PIC of Varyag starting reconstruction in Dalian

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Varyag was moved into drydocks last month and the reconstruction of it has begun, the ship is 70% finished so construction would be mainly based around weapons such as VLS, CIWS, Radars, AScM and control systems. It is still not sure which plane will be the the carrier fighter but Y-8 AWAC and Y-8 ELINT would be the carrier support aircraft. Construction could last for a few years.

[edit on 7-5-2005 by COWlan]

Mod Edit: Image size only.

[edit on 7-5-2005 by UM_Gazz]

Good find, I wonder how long it will take the chinses to finsh her, And what they will name her.

that's one packed shipyard

I estimate quite a while... the ship needs gutted and essentially rebuilt from the inside.

Not to mention the old blueprints will be obsolete so the chinese will have to come up with a new design for the entire carrier's interior.

Your looking at another 2 years work there... however the ship will have to undergo months of sea trials on top of that..

And then you have the question... how will you defend it?

I suppose if it is only to be used as a training facility/command ship it will not be as high a target priority... but it's going to take a while before the PLAN can provide adequate defence

China currently only has enough modern warships for at most 2 CBGs and some won't be up to western standards, Type 053H3s would be in there but won't be up to standards. 054A would fit in good and 052C for air defence, 052B for ASW and a few 2208 class to stab the enemy in their back.

Yo, lucretius, did you see the pic of the mockup CVN? THe one fitted with all the planes and stuff? That thing has 16 6-cell revolving launchers and 4 type 730s. You think thats could fit on Varyag?

How you figure it is going to be refit for military or naval use, COWlan?
According to SinoDefence.com, the Varyag is being refit to become a floating casino.

Also according to this:

The Varyag reached the Chinese port of Dalian in February 2001 for a refit into a floating casino and hotel, before being towed to Macau.

Project 1143.5 Kreml class Aircraft Carrier Cruiser

Got any up-to-date information saying otherwise?




seekerof

Yeah, the company that bought Varyag is now bankrupt (most likely just a coverup to transfer it into PLAN's hands). There will be no floating casino because gambling in China is not allowed outside of Macau and HongKong. 3 years the Varyag has sat beside warships and civil ships, ever wonder why?

The floating casino report is very old and out dated compared to Chinese reports which I am just very lazy to translate them and post them.

[edit on 7-5-2005 by COWlan]

Uh-uh...okie dokie.
Well, when you get the time, how about post that current information saying otherwise, cause according to credible online sources, nothing has changed in that "casino" project.

Btw, this is from January 2004 and UPDATED in February 2005 with nothing like you are asserting:

The Varyag is a modern design (newer than the initial ship of the Russian class, the Kuznetzov, which is currently operational with the russian fleet) and could be become a very capable intial foray into the carrier world by the PLAN. It was towed to the Dalian Chinese naval yards where it is currently being studied for anything but a floating Casino.

THE RISING SEA DRAGON IN ASIA: 2004
THE RISING SEA DRAGON IN ASIA: 2005 Update




seekerof

[edit on 7-5-2005 by Seekerof]

Both the links state that China intends to use the Varyag especially the 2005 update where it states:

"Coninued outfitting of the former Russian Vayrag at the Dalian shipyards."

The 2004 version states:

"But do the Chinese intend to do this? .........The answer to that questions is an umittigated, yes! "

The website is that of Jeff Head, a military fiction writer currently working on his books about the Chinese side of WWIII. He has done his study but there are mistakes.

Sinodefence is created by a military fan who's real job is a computer programmer. He adds to the website on his own time as a hobby, there are many things that he doesn't have also.

[edit on 7-5-2005 by COWlan]

Thats all well and good COWlan, again, you lack sources to counter what is being indicated.

Please provide to the contrary.


seekerof

Its 11:30 PM in Canada, its late so I'm out, I'll translate the article tomorrow.

The only thing even remotely indicating what you say is this:

Originally, the Varyag was bought, for three times its scrap value, by a Chinese front company (that turned out to be owned by the Chinese navy). Their stated intention was to convert the ship into a floating casino in Macao (near Hong Kong). This turned out to be a cover story, to get Turkey to allow the Varyag to be towed out of the Black Sea. There’s an international treaty that allows Turkey to control what warships pass through the Turkish controlled entrance to the Black Sea, so the Chinese had to make it look like the Varyag was no longer going to be used as a warship. The Chinese then spent $30 million, and 627 days, to tow the engineless Varyag to a Chinese naval base. The Varyag was originally designed to operate the Su-27 fighter (which the Chinese have).

The Continued Adventures of the Varyag
EX-SOVIET AIRCRAFT CARRIERS AND CHINA’S R&D PROGRAM

So possible doubt exists, but again, no sources from you....interesting no?
The mystery of the hapless Varyag




seekerof

[edit on 7-5-2005 by Seekerof]

I took the quote right out of your Jeff Head's 2005 version and 2004 version.

Your quote just stated what I had to say in this thread, Varyag is being restored as a full working PLAN CVN. And As I have said, the whole casino thing was a hoax and your quote stated that as well.

