why people drive large vehicles.

Open. What you are saying is insulting to me and my intelligence.

I agree that rap/pop culture might drive the sales of luxury SUV's, but it is ridiculous to include the majority of SUV owners in this category.

Blazers, Jimmys, Broncos and Explorers were not popularized by "rap music culture". How many rap videos do you see with people driving late 90's 2-door Blazers?

SUV's have been around for a long time. If someone thinks an SUV is safer than a Civic, that is not protecting themselves from SUV drivers, that is common sense. Even if more SUV's were not on the road today, there are still massive amounts of large deisel semis and box trucks on the road, that have been there for decades.

Really though, I hate to defend the Bush administration but your article states that the law giving small businesses a better write off on vehicles was signed in 1996. The article also mentions that the write off was intended for businesses that actually have a use for such vehicles, hardly a conspiracy to make everyone buy a SUV.

Also your article states that. . .

After Sept. 10, 2004, the luxury-car write-off will revert to $3,060.

Looks like it doesn't even exist anymore.

Even if it did, the only motorcycle that would be more expensive would be a high end harley or a custom.



I hear a lot of complaining about the fuel economy and pollution levels of SUVs. Maybe you haven't noticed but we are all still driving gasoline burning, polluting vehicles. Unless you have a hybrid you are deluding yourself if you think that you somehow making a difference.



www.ucsusa.org...


edit to add link.



[edit on 21-5-2005 by LeftBehind]

Soon when its hip to be a hippy again, I bet we will all drive short busses to transport 8 kids to school one block away. It would be better to get an old station wagon and plop in a new style 180HP diesel.

The engineers who make tiny cars do it for 2 reasons, gas will get alot more costly and it saves ALOT of gas. If you double the weight of a car, you need four times the power/gas to get the same acceleration/speed as you did before you doubled the weight. 1000lbs-100HP engine 0-60 in 10 seconds, 2000lbs-400HP engine 0-60 in 10 seconds --- (just an example).

At least 18-wheelers can detach from the cargo unit.

I just returned from a 2 week visit to see my Brother and his folks in North Carolina and Tennessee. I still find it amazing that diesel engined cars are such a rarity on US roads, in fact there seems to be a "diesel is for trucks" attitude among many in the USA.
My own car has a 1.9 Litre TDi engine mated to a 6 speed manual gearbox and, driven sensibly, will enable me to go 600 miles on a full 55 Litre tank.
It's powerful too, if I sometimes have my "sporty" head on
The downside is that, as diesel cars have become more popular in the UK due to the inherent fuel economy, so the price of diesel has invreased and it's now more expensive than petrol. This is of course just blatant profiteering by government and the suppliers. On one hand the government heralds initiatives to champion fuel economy and conservation then, as cars become more economical, they increase the costs of fuel and vehicle taxation.
Of course, the more fuel we use (or are encouraged to use in HUGE 4X4's and SUV's), the bigger the profits to the oil companies. But, I'm sure they have no influence at all over our leaders....no way......no sirreebob...... that would be just plain ridiculous to think that

Originally posted by LeftBehind
Open. What you are saying is insulting to me and my intelligence.

I agree that rap/pop culture might drive the sales of luxury SUV's, but it is ridiculous to include the majority of SUV owners in this category.

I'm talking about the SUV craze. Notice I put it in numerical order. No where did I say all current SUV owners are Hip Hop fans. I said the SUV craze was first started by rappers, then the 2nd phase was hip hop fans copying them. The current phase is a result of Bush & Republicans forcing Americans to buy SUVs.

Originally posted by LeftBehind
Blazers, Jimmys, Broncos and Explorers were not popularized by "rap music culture". How many rap videos do you see with people driving late 90's 2-door Blazers?

Blazers, and Jimmys were around for decades. There was no SUV craze back then. I'm not talking about SUV sales. I'm talking about the SUV craze. It litterally seems as if 75% of all vehicles on the road are now SUVs! LOL!

