Fighting for what you actully believe in.

Lets face it, the last time some one fought for somthing they actully believed in was during WW2, when free will, free speech, the right to practise you religion, having the same rights as everyone else. When the allies fought along side ecah other to protect their beliefs and freedoms. America has been defined as the land of the free, the land of opportunity.................along with more than several other counties in the world. I pose the qustion: When was the last time the YOUR goverment (not just america as they always assume these kind of qustions are pointed at them) did somthing you believed would help protect the ideals i have mentioned above? On a side note i would never join the army and fight for somthing i did'nt believe in, however if the nazi or some other group of people tried to take over the world and take away the things alot of us take for granted, then thats another story.

[edit on 4-5-2005 by PeteTPP]

We are already fighting for what we believe in. It's called the war on terror. Has not our government not supported this cause. Actually it should be called the Christian crusade against Muslim extremists.

There are quite a few men and women currently in Iraq who are fighting for what they believe in.
Since the end of WWII there were countless thousand of americans who participated in the 40+ year Cold War against expansionist communism. I think they believed in that as well.
The Nazi example brought forth is a valid one, but not all faces of evil will be so obvious.

Unobstructed, the forces of radical Islam will kill more non-believers. Perhaps mostly in dozens, occasionally hundreds......and when the opportunity presents itself, in the thousands again as in the assault on the civilians populating the WTC.
I would suggest not waiting until their weaponry includes delivery systems for nuclear warheads.

Originally posted by periwinkle blue
There are quite a few men and women currently in Iraq who are fighting for what they believe in.
Since the end of WWII there were countless thousand of americans who participated in the 40+ year Cold War against expansionist communism. I think they believed in that as well.

Thanks for the opinions, keep um comin.
Im sure there are men and women in iraq fighting for what they believe in.........the war againest terrorism. They are still soldiers following orders, they are doing what the government is telling them to do and the government wants them to do. The government is'nt telling us the truth 100% of the time, why would they, thats madness.

In my opinion the cold war was nothing but meaningless competition between east and west to see who was bigger and better. When it came to the space-program, weapons technology, the milatary and military weapons and technology. These were nothing but arena's for these meaningless competitions.

[edit on 4-5-2005 by PeteTPP]

[edit on 4-5-2005 by PeteTPP]

I don't know when the last time the government did anything I believed in. They have pretty much systematically done the wrong thing, or done nothing (the latter is much more often) about the things I'd like to see it doing.

Some believe, so it'll differ with each person.

Originally posted by flycatch
We are already fighting for what we believe in. It's called the war on terror. Has not our government not supported this cause. Actually it should be called the Christian crusade against Muslim extremists.

I didnt knonw terror was a state or goup.
Terror is a noun, are we fighting words now?

Interesting, Pete, that the only nation specifically mentioned by you in your opening volley was America, and then you claim we Americans always assume we are being talked about.

It appears to me that you are your worst enemy in discussions. It also appears to me that you have some sort of anti-American burr under your saddle.

Thomas

It is possible to want your country to fail so it can see longterm change. I am anti-American is some of my opinions, but not the the detriment of our people or our ideals.

There are many reasons to do anything.

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
Interesting, Pete, that the only nation specifically mentioned by you in your opening volley was America, and then you claim we Americans always assume we are being talked about.

It appears to me that you are your worst enemy in discussions. It also appears to me that you have some sort of anti-American burr under your saddle.

Thomas I said this qustion was pointed at all nations and not just americans, so people of every nation can comment and wont think this qustion was pointed mainly at Americans.

and then you claim we Americans always assume we are being talked about.[/qoute]

Did I? Better read my original post agin.

It appears to me that you are your worst enemy in discussions.

You are getting this from......?
Is it because maybe I spoke my opinion of the cold war and how i thought it was a waste of time?

I wouldn't call my self Anti- American. Im more of an Anti- Iqnorant American and not just Americans, I dont like people of any nation who are iqnorant. So get over your self Thomas.


[edit on 17-7-2005 by PeteTPP]

[edit on 17-7-2005 by PeteTPP]

Originally posted by PeteTPP
Lets face it, the last time some one fought for somthing they actully believed in was during WW2, when free will, free speech, the right to practise you religion, having the same rights as everyone else. When the allies fought along side ecah other to protect their beliefs and freedoms. America has been defined as the land of the free, the land of opportunity.................

along with more than several other counties in the world. I pose the qustion: When was the last time the YOUR goverment (not just america as they always assume these kind of qustions are pointed at them) did somthing you believed would help protect the ideals i have mentioned above? On a side note i would never join the army and fight for somthing i did'nt believe in, however if the nazi or some other group of people tried to take over the world and take away the things alot of us take for granted, then thats another story.

