maybe the water you find is contaminated. ANd remember that most of the empoverished people that live in africa earn less than 2 dollars a day. So here I rest my case.
stop being so ignorant about the world, you people believe the world is just like the US or Europe

Regardless of ignorance, it is well-intentioned. Supplying basic necessities to third world countries is difficult, but not as impossible as you seem to make it out to be.

I think the biggest issue is transportation. There aren't necessarily airports or roads, so shipping personnel and materials is risky and slow.

Originally posted by LostInAMelody
This is ridicolous, Shadow88, there IS water in Africa but it mostly contaminated because of many reasons, then, drilling a hole to get water is EXTREMELY expensive, that is because you live in the US or Europe and believe that the world follows those prizes. I live in South America and building a watering hole is extremely expensive and not very reliable, because you may not find water in the hole you made and maybe the water you find is contaminated. ANd remember that most of the empoverished people that live in africa earn less than 2 dollars a day. So here I rest my case.

stop being so ignorant about the world, you people believe the world is just like the US or Europe

Most of my water work has been in the 3rd world and most recently Sri Lanka so get off your soap box, people aren't as ignorant as you think.

I should point out that there is not water under every single spot on the Earth.

Water travels in pourous layers of rock, and if all you've got below you is granite and basalt then it doesn't matter how far down you drill, you will never EVER strike water.

You have to hit one of the big "underground streams" in order to get a viable well.

Hmmmm......maybe i should start a business venture........maybe then i could PROVE i could solve this problem better amonst others rather than just talk about it.....

Ok then! so how does one go about LOCATING the water...by sonar? ultrasound???

CHEERS GUYS!

[edit on 11-5-2005 by Shadow88]

World Bank has loaned hundreds of millions of dollars to various African nations to help improve their infrastructure from gas lines, to electric grids, and even water wells and new irrigation systems in Sub-Saharan Africa. The problem lies in that these are underdeveloped countries with no real revenue system to pay back the loans within the next 5-10 years, so many banks have to make smaller loans than would be preferred. This is also do in part to the fact that everyother nation on the continent is run by a corrupt government of sorts. Up until about 10 years ago, the so called jewel of Africa, South Africa, still practiced apartheid. Not likely any bank would lend more than what World Bank is doing: The World Bank has invested some $20 billion in water projects in East Asia, South Asia, Latin America and Africa.

web.worldbank.org...:20019725~menuPK:34459~pagePK:34370~piPK:34424~theSitePK:4607,00.html

You know what it is just plain sad to see this happening, the world bank lend money so that a country that is corrupt to the bone can get in more debt when it was the western world that put them in debt.

Drop the debt, get the rich families out of the stocks (That own 80%) and diamond mines.

The World Bank has invested some $20 billion in water projects in East Asia, South Asia, Latin America and Africa.

www.usatoday.com...
The Pentagon is spending nearly $5 billion per month in Iraq and Afghanistan, a pace that would bring yearly costs to almost $60 billion. Those expenses do not include money being spent on rebuilding Iraq's electric grid, water supply and other infrastructure, costs which had no parallel in Vietnam.

Shut up, Shut up, shut up!!!!!! 20 billion is pathetic compared to the annual 60 billion (If not more) the US spend on $hit it don't need to including illegal wars! Considering it was western world that put the 3rd world into debt.

Also considering that Africa has one of if not the biggest diamond mines in the world it is just stupidity to say they cannot look after themselves and pay for food and water etc.

The Federal reserve, The bank of England, The World bank are all as bad as each other when it comes to helping others they are private organizations that play chess with people. You really think these orgz can do good things when the money they produce comes from thin air and a few printing presses.

www.southafrica-travel.net...
The development of the South African diamond industry is inseparably linked to the rise of the De Beers empire. It was the young Cecil Rhodes who founded the De Beers mining company in Kimberley in 1888. He named it after the original owners of the Zandfontein farm. Rhodes was fought intensely against competing owners of other mines, and by the end of 1889 he had the South African diamond industry under his control. At that time the quantity of diamonds produced could be manipulated and the price kept to a profitable level. But with the discovery of new resources near Pretoria and in South-West Africa (Namibia) the predominance of De Beers was broken. Ernest Oppenheimer, an immigrant from Germany, with his Consolidated Diamond Mines (CDM), founded in 1919, became the leader in the field. In 1929, Oppenheimer also became president of the De Beers group and eventually united both companies in a cartel.

This is morally wrong and inhumane and should not continue but us little people will sit back and let it happen until enough of us actually take a stand and say WTF is going on!!!

So in reality there is NO reason for Africa to be in debt at all!!!

[edit on 11/5/05 by Hunting Veritas]

[edit on 11/5/05 by Hunting Veritas]

[edit on 11/5/05 by Hunting Veritas]

For what is’ worth, starting about 30 years ago, they started installing tube wells all over parts of India and Bangladesh. That was great. For the first time people had a reliable source of water.

Unfortunately after a while something strange started to happen. the arsenic levels in the wells started to climb.

Most of these wells are badly contaminated now.
web.mit.edu...


In fact, arsenic contaminated drinking water is a major health problem in this part of the world now.

I disagree Howard. Many of these third world countries which you speak of were all ready just that before westerners had a hand. In fact, if anything, western colonization has given a better life to tens of millions across the world today. If not for the whites, much more of the world would live in mud huts with no running water, no one to feed them, no electricity or gas, or even metal thechnology. You talk about us little people sitting back and not doing anything about it. But what the people directly effected doing about it? Simple fact is that if these countries don't like what we've done to them, then they can by all means revert back to the way they once were...

And I wonder why they are not.

Originally posted by Frosty
I disagree Howard.

You disagree with what? I just posted some information about the fact that many recently drilled wells in Bangladesh and India are contaminated by arsenic, and that it is considered a major health issue.

Do you disagree with that?

Many of these third world countries which you speak of were all ready just that before westerners had a hand. In fact, if anything, western colonization has given a better life to tens of millions across the world today. If not for the whites, much more of the world would live in mud huts with no running water, no one to feed them, no electricity or gas, or even metal thechnology. You talk about us little people sitting back and not doing anything about it. But what the people directly effected doing about it? Simple fact is that if these countries don't like what we've done to them, then they can by all means revert back to the way they once were...

And I wonder why they are not.

That post reminds me of Jack Nicholson sitting at the bar in the Overlook Hotel, ruminating about the “white man’s burden.”