Originally posted by LeftBehind
SUV's have been around for a long time. If someone thinks an SUV is safer than a Civic, that is not protecting themselves from SUV drivers, that is common sense. Even if more SUV's were not on the road today, there are still massive amounts of large deisel semis and box trucks on the road, that have been there for decades.

Back in the 1970's and 80's, there were far, far, far, less SUVs on the road. Also, the SUVs that were on the road were far, far, far, smaller! A Jimmy and Blazer are roughly the size of a van. Or even a car from the 1950's and 60's.

Tractor trailors, and box trucks, etc... cannot go to the same places as SUVs. In many states only certain times are trucks allowed on the highway. Sometimes only in certain lanes. There's even many roads, bridges, that don't allow trucks on them!

Originally posted by LeftBehind
Really though, I hate to defend the Bush administration but your article states that the law giving small businesses a better write off on vehicles was signed in 1996. The article also mentions that the write off was intended for businesses that actually have a use for such vehicles, hardly a conspiracy to make everyone buy a SUV.

Now look up the definition of a "small buisness".
Anyone can claim they have a need to use a SUV! LOL! That's what accountants get paid for. Read every single word in the articles I linked to. It might take 1-3 hours, but it's all worth reading. They even answer this point you bring up. And how they define small buisness. And how anyone can claim they need to drive an SUV and end up saving 2,000 to 14,000 bucks!!!!!

Originally posted by LeftBehind
Also your article states that. . .

After Sept. 10, 2004, the luxury-car write-off will revert to $3,060.

Looks like it doesn't even exist anymore.

No you've proven yourself wrong LOL! SUVs aren't classified as luxury-cars. Anyone can be technical with that word. Rolls Royce? Mercedes Benze? Ferrarri? Those are cars. No way around it. A Navigator? An Excursion? A Hummer? To call it a "car"?

Originally posted by LeftBehind
Even if it did, the only motorcycle that would be more expensive would be a high end harley or a custom.

A brand new Jap bike, with tax costs between 8,000 to 25,000.
adcache.cycletrader.com...
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adcache.cycletrader.com...

A brand new BMW motorcycle,
adcache.cycletrader.com...
adcache.cycletrader.com...
adcache.cycletrader.com...
Ducati motorcycle, can cost upwards of 15,000 to 25,000.
www.munroemotors.com...

A brand new British motorcycle - the Triumph Speed Tripple,
www.walnecks.com...
costs between 10,000 to 15,000.

Harley's are now made in Japan. Yep, Harley is a Jap bike now. They cost between 12,000 to 50,000 depending on the style, how many are made, on and on.

Originally posted by LeftBehind
I hear a lot of complaining about the fuel economy and pollution levels of SUVs. Maybe you haven't noticed but we are all still driving gasoline burning, polluting vehicles. Unless you have a hybrid you are deluding yourself if you think that you somehow making a difference.

www.ucsusa.org...

edit to add link.

[edit on 21-5-2005 by LeftBehind]

The Toyota Camery gets roughly 25 MPG. The Excursion SUV gets roughly 5-10 MPG. Other SUVs get an avarage of 15 MPG. You do the math. SUVs get much worse millage than cars. BOTH use gas powered engines. Both use piston engines.

(The Wankel rotary engine is gas powered, but is far, far, better than a piston engine.)


[edit on 21-5-2005 by OpenSecret2012]

i just love to hear about one person driveing a truck everyday . i was one of those. most days it was only myself in it. but seeing as i can only afford one vehicle of any description at a time IT DOES make sence to have the van.

why? well if i needed to take my sister and nephews somewhere, thats 5 people a car would be too small especialy since 2 need booster seats. i cary an armer bag quite often, that is a hocky bag filled with over 100lb's of metal armer for fighting, again woldn't fit in quite a few cars. once a year i was carrying about $3000 worth of alcohal (actualy overloading it). i go camping with friends (guess who pulls a trailer because most of their cars are too small). i sometimes carry stuff for work like a couple of 90lb cans of rust protection or several tires. all perfectly good reasons for haveing it. but when you see me most days you only SEE me, you don't see what cargo i might have. and yes i have had people whine at me for driveing such a vehicle when they see i am alone, but like i have said even if it happens to be empty at that time other times it is full.

