SCI/TECH: Significant Weakening Of Gulf Stream Detected

The problem with the hurricanes is that I would expect this disruption in the climate to create abnormally large troughs on a regular basis. These will tend to turn away and destroy tropical storms before they had a chance to approach the east coast of the US. If that doesn't happen then you'd be faced with a mess like they have in the western Pacific where the hurricane season never ends.

Stronger tornados would seem to be likely. It is my belief that sheer in a storm isn't needed to start a column of air rotating. I think that is the mistake in the theory of how they form. I think the sheer is needed to evacuate the air from the storm to allow the air drawn in to the tornado to escape. Much like the way a hurricane needs the anti-cyclonic rotation aloft to evacuate the air that is brought in to the storm. As the battle between the warm air to the south and the cold air to the north grew stronger I'd expect the opportunity for stronger sheer to be greater as well. You will see more super outbreaks of tornados and more large scale storms. I would also expect to see the first F6 in the next 10 years.

I learned something new. I didn't realize there was such a thing as a F6 tornado. An F5 is a tornado with wind speeds from 261 to 318 mph. An F6 is a tornado with wind speeds from 319 to 379 mph.
www.tornadoproject.com...

I've seen tornado damage that took a large tubular steel frame tower that was said to be able to withstand winds up to 300 mph and twist it around and stick the top into the ground as if it was a twisty. I've also seen where train box cars weighing I believe many tons were blown about 25 feet off the railroad track. I don't know what kind of wind speed or storm it takes to pull that off but it seems like it must be close to an F6.

I guess storm chasers will be busy with all these super storms coming due to the expected climate change. That is if no future reports state that this condition with the gulf stream is only temporary or not true.


[edit on 9-5-2005 by orionthehunter]

Originally posted by Indy

Astronomer...This particular article validates the failing sinking mechanism. The reality is the current is almost gone.

Tks Indy.

I'm somewhat familiar with the thermo-haline incline. What I meaant to ask was whether other groups had measured the slowing of the current and agreed on the magnitude of that slowing.

About 6-8 months ago (I think), DoD published an unclassified study on the potential effects that could be triggered by a failure of the Atlantic Conveyor. They went to some length to label the study as more speculation than fact, but the potential ramifications of a failure of the Atlantic Conveyor are staggering. I did not keep a copy of the study and I don't remember the correct link to get it, but perhaps someone else can provide that information.

The Fujita scale actually goes to F20 which is the speed of sound. However only F0 to F5 ever get used because it was theorized that the top F5 speed was the maximum wind speed the atmosphere could sustain. So far that theory has held up. But barely. In 1999 the Oklahoma City tornado missed the F6 ranking by a mile or two. Back in the early 70's the Xena Ohio tornado nearly got classified an F6 as well. These are the only two cases I know of where the storms have come close. The Xena storm was basically a guess by the NWS. The OKC storm was verified by dopler radar.

Astronomer... I had seen a number of stories about the current weakening. This was the first one I had seen that went into detail about the columns of sinking water vanishing. This is far more detail than any other report before it. Unfortunately I don't expect to find too many reports to confirm or deny what was in this one because of the need to use a submarine to verify the results. This is unlike dealing with the current directly where surface observations can be taken.

Originally posted by Astronomer68

About 6-8 months ago (I think), DoD published an unclassified study on the potential effects that could be triggered by a failure of the Atlantic Conveyor.
...
I did not keep a copy of the study and I don't remember the correct link to get it, but perhaps someone else can provide that information.

Is this the study? I just did a real quick search and got a pdf file link.
www.ems.org...

Originally posted by orionthehunter

Originally posted by Astronomer68

About 6-8 months ago (I think), DoD published an unclassified study on the potential effects that could be triggered by a failure of the Atlantic Conveyor.
...
I did not keep a copy of the study and I don't remember the correct link to get it, but perhaps someone else can provide that information.

Is this the study? I just did a real quick search and got a pdf file link.
www.ems.org...

