The Hill Abduction Case

Gazrok - nice post.
I'll note that there are various sites that have the complete or edited versions of one of Betty's last interviews. For her part, she had her say about the rash of purported alien abduction cases after theirs went public. A pretty feisty woman often brisstling against many of the abductions accounts as frauds and simply pandering to the media. Throughout the interviews there was always the sound of a modesty or reluctancy in thinking too much about it. It's a very impressive story.

[edit on 13-1-2006 by nullster]

Those are some good points... Even Betty was always reluctant to believe abduction accounts....and only did so after personally speaking with the ones involved, and if their story felt right, etc. She seems to have had a pretty good knack for feretting out the phonies...

I think a lot of skeptics overlook the fact that it took a while for the Hills to come forward, and they only did so when the story came out unintentionally, and only then to set the record straight....

I have also read up on this case, oin various books and resources. It is a very solid case. Why would a ex-military officer lie about something so outlandish? He had to know it would only attract negative attention. I know ppl that have had UFO sightings and possible abductions, they will nto come out, for fear of ruining their lives via the media.

There are surely many more cases like this that never see the light of day, for various reasons.


This is a fabulous post. Very graphic and through.

A+++


WAY 2 GO

GAZROK ~~ Do you have an online resource for that interview???
Please, thanks

I did this a while back, so will have to look, though any search on Betty Hill Interview transcript should turn them up....

I havent been here long, but I do notice when someone have a GREAT post! You've got it!!!
Will be checking this one for new information.....

Very nice post, along with the UK Roswell incident this is definetly a favorite simply because of the star map drawing. that alone is very hard to call a fraud, imo.

Great post Gazrok, I like you became interested in this case because of the map. I’ve recently got a copy of Marjorie Fish’s Journey Into the Hill Star Map.

I found this thread on ATS and was expecting that someone would’ve debunked it...

nobody has!!! (even the ever-clever Byrd!!)

As pointed out earlier, the debunking article By Terence Dickinson (with commentary by Jeffrey L. Kretsch, Carl Sagan, Steven Soter, Robert Schaeffer, Marjorie Fish, David Saunders, and Michael Peck) does little to debunk the validity of the star map, but rather reinforces the maps validity!

However, the article itself is very informative for astronomy neophyte such as myself. Here are some of the points made (there are many) that I feel greatly increases the validity of the map…

During their examination of the map, Mitchell and some of
his students inserted the positions of hundreds of nearby stars
into a computer and had various space vistas brought up on a
cathode ray tube readout. They requested the computer to put
them in a position out beyond Zeta Reticuli looking toward the
sun. From this viewpoint the map pattern obtained by Marjorie
Fish was duplicated with virtually no variations. Mitchell noted
an important and previously unknown fact first pointed out by Ms.
Fish: The stars in the map are almost in a plane; that is, they
fill a wheel shaped volume of space that makes star hopping from
one to another easy and the logical way to go -- and that is what
is implied by the map that Betty Hill allegedly saw.

www.skepticfiles.org...

Later in the article, the same team at Ohio State
University in Columbus discusses the odds of Hill getting this right.

The odds are about 10,000 to 1 against a random
configuration matching perfectly with Betty Hill's map," Saunders
reports. "But the star group identified by Marjorie Fish isn't
quite a perfect match, and the odds consequently reduce to about
1,000 to 1. That is, there is one chance in 1,000 that the
observed degree of congruence would occur in the volume of space
we are discussing. (same link as above)

I went to my friend’s house (a astronomy buff) to see if I could line up the stars like Fish’s model. (my knowledge of the software is insufficient) It seems the creators of the Starry Night software have a sence of humor, they added this info to the Reticulum Constellation entry.



Good stuff!! Thanks guys! The AFB radar confirmation is amazing@!
And a well deserved bump to this thread.

few questions…

1. When was Zeta Reticuli added to the Gliese Index? When did we discover that Zeta 1 and Zeta 2 were G2 type stars like out sun?

2. Was Zeta Reticuli discussed as a possible location for the visitor’s home planet before the Hill’s case?

3. Is there a general contempt towards the map amongst astronomers? (see Starry Night Joke above)



[edit on 20/11/06 by ConspiracyNut23]

It’s not the Peter Huston's Interview mentioned in the OP however, there’s a Betty Hill interview by Cynthia Siegel on Google Video (55 minutes, looks a lot olser than 1998) It’s all in there.

video.google.com...

I also have followed the Hills experience for years.
I did run across one issue
I had never heard mentioned before
and would love some added info if possible!

The Hills had numerous other recalled abduction incidents after the initial event, and were also the first such account of multiple abductions.

GREAT POST & THREAD!!!!

The odds are about 10,000 to 1 against a random
configuration matching perfectly with Betty Hill's map," Saunders
reports. "But the star group identified by Marjorie Fish isn't
quite a perfect match, and the odds consequently reduce to about
1,000 to 1. That is, there is one chance in 1,000 that the
observed degree of congruence would occur in the volume of space
we are discussing. (same link as above)

Ahh...but, if you then include the data of the COLOR of the stars being correct, I'd wager your odds statistics are more like 1 in a million or more... Something the scientists conveniently omitted in their odds projection...

