Symbols on U.S. Currency...more than just coincidence?

Originally posted by Guy Kawasaki
The above is pedestrian. What evidence do you have to back up your claim that Freemasonry is not evil?

It is not up to us to disprove YOUR claims. That's the most ignorant argument I've ever heard "You can't disprove my claim, so it must be true". You are the one making the accusations, the burden of proof lies on you.

What evidence to you have to disprove the quotes and information on that conspiracy website, other than just spouting off, "I have visited..." Blah blah? Your comments have done nothing to refute anything said on that website and thus your reply is insufficient.

If your just joining us, the Masons, namely Sebatwerk and Senrak have once again ganged people and ignited a heated discussion in the direction of Britney Spears. If you wheel back, you can see the good ol' Senrak and his use of "BWA HA HA HA" was the catalyst where I interjected. In order to further this in the proper direction, the issue is symbolism on American currency and we have more than established that the symbol has universal meaning and that we are not accepting what the treasury board says about it; though considering.

What can also be noted is the comments regarding the site posted re symbolism on the previous page from a conspiracy website has just been labelled dubious with no backing. The hypocricy on the 2 stooges oozes.

[edit on 16-5-2005 by Guy Kawasaki]

Originally posted by Guy Kawasaki
What evidence to you have to disprove the quotes and information on that conspiracy website, other than just spouting off, "I have visited..." Blah blah? Your comments have done nothing to refute anything said on that website and thus your reply is insufficient.

That website is taking the EXACT SAME quotes that get posted on here, and misinterpreting them, just like everyone on here does. As a matter of fact, I just realized that when people post that crap here, they're getting it from there! Those quotes have been explained, debunked and demystified MANY times here on ATS. I can dig up any of those threads for you if you like. So when I see a site taking the same quoptes and trying to use them to prove Freemasonry is evil, I can safely say that since it didn't work here and it won't work there, the site is full of the same B.S. that all other conspiracy sites are. They do the EXACT same thing!

If your just joining us, the Masons, namely Sebatwerk and Senrak have once again ganged people and ignited a heated discussion

Actually, we are simply telling you guys the truth about Freemasonry. You're just mad because the TRUTH doesn't coincide with what you believe.

we have more than established that the symbol has universal meaning and that we are not accepting what the treasury board says about it; though considering.

That's probably the first thing that I have seen come from you that's made any sense. You can actually admit that there's not enough evidence to prove it one way or another. Shows you're finally thinking like an adult.

What can also be noted is the comments regarding te site posted re symbolism on the previous page from a conspiracy website has just been labelled dubious with no backing.

There's no comments in that site regarding symbolism. Only quotes from Freemasons that "prove" that Freemasonry is evil. Gimme a break.

The hypocricy on the 2 stooges oozes.

Lovely. First I'm "Sebatstroke yourself" and Senrak is "Senwreckage", now we're stooges. Maybe so, but at least I don't have to resort to insulting people with opposing viewpoints, just because they have made a valid point and backed me into a corner. I take back what I said, you need to grow up.

If anyone is going to "Deny ignorance" you'd better have some counter evidence. To prove the evidence is less than credible, please point out where the author went wrong in thier logic. Tell me why the source is not credible, and show me that other side of the argument, with some counter evidence. Maybe that will keep you from resorting to a dicsussion about character, and encourage us to stop wasting time with this nonsense. If you cannot refute the source, then that is your loss, and maybe you should just accept that it is POSSIBLE, and the claim might be valid.

I've seen ED posting tons of websites, and allthough some seemed a little bit conspiracy oriented, there is good sound logic amongst the text, as well as evidence that is cited properly, and seems to have merit. Remember what I said about evidence. If the illuminati exists, then logically there should be no conclusive evidence, because they would probably cover their tracks.

My argument to all you non-believers, you are making demands that you cannot expect us all to meet, logically. Which seems very CONVIENIENT to your side of the argument, does it not?



