We Need A Rover On Europa!

Mars may be 'Earth's Sister' but there is only one place in our solar system (other than Earth) that may be able to sustain lifeforms.

That place is Europa!

Europa is the 6th of Jupiters known moons and the 4th largest, and is the only place other than Earth that is believed to have liquid water underneath its crust of ice. Europa is also one of only a few moons in our solar system that is known to have an atmosphere.

A couple of missions had been planned by NASA in the 90's but nothing has ever came of these. One of these was a sample return mission and another planned to break through the ice and look for life in Europa's vast ocean.

Why is NASA spending more and more money on rovers to go to Mars when we dont need them. We have had 3 there now and should be ready to send men.
So why not invest in a Europa lander.

Send one and we could find almost anything under the ice.

www.nineplanets.org...
science.msfc.nasa.gov...

if i remember from my class correctly, they have already sent something that should be there within the next 2 or 3 years. we just got done talking about this too, in my class called science and search for extraterrestrials

but until then, keep your eyes on Mars, you might be very surprised...

if i remember from my class correctly, they have already sent something that should be there within the next 2 or 3 years.

They were supposed to send the 'Europa Ice Clipper' that should have arrived in 2009 but im 99% positive it was never launched.

but until then, keep your eyes on Mars, you might be very surprised...

About???




[edit on 5/5/2005 by MickeyDee]

Yeah Europa should be our Number 2 priority behind Mars. We need to send a few nuke powered rovers(only way to melt through the ice) to try to figure out whats under the crust. It would be increadible to find a thriving ecosystem on Europa and it wound't suprise me if they did find it. Why Mars is more important? Because we KNOW that there was liquid water on the surface and massive resovoires spread throughout the equater. We need to get all of our eggs into multiple baskets

Totally.

It's the best bet in the solar system for anything worthy of a follow-up to Mars, and will be fascinating no matter what happens.

It's a little harder to pull off, though. Farther to go, less light, and colder. Nothing to help the rover out at all, not at all.

Originally posted by Amorymeltzer
It's a little harder to pull off, though. Farther to go, less light, and colder. Nothing to help the rover out at all, not at all.

Well the next generation of rovers to Mars is supposed to have nuclear power of sorts, so maybe if that works well we could use it as a stepping stone to Europa.

Farther to go, less light, and colder.

Emphasis on less light and colder.. lets not forget it is a moon orbiting the biggest planet in the solar system. It's spends a fair amount of time in Jupitor's shadows.. nice, dark, cold shadows. If there is a liquid water ocean beneath the ice crust, Id wager that any thermal, radiated, or tidal energy that might be generated isn't nearly enough to maintain a liquid state at any depth, when in the shadow. It remain[s] possible tho, we wont know until we drill. So if there is liquid water, it very well might solidify when behind Jupitor. But hey, frogs can freeze solid and seemingly come back to life, so it is entirely possible there is life on Europa that has evolved in a similar fasion. However that is one bet I personally wouldn't make.
Here's a good read:
www.resa.net...

[edit on 5-5-2005 by apc]

Originally posted by apc

Farther to go, less light, and colder.

Emphasis on less light and colder.. lets not forget it is a moon orbiting the biggest planet in the solar system. It's spends a fair amount of time in Jupitor's shadows.. nice, dark, cold shadows. If there is a liquid water ocean beneath the ice crust, Id wager that any thermal, radiated, or tidal energy that might be generated isn't nearly enough to maintain a liquid state at any depth, when in the shadow. It remain[s] possible tho, we wont know until we drill. So if there is liquid water, it very well might solidify when behind Jupitor. But hey, frogs can freeze solid and seemingly come back to life, so it is entirely possible there is life on Europa that has evolved in a similar fasion. However that is one bet I personally wouldn't make.
Here's a good read:
www.resa.net...

[edit on 5-5-2005 by apc]

in the articles we've read for class, if there is a sub-surface ocean, its kept liquid from the heat of the two gravitational pulls it has on it - from jupiter itself and the other moons. also its also highly probably there is a subsurface ocean because of the red diapers that have come to the surface. the ice warmed, and was able to come through thinner parts of the surface (made thinner by the impacts) to then be on the surface.

i'll look at my articles again and post more

Yeah that's what I just said... "tidal" forces.
Obviously having not been there I dont know what the exact impact would be, but Im talking specifically about when the moon is in Jupitors shadow. It gets very, very, very cold. In my opinion the friction generated by tidal forces would be insufficient to generate enough heat to counteract these temperatures.
In combination with sunlight, safe to say it does have an impact, but in the shade, -300degF give or take is pretty darn cold.

