Crop Circles 2005

Originally posted by Frosty

Originally posted by ANOK
Frosty, do some reading for peets sake! You're are just making yourself look stupid.

www.lovely.clara.net...

Please just quote something from the link, I'm not going to go through 15 pages of internet to try and debunk myself, that is for you to do. Put some effort into it.

[edit on 30-8-2005 by Frosty]

Your heading to warning town with your ignorance here.

The page quoted is not 15 pages long, it's little over 1 page on my monitor, you should have the decency to atleast check a link provided to you when you ASK for information.

Your showing your colours as nothing more than a Troll who has no intentions of debating or discussion these issues with real thought but instead have made it your mission to ignore all information given to you in order to give the illusion that your 'debunking' something.

If you really want something handed to you so you don't have to think to hard... here's a flash presentation that you can try and debate:

theconversation.org...

Originally posted by Frosty
Please just quote something from the link, I'm not going to go through 15 pages of internet to try and debunk myself, that is for you to do. Put some effort into it.

If you are not willing to put the time in to educate yourself, I aint gonna do it for you. YOU put some effort in, I already have.

WTF are you doing trying to de-bunk something you admittedly know nothing about?

You have just discredited yourself, anything you post here or elsewhere is now totally meaningless.

When you were in school did you tell your teachers you were too lazy to read your books, please give me the answers?

And I'll be waiting for those pictures...

Another quality member of ATS

Sorry for being OT but jeez, some people!


[edit on 31/8/2005 by ANOK]

Originally posted by ANOK
If you are not willing to put the time in to educate yourself, I aint gonna do it for you. YOU put some effort in, I already have.

Amen to that.

It's not the opposing viewpoint that bothers me, but the ignorance and laziness. I simply don't have time to do other people's work for them.

I used to approach this topic (and other topics such as ET's and secret government) with "Don't you see it?" and expected people to quickly come to my conclusion. I have since learned that this is not productive and promotes laziness in people. I now encourage people to reserve judgement on topics until they have a good foundation of understanding of the facts to make a judgement for themselves. I encourage people to NOT just take my word for it, but do some investigation yourself and keep an open mind to ALL possibilities. This is the most productive way to expand your conscious awareness IMO.

People are TOO QUICK to decide what they believe without doing research or learning more. This is probably because it's a lot of work and requires patience, which a lot of people are lacking.

Isn't this site about Denying Ignorance? For those who haven't looked up "Ignorance" lately in the dictionary, it simply means "Lack of knowledge or information"
The idea behind a wonderful site like ATS is that it promotes a community of people interested in mysterious subjects and facilitates discussion to providing information and direction to information on those topics. When people refuse to do any of the work, they tax everyone else and waste a lot of time, not to mention that the topic of conversation doesn't really go anywhere and people lose interest.

This is the last I'll say on this aspect of discussion and will proceed forward discussing the actual phenomenon with regards to facts and information that I have uncovered.

Peace,

~Jammer+

And still yet no one attempts to refute what I have stated. You people are trying to tell me that blueprints are not a viable means of constructing a crop circle, why? Let's hear it. Stop saying how I am ignorant. You link which I did read offered nothing to refute any of my points.

Well said Jammer...I've had the same problems with frosty in other threads. He never wants to read the links I've posted and always expects someone to explain it to him here.

Frosty: ATS is just a springboard to those that want to deny ignorance. If you find a discussion in progress that interests you, but you want more information, do some research on the subject. The internet is full of websites on millions of subjects. It is the greatest research tool of all time, so learn to use it. You ask questions that would take an entire essay or more to explain, and then when given the link to the essay you ignore it. That's not denying ignorance, that's just plain stupid.

Okay onto the topic of this post...classification, feel free to add to it.

Who or what are making the crop circles...so far I can list as possibilities:

1. Extra-Terrestials using a physical craft
2. Extra-Terrestials using telepathy/telekenesis tech (Chilbolton)
3. Extra-Dimensional entities (ghosts/angels/archangels)
4. Satellites with some type of microwave beam tech
5. Gaia (Intelligent earth)
6. Mad Made (Hoaxers)

Anything I missed?

I'm not attempting to come to a single conclusion, but to list all possible sources for crop circles.

peace

Originally posted by TheShroudOfMemphis

Originally posted by Frosty
1. Simply a creative mind, artistic makes a sketch and decides to apply it to a wheat field.

2. He then measures out a predetermined field after staking out and taking measurements: Area and perimeter and then reapplies it to the original blue print.

How does this artist stake and plot this field in the dark?
How long do you estimate this plotting and staking to take?
What do you mean 'reapplies it to the original blue print'?