[edit on 16-5-2005 by Eyeofhorus]

The distinguishing thing about the paranoid style is not that its exponents see conspiracies or plots here and there in history, but that they regard a "vast" or "gigantic" conspiracy as the motive force in historical events. History is a conspiracy. --Richard Hofstadter, The Paranoid Style In American Politics And Other Essays, 1967

Counted up the evidence presented by both sides, this includes websites and quotes.

Conspirators-22 pieces

Anti-conspirators-8 pieces

7 pieces of evidence posted by enigmatic debris (which are very compelling claims to that side of the argument), have gone unrefuted, in lieu of the childish and ridiculous posts that everyone insitsts on typing. Are we afraid to attack the real issues here? Assuming that 50% of OUR information is incorrect or biased, we still have you beat 11 to 8. If you all want to go and get technical about it.

I'm not trying to spur anything on, as far as a fight, but eyeofhorus has a wonderful, insightful point.

I think it's time to seperate. As in, boards for & against conspiracies. That way, we could spend time researching these theories instead of defending them. Some of the world's best amature conspiranoics come to this site to fight. I see a mojor problem with this.

Originally posted by sebatwerk
Freemasonry used for nefarious purposes fromm the beginning? A rroadway for nefarious activities? Actually NO EVIDENCE for anything of the sort has been posted. Why don't you be the first and enlighten us? Do you even know what youre talking about. Please provide some credible evidence before you claim something to be fact.

Like I said, there has been plenty of evidence posted. I really don't care about posting any cause chances are, it's been posted already and you've already at it. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah........and stuff.

Originally posted by Guy Kawasaki
If your just joining us, the Masons, namely Sebatwerk and Senrak have once again ganged people

[YAWN]

and ignited a heated discussion

You're the only one "heated" guy

in the direction of Britney Spears.

Nope. I would NEVER do THAT! (Sandra Bullock perhaps...but Britney Spears...NEVER)

If you wheel back, you can see the good ol' Senrak and his use of "BWA HA HA HA" was the catalyst where I interjected.

Guy, I'm sorry that it hurts your feelings, but I simply HAD to laugh. I find you terribly entertaining and quite a stress-reliever. Thanks!

In order to further this in the proper direction, the issue is symbolism on American currency and we have more than established that the symbol has universal meaning and that we are not accepting what the treasury board says about it; though considering.

The question remains. WHY in the WORLD would these symbols mean ANYTHING other than what the Treasury Department says? To WHOM are they "secret" symbols? What would having secret symbols on a piece of currency MEAN? Does one need a decoder ring to read them? This whole theory is borderline nuts!

What can also be noted is the comments regarding the site posted re symbolism on the previous page from a conspiracy website has just been labelled dubious with no backing. The hypocricy on the 2 stooges oozes.

Did it take long to think that up?



[edit on 16-5-2005 by Guy Kawasaki]

Originally posted by Eyeofhorus
If anyone is going to "Deny ignorance" you'd better have some counter evidence. To prove the evidence is less than credible, please point out where the author went wrong in thier logic. Tell me why the source is not credible, and show me that other side of the argument, with some counter evidence. Maybe that will keep you from resorting to a dicsussion about character, and encourage us to stop wasting time with this nonsense. If you cannot refute the source, then that is your loss, and maybe you should just accept that it is POSSIBLE, and the claim might be valid.

Like I already stated, the quotes on that website have been discussed, debunked and dispelled here on ATS AND other websites as well. There's no reason to repeat all that posting, when ED could just as easily look for those threads here on ATS or do a google search, realize that his link is B.S., and get on with his life.

And you REALLY need to start thinking about what is TRULY evidence, and what is merely circumstancial. VERY few times have I seen anything come from these guys that constitutes real, CONCLUSIVE evidence... evidence that would be permissible in court.

Has anyone found any kind of hidden messages on our US coins?

It is almost an easy way out to point to the search button to refute that website. What is one example of something wrong in that text in which the link points to? Again, you guys have said nothing that refutes anything in that text and Sebatwerk has mearely asked the same questions we are asking without any furtherence to you guys' position. As such, once again your replies are wholey insufficient.