Originally posted by apc
Yeah that's what I just said... "tidal" forces.
Obviously having not been there I dont know what the exact impact would be, but Im talking specifically about when the moon is in Jupitors shadow. It gets very, very, very cold. In my opinion the friction generated by tidal forces would be insufficient to generate enough heat to counteract these temperatures.
In combination with sunlight, safe to say it does have an impact, but in the shade, -300degF give or take is pretty darn cold.

You're also forgetting that ice is a very effective insulator And another thing we do not know is what the core of Europa is made of and wether it's active or not. It is planet sized so I guess it's possible. Does Europa have a magnetic field??

EDIT: And another thing, the temps you are talking about are surface temps, we have no idea what the subsurface temps are or what the core temps are or whatever. It's why we need to send missions there in the first place.

[edit on 5-5-2005 by sardion2000]

I would agree that Europa is a 'good prospect' for life if it has a liquid ocean beneath its icy crust, but given the sucess of the recent Cassini-Huygens mission to Saturn's moon titan, and the indications of methane oceans(methane may be a substitute for oxygen in chemical life process) and of course all that is/will been done at Mars(hopefully in preperation for manned missions), I doubt many resourses(perhaps a cheap sattelite) will be diverted to Europa.

[edit on 5-5-2005 by Rren]

Ahhh yes true true ice does trap heat well.
I must concede a mistaken assumption I made in that I assumed Europa's orbital time was rather lengthy. Apparently it is merely a little less than 4 Earth-days. So it would only spend half a day or so in the shade.
There's too many unknowns for sure regarding just how much heat the body generates internally, we wont really know until we can dig in and take a peek.

Hey Sardion,

Here is a good read on the Gallilean satellites, and their Magnetic fields..
It's also interesting to note that it's possible that there are 3 Jovian moons with potential subsurface oceans..

Magnetic Moons

TextIt is planet sized so I guess it's possible. Does Europa have a magnetic field??

emm......No its not, its Moon sized!

Sorry to be awkward!

Loads of stuff here on Europa including how it has an oxygen (of sorts) atmosphere and how it most probably has liquid oceans under the crust of ice:

www2.jpl.nasa.gov...

For me Europa is the most exciting thing in the solar sytem at the moment and would be far more interesting than Mars to expolre. We know that there is no life on Mars but dont have a clue what lies beneath the ice in Europas vast liquid oceans.

NASA should at least send a drilling rover out that could drill through the ice and relay some pictures of what possibly lives on Saturns fourth moon!

[edit on 11/5/2005 by MickeyDee]

So, if there is life on Europa... you want to send a large radioactive object that shoots fire, to punch a hole in its protective ice?

If europan life was inteligent, that would be an act of war.

If semi-intelligent, it would be terrifying.

If non-intelligent, just destructive.

So, if there is life on Europa... you want to send a large radioactive object that shoots fire, to punch a hole in its protective ice?

Errr....NO!

It wouldnt be radioactive (remember Cassini-Huygens went further without nuclear power) and it wouldnt be spitting fire.

It would be conventionally powered and have a drill to bore through the ice which would pose no threat to any life forms on Europa!

Originally posted by MickeyDee
It wouldnt be radioactive (remember Cassini-Huygens went further without nuclear power) and it wouldnt be spitting fire.

It would be conventionally powered and have a drill to bore through the ice which would pose no threat to any life forms on Europa!

So it would have to be 100% decontaminated.

It wouldn't shoot fire, but will still generate heat or vibrations to melt through or drill through the ice.

It would run on batteries made of highly rective chemicals (conventional).

And would still put a hole in the protective ice.

Still seems like a lousy thing to do just to meet them. If we send a lander to europa, i'd hope not to find life just so we didn't have to appoligize.

Still seems like a lousy thing to do just to meet them. If we send a lander to europa, i'd hope not to find life just so we didn't have to appoligize.

I think we're talkin life like whats at the bottom of our oceans, not little green men who want to make friends!!!