There are many tactics, he could drive by in his car and use his odemeter, he could use reference points with his thumb, he simply sneek into the field one night and measure the dimensions off with tape, etc...could take a day, a wekk or a month, but this is irrelevant. Reapply, use some cognitive thought. He has mesurements of a field say 60x40, he then makes a sketch of a field 60x40 and then overlays his original sketch. Now he knows the size of the circles and the rows.

Originally posted by TheShroudOfMemphis

Originally posted by Frosty
He then takes string and a stake, marks off the appropriate areas and begins stomping down the crop. You can see he makes diagnol rows or possibly vertical or horizontal, stomps the crop in various directions and overlaps them and then finishes off with the circles.

How exactly does he take the string and stake to mark off the areas?
Can you provide a plausable way this design was mapped out in the dark, using string and stake plots to be followed by a stomping board?

Remember the blueprint? I am sure he made notes of where to nail a stake into the ground and run out a rope or line a certain length and probably could have a small flash light to assist him or friends to memorize the rest of the process.

Originally posted by TheShroudOfMemphisDoe he make diagonal or vertical or horizontal lines? That's not very clear in your answer. Surely to be plotting and stomping this in the dark the artist would of had to of had some reference points.

I have no idea what he makes, it seems irrelevant. It is to his will which way he stomps, I only have one up close photo on this thread to provide me with the information, which is very little. Show me more photos and I could be more precise.

Originally posted by TheShroudOfMemphisWhere would place reference points for this artist to begin with this design?

I don't know, if you refer to Howard Roak's gif there are many ways to plot these things out, and if I had more photos I could tell you, possibly.

Originally posted by TheShroudOfMemphisAre you able to show us how someone would plot this design since your claiming such ease in being able to create this? Can you draw plot lines on this design and show the movement and direction the crop stomper would of taken?

I didn't say anything about ease, I just said the method is not hard, doing the actually thing could take months or years for all I know. Where could I upload such an image if I create one?

Originally posted by TheShroudOfMemphisBasically, you've assumed a lot of stuff here but you haven't given any details to what it actually takes. Even if this was created by humans there are a few factors that would be needed which you haven't addressed, a lot of time being the most obvious.

Correct, this is how I assume someone would do this. If I were paid enough or motivated enough this is how I would assume to create such a piece of art.

Originally posted by TheShroudOfMemphisHave you ever plotted anything out for landscaping or in building? If it takes a half-day to plot the frame positions for putting up walls on a concret slab using string line method and a detailed plan when building an average sized one story house, do you realise how long it would take to plot something in the night which isn't based on right angles, doesn't have a flat surface and which only reveals it's true self from high in the air?

Nothing more than plotting on my father's lawn or my grandparents field, nothing like a crop field.

Originally posted by TheShroudOfMemphisWhen 'debunking' you MUST provide valid reasoning that contain technical analysis, not assumptions that have no basis.

My valid reasoning are blueprints. These are very commonly used on all engineering, including electrical or civil. I don't see how this case could be any different. Some artist are known to create sketch's of a statue before the ever start or even sketch's of paintings.

Originally posted by StickyG
Well said Jammer...I've had the same problems with frosty in other threads. He never wants to read the links I've posted and always expects someone to explain it to him here.

Frosty: ATS is just a springboard to those that want to deny ignorance. If you find a discussion in progress that interests you, but you want more information, do some research on the subject. The internet is full of websites on millions of subjects. It is the greatest research tool of all time, so learn to use it. You ask questions that would take an entire essay or more to explain, and then when given the link to the essay you ignore it. That's not denying ignorance, that's just plain stupid.

Okay onto the topic of this post...classification, feel free to add to it.

Who or what are making the crop circles...so far I can list as possibilities:

1. Extra-Terrestials using a physical craft
2. Extra-Terrestials using telepathy/telekenesis tech (Chilbolton)
3. Extra-Dimensional entities (ghosts/angels/archangels)
4. Satellites with some type of microwave beam tech
5. Gaia (Intelligent earth)
6. Mad Made (Hoaxers)

Anything I missed?

I'm not attempting to come to a single conclusion, but to list all possible sources for crop circles.

peace

Yes, you missed one thing. The explinations and reasoning for numbers 1-5. I have given a good analysis of how blueprint methods in engineering could be used in creating a crop circle. Now, just give us evidence of telepathy/telekenisis, angels, where the energy for a satellite in orbit to use a 'microwave' weapon of such energy consumption and intelligent earth.

[edit on 31-8-2005 by Frosty]

I do not deny that some crop circles are being made by people with entirely too much time on their hands, but much of the evidence for most of the crop circles clearly points to a non-human creator. As you said yourself, "I didn't say anything about ease, I just said the method is not hard, doing the actually thing could take months or years for all I know."