then we have the safety isue. as some one put it in a rather pointed way (veiled threat), about when i hit them in a car. well it is not the driver of the big vehicle (or mini tank i believe was said)that you should have the problem with. you should fault the manufacturer of the "beer can" that you drive. it is not an unknown that these vehicles will colide. it is a calous decision on the manufacturer's side to reduce safety by reduceing the weight to make it more efficiant. tank vs beer can is a rather good comparison these days. i can dent a currant car just buy putting pressure on it with my finger. that will do a wonderfull job of protection in an accident don't you think? i have been rather amused at watching new cars get badly dented just by shopping carts blown by the wind. you should hear some of the swearing about this. one person i know suffered about $4000 damage one windy day, to make it worse the car was only two weeks old at the time. meanwile i once hit a deer at over 130 kph and only had minimal damage to the van. the cop who looked at the damage told me i was lucky i wasn't in a car, or i might not have been arround afterwards. in fact except for the feces, hair and blood involved in the damage,he wouldn't have thought that i had hit a deer at all. i was rather thankfull that i was in the truck for that.

now some might have noticed that i have used some past tens when talking about my van. that is because i had a bad accident six months ago.
now remember that i was driveing a van and not a car. i took two heavy impacts on the highway. i was rear ended by a smaller van that was in turn rearended by a cherokee. i am still suffering injury from it. but at least i am alive to bitch about it.my rear bumper (which was reinforced by the trailer hitch assembly) was bent to the ground. it looked at first like it had actualy been ripped off, but it actualy bent the frame. some much so that when i emptied out the back, there were two huge mounds in the floor from the frame buckleing up,(both mounds actualy spaned the entire width of the van over 2' diamater) also the rear floor was bent down as well. i was lucky that i was driveing a van. i shudder to think about what i would have been like had i been driveing this so called "smart car" for eample. can you say D.O.A. or especialy bad would have been a smart between my van and the cherokee. can you say pancake?

there definatly are tradeoffs in the vehicle that you choose. large, better built, gas gusslers. or small fuel efficiant death traps. it's your life, and your choice. cheeper fuel costs are nce but is it realy worth the risk. i have known too many people who died because they chose efficancy over safety. just so you know only a couple actualy hit bigger vehicles.

someone mentioned roll bars. a roll bar is essentualy a frame that is put in or on a truck to stop the roof from caveing in when the vehicle flips over. a very good idea not only for trucks but they should be in ALL vehicles. but then again the added weight would impact the efficancy of said vehicle (again safety vs efficancy). i would go so far as to recomend a full passenger compartment cage. made from the same tube metal for streingth as a good roll gar. that could keep cars from being compacted so badly in an accident. but it would add a lot of weight, so........and just to let you know i have seen far more cars on their roofs than trucks. so it seems that a "high center of gravety" is not the only problem, though that problem does exist. but hey i could do tighter faster corners in the van with less "tippiness" than my parrent's old small car could. interesting that.

all in all i will keep my truck thanks. (when i can afford to get a new one anyway, that or a car from the 70's). i like my life more than money thanks.

Not that it really matters cause in any high speed accident it's in the lap of the gods if you come out alive but you'd be surprised at crsh test results. While some SUVs are very safe, some are not.....and your reference to the Smart city car is not as relevant as you may think. I own one of these midgets and they are both entertaining and economical to drive. I can carry my bass amplification an instruments to gigs with little effort. The driver has a higher viewpoint than in a standard automobile which ,like SUVs, gives the driver a better view of what is happening on the road ahead.

Anyway test results.






So you are only marginally worse off if your in the car, but the big difference comes if you are a pedestrian unfotunate to be hit.