Barney Hill story -- well I suggest the Hill occurrence. At the time (1962?), they were a married couple of Black and White and I would suppose attention then was not what inter-mixed couples would be in a hurry to speak of.

But something happened to them on their way back from Canada and the tapes Iv'e recorded from the original Dr Simon hypnosis transgression interviews since made public are scary, especially concerning Barney.

The book 'Interrupted Journey' makes for interesting reading certainly. The beep-beep-beep and the three small circles on the trunk of their car -- is most unusual to -- todays types of remembered abduction cases. There becoming cognisant after driving a stretch down the road afterwards is not (OZ case 1-2).

Dallas

Originally posted by Dallas

...

But something happened to them on their way back from Canada and the tapes Iv'e recorded from the original Dr Simon hypnosis transgression interviews since made public are scary, especially concerning Barney.

...
a stretch down the road afterwards is not (OZ case 1-2).

Dallas

Hi Dallas,

There is one thread running throughout this ... er ... thread that interests me greatly. I would like to see transcriptions and time lines for "ALL" of the hypnosis sessions.

There are a couple of, what I'll call, misconceptions regarding the hypnosis.

First and foremost, the original psychiatrist that hypnotized them has been lauded as being a foremost hypnotist, based on his reputation as a psychiatrist. That ain't necessarily so. To a psychiatrist, hypnosis is simply another tool, and not one that most psychiatrists rely on or use too heavily.

I would be interested in seeing his hypnotic induction methods and the way in which he got Barney and Betty Hill guided to the incident. I would then, further, be very interested in seeing who, when, and the same set of "hows", were performed by any/all of the others.

I am not attempting to debunk the Hill case. Far better minds than mine are convinced of its veracity. I am simply interested in seeing whether or not I can ferret out times and places in the various hypnotic sessions where mis-direction could have occurred.

If you can direct me to where I can find any/all of the transcripts of these sessions, or better yet, actual recordings, it would be good to use to set a baseline.

Thanks and a hat tip for bringing up the subject before even got to the thread.

reply to post by Gazrok


That was a brilliant read! Thanks alot for taking all that time and energy to post it. Brilliant. :-)

Originally posted by Gazrok

The odds are about 10,000 to 1 against a random
configuration ......of congruence would occur in the volume of space
we are discussing. (same link as above)

Ahh...but, if you then include the data of the COLOR of the stars being correct, I'd wager your odds statistics are more like 1 in a million or more...

Something the scientists conveniently omitted in their odds projection...

Excellent point Gazrok!

Originally posted by skem64

Originally posted by Gazrok

The odds are about 10,000 to 1 against a random
configuration ......of congruence would occur in the volume of space
we are discussing. (same link as above)

Ahh...but, if you then include the data of the COLOR of the stars being correct, I'd wager your odds statistics are more like 1 in a million or more...

Something the scientists conveniently omitted in their odds projection...

Excellent point Gazrok!

WoW! A blast from the past, and I am al the more glad for it. An excellent thread by the OP.

thanks for reminding..

reply to post by Gazrok


this case was a while ago. several decades correct?

reply to post by Para Bellum


i wish they had video of their encounter.

reply to post by AboveTopSecretX


The case happened in the early 1960s and is regarded as one of the best. A good book about it is Captured by Kathleen Mardsen and Stanton Friedman. It has a lot of new material in it and also goes over what the skeptics and debunkers have to say about it.

It has physical evidence, radar confirmation of an unknown object in the area at the same time by Pease AFB, Barney's drawing of the object through memory (he remembered it without hypnotic regression) and the star map by Betty Hill.

Hi
Well done to the Original threadstarter Gazrok for posting up all this information and research on the Hill case. It was fantastic to read back through this.
I thought I would let you know a couple of things about the original post. I think it needs updating. The threadstarters initial idea of wanting to provide a factual and informative read is spot on, however since his first post in 2005 I think some of the links have been removed.

Here are the ones I'm having trouble with:

*Betty and Barney Hill (with their dog Delsey) - the link is supposedly from
www.paranormalplace.com but i just get a 'about:blank' loading page with no picture.

*Just after the bluebook entry there is a link from NICAP.Org that brings up a 404 Not Found error message.

*The Picture of Donald Keyhoe brings up a Page Load error (i'm assuming the website hallrichard.com is now closed).

* The Labelled starmap from www.kochkyborg.de... brings back a 404-Not Found message.

* The Picture of Stanton Friedman brings back a 404 not found as well.

Although some of these pictures might be easily found on the web via google. I thought i'd bring it to the mods attention, in case you wanted to update the original post to include new links. It might be that if you can get the images yourself and store them on a server or place where the site wont close down (i.e your own) you could still give credit underneath the image from the original user/contributor.

It was good to see the comparison of the star system as rendered by the computer and drawn out by Betty Hill.

Finally my apologies if someone already mentioned about those links, although I've read the initial threadstarters post I haven't yet read the other following 4 pages of comments.

Bravo though to Gazrok.