Are you ignoring the fact that crop circles are formed in one night and not months or years? Are you ignoring the node expulsions, the unbroken stalks, and the chemical changes to the underlying soil? What about the lack of footprints or any type of path leading to or from the formations? What about eye witness accounts of orbs of light hovering around a formation? There is so much evidence proving not all circles are created by hoaxers, that saying the answer to crop circles is the use of blueprints, you are only showing how ignorant and lazy you really are.

peace

Originally posted by StickyG

Okay onto the topic of this post...classification, feel free to add to it.

Who or what are making the crop circles...so far I can list as possibilities:

1. Extra-Terrestials using a physical craft
2. Extra-Terrestials using telepathy/telekenesis tech (Chilbolton)
3. Extra-Dimensional entities (ghosts/angels/archangels)
4. Satellites with some type of microwave beam tech
5. Gaia (Intelligent earth)
6. Mad Made (Hoaxers)

Anything I missed?

I'm not attempting to come to a single conclusion, but to list all possible sources for crop circles.

peace

I would add one more

7. Natural causes of unknown physics (or yet to be learned physics)

It would also be prudent to point out that all or any combination there-of could be taking place. Simpler circles tend to show more signs of natural energies being involved rather than intelligence. The study of sound with respect to form (Cymatics) shows us that sound waves combined with other energies could be used to create forms from simple circles to complex fractal geometry.

Freddy Silva, in his book Secrets in the Fields, strongly suggests from his research that sound is most likely a major component being used to create the genuine formations. BLTResearch in the physical and chemical changes of the plants themselves indicate that microwaves (or energy in that spectrum) is also involved.

Again though, the hows are not as interesting as the whys anymore. Science and logic is useful for describing the how questions, but spiritual and intuitive approaches are needed to get into the Why questions. Personally I'm way past the how questions (although they are still interesting to me as a scientifically minded person) and have been pondering the why question for the past few years.

Freddy Silva's "Secrets in the Fields" is an Excellent resource for both however and I recommend it highly (as you may have noticed by now)
Note - I am in no way affiliated with Freddy Silva other than a fan of his research.

Peace,

~Jammer+

Frosty, if you read the link I provided or find some of your own,

let me help you again,
www.google.com...

you would realise how stupid your planks and string theory is.

We don't need to explain it to you the info is already out there, unless your internet acount only alows you access to ATS

Originally posted by ANOK
Frosty, if you read the link I provided or find some of your own,

let me help you again,
www.google.com...

you would realise how stupid your planks and string theory is.

We don't need to explain it to you the info is already out there, unless your internet acount only alows you access to ATS

Show me the information. Where is it? Why are blueprints not a viable means? Explain, stop acting as a mouth piece for the sites, have you even read the sites?

Originally posted by StickyG
I do not deny that some crop circles are being made by people with entirely too much time on their hands, but much of the evidence for most of the crop circles clearly points to a non-human creator. As you said yourself, "I didn't say anything about ease, I just said the method is not hard, doing the actually thing could take months or years for all I know."

Are you ignoring the fact that crop circles are formed in one night and not months or years? Are you ignoring the node expulsions, the unbroken stalks, and the chemical changes to the underlying soil? What about the lack of footprints or any type of path leading to or from the formations? What about eye witness accounts of orbs of light hovering around a formation? There is so much evidence proving not all circles are created by hoaxers, that saying the answer to crop circles is the use of blueprints, you are only showing how ignorant and lazy you really are.

peace

Howard Roak's post already debunked the node theory quite well.

Oh, this is tasteful, I am called the ignorant one but when it comes time to prove or attempt to demonsrate an agruement for your theory...

































nothing.

Howard Roak's post already debunked the node theory quite well.

Dude I'm not gonna keep arguing with you and I'm not gonna hold your hand.

If you did some reading of information provided to you, you would understand.

I'm not gonna paste it from the site, when you can just click a link and it's right there for you.

Like I said if you think you can do it with a blueprint, boards and string go for it, I would love to see the results.

I will even draw a blueprint for you, I am a trained CAD engineering drafter.
All you have to do is supply your own boards, string, camera and field to do it in.

The only rule is you have to do it in one night unobserved, with no signs of you ever being in the field. If it's so easy, you shouldn't have a problem right?

Originally posted by Frosty
Howard Roak's post already debunked the node theory quite well.

LOL another Howweird fan, our professional debunker on EVERYTHING posted on ATS. Give me a break!

I too would like to know why the idea of making a blueprint doesn't seem like a viable option. If I were to go out and make a crop circle. I'd go out in the afternoon, looking for a good field. I'd then do some basic surveying of the area of the field i'd want to make my circle on. I'd go home with the basic measurements and plot out the design i'd want to make. I'd figure out what all i'd need and then go either that night or maybe wait till there's a full moon or something, so that it's a bit brighter. But that's just me.