[edit on 4-5-2005 by PeteTPP]

you dont see these terrorists as wanting to install fear in people? HELLO that's what they are there for. they are trying to take away our freedom from FEAR, and we are defending that freedom. Let's face it the last time someone fought for what they truely believed in was TODAY! i served 6 years in the US Marine CORPS and believe with my whole heart what we're fighting for is the right's of now only Americans but the rights of HUMANITY!!! We're stopping someone who oppresses their people, (IE IRAQ), similar to nazi's. We're giving people the chance to goto school, the chance to vote for the first time, we're giving people the chance to goto decent hospitals, we're giving them a voice!!! to me that is something worth fighting for. and those freedoms and rights are something worth dieing for.

Originally posted by KrazyJethro
Thomas

It is possible to want your country to fail so it can see longterm change. I am anti-American is some of my opinions, but not the the detriment of our people or our ideals.

I'll question their ideals.

for many have ideals that are detrimental to America.

Lack of tolerance, lack of reverence for life.

I have seen first hand the struggles of Iraqi families, and the children of their nation.

I have seen first hand the struggles of many "3rd" world countries, and the plights and daily challenges they endure.

The hardships that are unimaginable to most Americans.

And then, I come home to see food courts in malls.

The things some people take for granted is astounding.

Road rage. traffic jams. weather. gas prices.

What motivates entire social structures to act and behave overtly negative towards things that do not really matter to the rest of humanity?

And, why can most chickens in 3rd world countries fly, when most chickens in 1st world countries can not?

Esoteric

The major downfall of our system is that it really gives us enough rope to hang ourselves.

1) We are addicted to credit reducing the ownership to the few honestly. This is not a rainy day additude, but one bred from comfort.

2) 70% of our GDP is consumption, which is unsustainable without having to expand our influence globally, which will bring more trouble we already have.

3) We have a bought and sold government of waste and girth.

Seeing the struggle of other places brings home how sick and twisted we have become in part. It is easy to sit here and chat about everything from our nice houses.

Actually Pete, I would disagree with you.

I've been spending the last 4 years heavily working on my own political ideology, as well as gaining more and more support. [In fact, enough to run for Parliament in 2/3rds of the U.K. by next election if it is ready.]

There are so many people, ready, willing and wanting however it always falls down to a few to lead them. It is a sad state of existance but many people do not yet have the 'back bone' they are born with for one reason or another.

Sure people sign up for and fight for what they think is right but not necessarily what others think is right. But in all honestly, it does not matter once you are over there and the bullets are flying over your head and the mortar shells are landing all over the place.

I just re-joined the military last Friday (I know I must be crazy) but I believe that what we are doing in Iraq and Afghanistan is the right thing to do. I mean look at Pat Tillman, for those of you that might not know Tillman he was a PRO-NFL player for the Arizona Cardinals. He gave up a multi-million dollar deal to join the US Army with his brother, became a Ranger and sent to Afghanistan. Why? Because he believed that they and he were doing the right thing.

So it is, IMO anyway, a matter of opinion. I believe in the cause and I will not be pissed at those that do not. That is what is great about being free and having that power to agree or disagree.

By the way, he went from 3.2 Million to 32,000.00$ a year for what he believed in. That to me is a Hero.

But I do understand the basic question of the thread, I just think it could be spun in many different directions.

what about east timor? well it wasnt much of a fight, but it was for wat the east timorese belived in

plus some oil, but not much!!!

If they believed in the cause then that is all they needed.

So wait, am I to understand from the OP that the Vietnamese who fought against Americans in the Vietnam war did not fight for what they believed in? OR that druglords and kingpins fighting of government agents in order to traffic drugs aren't fighting for what they believe in? Is this how ignorant and educatedless society has become?

I mean, I'd love to shoot the IRS agents who try to raid my home because I haven't been paying taxes, but I know they will only come after me more ravenous and rapethirsty than before. Somethings in life might require a large group effort rather than an individual man or a few people, such as those who fight against eminent domain.

That doesn't mean people don't fight for what they believe in, and that it must be violent.

"Fight" is such a broad term is it not?

What I am and was talking about was war fare, not illegal activity such as not paying taxes or drug trafficking. I guess I did not read too much into this thread.

When it comes to external enemies, there is no want in finding volunteers to go kill and be killed.

But when the enemy is the state itself relentlessly chips away at all we value and slowly enslaves us all day by day, we happily raise our arms to our hearts to pledge allegience to it, pausing only briefly to argue over wether such a pledge should contain references to deities or not, but otherwise giving the act no second thought.

Should you really give your life, or even your allegience to an entity which is actively trying to enslave you at every opportunity?

Originally posted by spamandham


Should you really give your life, or even your allegience to an entity which is actively trying to enslave you at every opportunity?

Haven't we done this already?

Aren't we all enslaved to the ideologies of the society we are raised in, even before we fully comprehend the society that is defining us, and the expectations of the society?

It is an illusion created by our own smug perceptions that our allegience is our choice. This statement is undeniable when the individual's perception is ruled by the first implanted command of "self preservation" = "self preserve" = "self before serve" = the only true information being integrated into the conscious is that information which is most self serving.

Think of it.

If the information being presented to you in your experiences is not self serving in any way shape or form, then are you really going to pay attention and take it ALL in, and integrate it and process it fully?

No.



People only see what it was they knew to look for in the first place.