That is the study I was referring to.

Originally posted by Indy
Astronomer... I had seen a number of stories about the current weakening. This was the first one I had seen that went into detail about the columns of sinking water vanishing. This is far more detail than any other report before it. Unfortunately I don't expect to find too many reports to confirm or deny what was in this one because of the need to use a submarine to verify the results. This is unlike dealing with the current directly where surface observations can be taken.

Tks again indy, I didn't realize they used a submarine. This study should have a follow-up done. The subject is important enough for the Navy to use several submarines if needed.

i still remember almost a year ago, that gazz and I were presenting evidence about this, yet very few people believed it no matter what evidence we provided. Now i don't think there is anyone that can claim this is not happening.

As some people in here have said, unfortunately there is nothing we can do to stop it. The reason why i have presented this evidence in the past is that maybe some people may take some advice and be prepared for what is coming. Down here in Florida we prepare for hurricanes, people should be prepared for what the climate change we are gong through is going to bring.

Have a contingency plan with relatives or friends living in other states, if anything happens in your city/state you can move with those relatives or friends. Some might claim this is fear mongering, but it is not. The evidence is clear, these changes are occurring right now, and they will only become worse.

Having a contingency plan to move out of your city/state in short notice is not fear mongering, it is sound advice in light to what is happening.

[edit on 9-5-2005 by Muaddib]

Originally posted by Astronomer68

Tks again indy, I didn't realize they used a submarine. This study should have a follow-up done. The subject is important enough for the Navy to use several submarines if needed.

The Navy already has a plan to guard the new sea that it is believed will be formed in the Arctic by the year 2015. That should tell you how soon this is going to happen.

Arctic Summer Sea Lanes Open
By 2015 Forecasts ONR
Washington - Feb 14, 2002

The Arctic ice cap is shrinking that much is known with certainty. Over the past century, the extent of the winter pack ice in the Nordic Seas has decreased by about 25%. Last winter the Bering Sea was effectively ice-free, which is unprecedented, and if this big melt continues, some say the formerly ice-locked Arctic will have open sea lanes as soon as 2015. By 2050, the summertime ice cap could disappear entirely.

Excerpted from.
www.spacedaily.com...

This means that sea levels will rise by 2015, even if it raises by a couple of feet only it would mean many low laying areas will be inundated. That's one of the effects of global warming.


[edit on 9-5-2005 by Muaddib]

Originally posted by Muaddib

The Navy already has a plan to guard the new sea that it is believed will be formed in the Arctic by the year 2015. That should tell you how soon this is going to happen.

Arctic Summer Sea Lanes Open
By 2015 Forecasts ONR
Washington - Feb 14, 2002

The Arctic ice cap is shrinking that much is known with certainty. Over the past century, the extent of the winter pack ice in the Nordic Seas has decreased by about 25%. Last winter the Bering Sea was effectively ice-free, which is unprecedented, and if this big melt continues, some say the formerly ice-locked Arctic will have open sea lanes as soon as 2015. By 2050, the summertime ice cap could disappear entirely.

www.spacedaily.com...

[edit on 9-5-2005 by Muaddib]

I didn't know planning had advanced that far -- tks. If you haven't read that study Orion found for me you should.

You know, there don't seem to be a hell of a lot of us discussing this topic and there should be. This is the single most significant post I have seen on this site since I joined it.

I'll be the CIA and others have done some real mind blowing studies on the collapse of the Atlantic Conveyor. I'de sure like to read them.

Originally posted by Muaddib

Originally posted by Astronomer68

Tks again indy, I didn't realize they used a submarine. This study should have a follow-up done. The subject is important enough for the Navy to use several submarines if needed.

The Navy already has a plan to guard the new sea that it is believed will be formed in the Arctic by the year 2015. That should tell you how soon this is going to happen.