[edit on 7-5-2005 by COWlan]

Hey Folks,

There was a thread about this vessel some time back, and how the vessel han been purchased by the PLAN, as yet there was no "definate" sources to back it up, but I do have a few notes about that veesel.

1. If as it is mentioned, it still plans on becoming a floating casino, why the heavy equipment, why the cranes, why the heavy duty, "Titanic" style contrustion equipment.
2. Surely that to convert any ship into a casino isn't all that hard, you don't need a sodding crane for it, hell in america some guys converted a Russian SSGN into a resturant, they only needed to use a blow torch on one area, and a sodding aircraft carrier has a huge hanger deck...
3. As for 70%, the carrier is grand, it has the basic propulsion systems etc The only thing in my mind they require is fitting of defensive and offensive systems, not to mention aircraft related systems eg refueling and handling systems.
4. Why would the chinese want to change any thing with that aircraft carrier, they use the same doctineas russia, also carrier design doesn't really change, flight deck, hanger deck, crew areas and weapon storage and then propulsion, they use the same aircraft to a degree, I don't see them wanting to chop the hell out of the inside of her.

Folks, if the chinese really want this carrier operational, you will see her floating within 2 years, they have a habit of being able to pump ships out like baby rabbits.

As for operational... at least 2 years training for the crew and the ship board pilots, just out out of interest, has any one seen any images of shaighi, just to see any runaways that have 200m marks and landing lines? Or that Chinese aircraft or pilots using the Russian land based Naval flight deck training area? Would be interesting to see if they are up to that.

In my opinion, this sucker has PLAN written all over it.

- Phil

P.S Its the single CVBG that you have to worry about, china don't need half a dozen straight away, one would be great for taiwan.

[edit on 8-5-2005 by gooseuk]

[edit on 8-5-2005 by gooseuk]

I dunno, Taiwan issue might not be good for a Chinese CBG or Carrier Strike Group (they changed the name right?), if USN sends 4 CBGs then its not gonna be too pretty for our CBG, thats outnumbered and out teched. I personally say China needs 3 CBG by 2020 and 6 by 2035. But oh well, Taiwan's not gonna declare independance so we might not even need to pump stuff out that fast.

China would be in for more trouble then simply worrying about US CBGs and response:
Taiwan To Mass Produce Supersonic Anti-Ship Missiles: The Hsiung Feng III

And this mention: [a good read]
The year to fear for Taiwan: 2006




seekerof

[edit on 8-5-2005 by Seekerof]

Well if they're going to make that ship a casino they better make it real stable. I don't want my pile of chips to fall over due to the ship rocking back and forth.

[edit on 9-5-2005 by Taishyou]

Originally posted by COWlan

Yo, lucretius, did you see the pic of the mockup CVN? THe one fitted with all the planes and stuff? That thing has 16 6-cell revolving launchers and 4 type 730s. You think thats could fit on Varyag?

No I have not seen this... if you could provide me with a link I would be most appreciative.

This Varyag..
Its a very new carrier desgin by the russians I presume??...
What aircraft do the Kutznevnov (misspelled) carry?

The Varyag if I recall correctly is at least a 10-15 year old hull and a design of slightly older vintage.

Here's some info re planes and the casino theory I found in a news article:

Never having previously had a sea-based air capability, the Chinese Navy has purchased and studied three different carrier designs over the past decade, often under the pretext of economic objectives such as the construction of floating casinos. The former Russian carrier Varyag was one such purchase, which analysts believe to be at the core of Chinese efforts to develop a naval air power projection capability. It was towed from the Black Sea, and is being studied at the Dalian naval yards. It is believed that it could either be re-fitted to serve the Chinese navy, or instead be used as the technical foundation for an entirely indigenous aircraft carrier.

Assuming that China is able to re-fit its existing air force fleet of Russian Su-27 and indigenous J-10 aircraft for sea-based deployments, the Varyag platform is a credible rival to the US Nimitz-class carriers, capable of supporting 40-50 combat aircraft.

Mirroring the US carrier battle group concept, the Chinese Navy has been upgrading its other vessels to ensure some degree of parity with the US. For example, it recently purchased four Russian Sovremenny-class destroyers, which were originally produced to threaten US carrier vessels. Re-fitted and re-designated as Hangzhou-class, analysts believe that the ships are highly capable multi-purpose guided missile destroyers, equipped with the Sunburn supersonic anti-ship cruise missile, to defeat the US Navy's Aegis air defence system, as well as Gadfly surface-to-air missiles for area defence.

Source: "US Force Realignment Continues, with Plan to Deploy Second Carrier Group to Asia-Pacific", World Markets Analysis, August 12, 2004.

-koji K.

[edit on 9-5-2005 by koji_K]

I always thought the "casino project" sounded fishy.

I wouldn't be suprised at all to see her refitted by the Chinese, it is clear they are in the middle of a massive naval buildup, the desire to begin building a carrier force is a logical extension of that effort.

It's not that they necessarily need a carrier force now, but if they want the option to have one in a decade or two, they need to start learning the ropes now. Carrier operations are very complex, they require a lot of well-trained specialists, from the pilots to the deck crew. If you want to buid a carrier force, you need a carrier to train on.