Also, i'd like to know what you all think of these crop circles. Obviously made by man and I think they are just as complex and nicely done as the other pics that have been posted in this thread.




^It took 6 people 7 hours to do the one I posted above, just to give you an idea. I'd assume the writing is what took the most time.



i'd say making the shape of a foot is a lot harder then a regular circle.






So i'd have to say it's completely and totaly possible for us humans to create crop circles that look good and are complex.

Ooooo got more.

The following one was created by 3 people for the National Geographic. It took them 5 hours (including breaks). It's 200ft in size



This couldn't be... no... wait, yes... it is a blue print *gasp*


Now i'd say that one is definately pretty complex.

[edit on 31-8-2005 by jra]

There is no denying that Humans can make crop circles.

If you read some of the info available you would see that REAL crop circles could not be man-made.

There are circles found all over the World. In all kinds of fields, even in ice.

There must be crop circle makers all over the World, how come we never find out who's doing it?

If they were "artists" they would be the first to come forward. What's the point of creating "art" if you take no credit for it?

There are people out there doing serious research on crop circles, surely if they are man made they would have figured that out long ago.

Here's one:

www.cropcircleconnector.com...

Here is a report of a man-made circle:

www.peoplesdefender.com...

They know the difference.

Originally posted by ANOK
There must be crop circle makers all over the World, how come we never find out who's doing it?

If they were "artists" they would be the first to come forward. What's the point of creating "art" if you take no credit for it?

Do all graffiti artists take credit for all there work? They would rarely use there real names if they do. They could get in a lot of trouble and get fined if they get caught, just like most crop circle makers would too. Their are some graffiti artists that are known by there real names, just like there are some crop circle makers that are known by there real names. Generally because they are really good at what they do and tend to get hired to do what they do legally. But the majority just do it for the fun of doing it.

The point of creating art is not to take credit for it. The point of creating art is just that. Creating something you like. I'd have to disagree that the artist would be the first to come forward.

EDIT: Found more man made circles. Since I don't want to appear that i'm spamming this thread I'll just edit this post. By the way i'm getting these from www.circlemakers.org...

Hello Kitty. 200ft in size.






Although this was done in the sand and not in a field, still pretty impressive. It took 13 people about 6 hours to make. It's 206ft x 113ft.




[edit on 31-8-2005 by jra]

Just read thru everything, Great discussion. I think personally that CropCircles are real. Just to get that out. I watched a Crop Circle documentry about how they used boards I don't think its very likely that a few even a hundred people could go out in the middle of the night and make thse things. I understan Howard that It could take days like you said but some of these formations are beyond beliefe in size and shape. Even if A hundred people went out to do this how could they co-operate so well. Honestly, All these people making this formation is insane. For everything to run together correctlly everyone would have to be perfectly organized, everything would have to be perfectly marked and such. To think that a massive group made these circles is pretty obsurd. Now that They did it ove a few weeks time I can agree. But I think that it would take a lot of effort to do this. Some of the Crop Circles were so complex that a small group of people maybe 3-7, Would easily be undetected at night but it would take many nights to do this. Probablly a months worth Just saying on certain formations. Especially those with Large circles, the way they role thru imagine having to walk in a perfect circle with a board, for hours and hour. Now imagine doing that in darkness comlpete utter darkness. Just think of how hard that would be. I just don't see it happening. Im not sting none are man made I know some are. But not all.

Originally posted by inspiringyouth
Just read thru everything, Great discussion. I think personally that CropCircles are real. Just to get that out. I watched a Crop Circle documentry about how they used boards I don't think its very likely that a few even a hundred people could go out in the middle of the night and make thse things. I understan Howard that It could take days like you said but some of these formations are beyond beliefe in size and shape. Even if A hundred people went out to do this how could they co-operate so well. Honestly, All these people making this formation is insane. For everything to run together correctlly everyone would have to be perfectly organized, everything would have to be perfectly marked and such. To think that a massive group made these circles is pretty obsurd. Now that They did it ove a few weeks time I can agree. But I think that it would take a lot of effort to do this. Some of the Crop Circles were so complex that a small group of people maybe 3-7, Would easily be undetected at night but it would take many nights to do this. Probablly a months worth Just saying on certain formations. Especially those with Large circles, the way they role thru imagine having to walk in a perfect circle with a board, for hours and hour. Now imagine doing that in darkness comlpete utter darkness. Just think of how hard that would be. I just don't see it happening. Im not sting none are man made I know some are. But not all.

Oh no, you guys are multiplying!