Originally posted by omega1
ummmmmmm....... ya kinda fell apart at the end. Front wheel drive is better for snow than rearis , but All or 4 wheel drive is still the best.

A test comparison between AWD, FWD and RWD

www.youtube.com...

1. Fuel is cheap.

2. A big car looks cool.

3. People believe they are safer.

4. Stupidity (lack of knowledge about the laws of energy).

I drive a full size truck to pull my horse trailer. We don't put a lot of miles on it. Where we live, we have to drive a truck like this in the winter when the roads are bad. We also haul wood with it. I don't know what we would do without it.

Most people in America today that drive trucks or SUV's do so because they think it's cool, or because of their culture.

Either was is a stupid, immature and superficial reason to make a choice that has such a big effect on the environment, national security, and personal finance.

I have a Mazda 6 and I love it, not only do I get good highway mileage, but I can even carry my canoe with it (roof rack) at the same time as my twins (yes you can take 2 car seats in a car).

auto manufacturers make more money the more expensive the vehicle,
it's all pushed at us, drive a little econo box and people openly make jokes, ride up your azz.
it's all about money.

I drve my BMW SUV because I like the look of it, I'm in the uk where smaller vehicles with decent mpg are very much a regular thing, not some trendy Eco friendly alternative as in the states.
I don't feel I'm doing something wrong in having a car that isn't a high mpg vehicle.

reply to post by drogo


They drive behemoths because it makes up for other short-comings

Originally posted by balon0
Its only here in America where everyones driving oversized SUVs and Hummers

Ever been to Iraq? I can not stand pick up trucks and vans because of that place. It's all they drive. The pick up truck is their combat chariot

Their vehicles have the worst mpgs because they are all crap and big.

I have a large GMC conversion van a large Chevy Silverado dually and a Jeep Grand Cherokee. The Jeep is the smallest and gets the worst mileage.

I drive large vehicles because I'm a straight ,working ,taxpaying American and I have the money to do what I want.

I also have a very large hunk of meat as I've been told many times and sex while driving is one of my most favorite things

You cant really get a small pickup anymore. There are a couple of really light ones that are pitifully weak but there arent anymore small yet powerful pickups.

Every pickup now is made all big puffy and bloated.

I miss the old Toyota truck and the VW pickups.

If I were rich I'd import one of those diesel Toyota Hilux pickups.

Trucks are all getting weaker, more fragile and at the same time all huge puffy and goofy looking.

Originally posted by Irma


So you are only marginally worse off if your in the car, but the big difference comes if you are a pedestrian unfotunate to be hit.

At speeds over 30mph it does not matter if you get hit as a pedestrian by a subcompact or an SUV. 30mph + pedestrian hits have about a 70% fatality rate while under 30mph have something around an 80% survival rate.

No time to find the reference but correct the numbers if you can. I am off a little as my memory fails me.

If you dont understand why an SUV or large pick up is needed by some, you dont work much and you dont get out much.

My husband is a suit geek by day.. and a landscaper, engineer, builder, etc etc etc after work. You cant haul wood or building materials or loads of topsoil in a compact. You cant haul 2 adults and 3 kids in a compact. You cant haul your kids and 2 or 3 other kids to a GS meeting or activity in a compact. I cant pick up the elderly and get them to a safe place before a bad storm or electricity going out in a compact.. or to their Drs. I cant take kids on field trips in a compact or carpool for activities. I cant go on vacation with my husband, kids, and dogs in a compact. I cant haul in ties or timbers to construct another raised garden. I cant haul rain barrels, concrete, drywall, whatever in a compact.

For an adult and landowner, there is a whole hell of a lot more to a vehicle than its speed and how cool it looks. To us, its not an accessory... its a tool. I can see where many of your minds and priorities are at since you cant comprehend this. How unfortunate.

reply to post by drogo


then come to england, we dont drive big trucks and whatever they drive in america...