Arctic Summer Sea Lanes Open
By 2015 Forecasts ONR
Washington - Feb 14, 2002

The Arctic ice cap is shrinking that much is known with certainty. Over the past century, the extent of the winter pack ice in the Nordic Seas has decreased by about 25%. Last winter the Bering Sea was effectively ice-free, which is unprecedented, and if this big melt continues, some say the formerly ice-locked Arctic will have open sea lanes as soon as 2015. By 2050, the summertime ice cap could disappear entirely.

Excerpted from.
www.spacedaily.com...

This means that sea levels will rise by 2015, even if it raises by a couple of feet only it would mean many low laying areas will be inundated. That's one of the effects of global warming.


[edit on 9-5-2005 by Muaddib]

The Arctic is essentially one giant iceberg so its melting would not contribute to higher sea levels. The melt of the glaciers from the surrounding land i.e. Greenland would have a significant effect on sea levels as would any melting in the antarctic.

The military analysis report submitted to bush near the end of his last term, told exactly this. Why no one listened is amazing...
OH yeah...
because Art bell started talking about it, everyone must have thought..."what a fruit loop" and not taken it seriously...

start stocking long preservable food stuffs now, becuase the food shortages will last several years, until new agriculture areas are established... Start a chicken farm, for meat... and keep up with changing weather trends...

for instance... England recently was astounded to have a destructive tornado form in a part of britain that has never had one before...

the chaos is starting... the sky is falling, the sky is falling... except this time, it really is...

carefully consider how a torential rain or mudflow will affect the elevation that you live at, and also consider the effects of colder than normal weather in your area.
And if you live in britain... get a really warm coat... you will need it... and a really good snow shovel...

The ONE point that is stiking me as most disturbing about the causes of the current's failure is desalinization.

I have read articles recently on the net about Antarctic glaciers melting. Of course this is nothing new except for the fact that scientists are now CONCERNED about it. And not just Antarctica, there has been mention of many frozen areas thawing out, so to speak. Yes, global warming doesn't help, but I think all of this fresh water introducing itself into the oceans could be the key to the destabilization.

I remembering hearing on the news awhile back about TORNADOES IN LA. That one really perked my ears up...

Originally posted by malcr
The Arctic is essentially one giant iceberg so its melting would not contribute to higher sea levels. The melt of the glaciers from the surrounding land i.e. Greenland would have a significant effect on sea levels as would any melting in the antarctic.

Yes, you are right, i did not specify what i meant.

Originally posted by LazarusTheLong
England recently was astounded to have a destructive tornado form in a part of britain that has never had one before

Do you have a copy of the news story on this? I'd love to read it. I remember seeing a picture of a tornado in Berlin last year.

BTW... learn to love canned tuna and Spam. yuk.

There is no question that as this situation 'matures' the weather will be adversely effected; however, bear in mind that this will still take a few years time. Furthermore, this country is capable of absorbing/responding to most of the changes that will occur (providing they follow the model scripts). Many other countries though could be devastated fairly rapidly. I suggest you get ready to welcome a lot of new Canadien & Mexican neighbors, because both countries will fare much worse than us.

Another thought -- Buy real property in a decent location now before the price goes way up.

[edit on 9-5-2005 by Astronomer68]

Actually if anything we should be prepared to live in Mexico. We are as vulnerable as anyone else. Our growing seasons are on thin ice (no pun intended) as it is. The U.S. could be faced with massive crop failures in a hurry and we will end up depending on Mexican imports. Much of our wheat belt and corn belt will be vulnerable to freezes and the certain failure.

You could be right Indy, but the models I've seen show the south heating up as the north cools down. This could lead to some really massive storms because of the growing temperature differences. We both know that kind of scenario can't possibly last. Equilibrium of sorts will be achieved in the long run, but how long will that take? Of course the models are probably only gross approximations of what will really happen.

Can't you just imagine Earth's own version of the Great Red Spot centered somehere in the Western Atlantic?

[edit on 9-5-2005 by Astronomer68]