Brass Tax IMHO:

Given the amount of very similar symbolism interspersed throughout our society, from Film production logos to Coroporate ones, I feel that symbol on the American dollar bill has the same meaning as it does when used in other areas of society: it has submerged far too many times for it to be sluffed off as a mere coincidence now. As it is necessarily part of major media coroporations, international production companies and large, now international food chains, I associate coroporate Globalisation and thus world power/domination with it.

Why is the Information Awareness Office using the exact same symbol?

freemasonry.bcy.ca...

CBS

www.cbsnews.com...

ALCAN

These guys produce aluminum operating in some 56 countries. They have contracts for aluminum in pharmaceutical packaging. Big business and of course, the all seeing eye and pyramid make up their logo.

www.alcan.com...

AOL The largest internet provider since the beginning of the web.

www.aol.com...

COLUMBIA PICTURES. Scroll to bottom to see the latest 1993 edition of the logo.

www.reelclassics.com...

SONY ERICCSON

www.sonyericsson.com...

TIME WARNER CABLE. Of note here is the blatant use of the eye. Intersting observation: if one looks at the parental control channel changer icon around the mid-lower screen, it looks exactly like King Tut's gold head overlay.

www.timewarnercable.com...

HBO

www.hbo.com...

FCC

www.fcc.gov...

TACO BELL

www.tacobell.com...

If it does mean Globalization and thus power, it certainly should be no revelation. Corporations are ruthless, monopolizing enitities. Governments lie, rape and pilage for position. The fact that the two have come together and have been together is obvious. Do we need logos to tell us that Governments and Coroporations just want us for the generation of money and labour so as to construct their empire and maintain their well-being? Pearl Harbour. Rotten Vaccinations. Iraq. JFK. R. Kennedy. MKULTRA. Federal Reserve Bank. Vietnam. Father and son President in the same decade. Our current lives brought to you by the same people that have spent 10's of billions and continue to spend that in Iraq. But Alan Greenspan is now in a fret about the dire situation with Social Security. Oil first, then the people.

The way it looks is as if the symbolism is being introduced and as the years pass and we debate about it, that defines the indoctrination period and thus the preparation for acceptance. If you don't accept that our current Governments are insatiably corrupt and dispicable, and that large Corporations are driven completely by greed...

No longer should we be distracted by the chaos. Our Government and Corporations are directly doing wrong and we are constantly peppered with political distrations. I feel that this symbol is no exception. Better us trying to figure out the logo than prosecuting our Gov.

[edit on 16-5-2005 by Guy Kawasaki]

[edit on 16-5-2005 by Guy Kawasaki]

There is somthing sinister about a human/taco hybrid.

Originally posted by sebatwerk

Like I already stated, the quotes on that website have been discussed, debunked and dispelled here on ATS AND other websites as well. There's no reason to repeat all that posting, when ED could just as easily look for those threads here on ATS or do a google search, realize that his link is B.S., and get on with his life.

And you REALLY need to start thinking about what is TRULY evidence, and what is merely circumstancial. VERY few times have I seen anything come from these guys that constitutes real, CONCLUSIVE evidence... evidence that would be permissible in court.

What if I do a google search....well maybe I'll find some other wacky sites that are biased toward the oppisite viewpoint. Maybe I'll find a bunch of websites that do nothing more than you are doing seb, they point out how ridiculous the theory is, and then they totally skirt the issue, with clever, locigal jargon. This constitutes dispelling the myth? I dont think so. Of all the CREDIBLE sources I found, really I am right back where I started. These sites are the ones that point out flaws on BOTH sides, and basically they say that there is no way of really knowing. But they provide EVIDENCE from both sides. These are the ones that don't claim they know everything, therefore they don't draw a conclusion.

Now that's logical.

Originally posted by Eyeofhorus
What if I do a google search....well maybe I'll find some other wacky sites that are biased toward the oppisite viewpoint. Maybe I'll find a bunch of websites that do nothing more than you are doing seb, they point out how ridiculous the theory is, and then they totally skirt the issue, with clever, locigal jargon. This constitutes dispelling the myth? I dont think so. Of all the CREDIBLE sources I found, really I am right back where I started. These sites are the ones that point out flaws on BOTH sides, and basically they say that there is no way of really knowing. But they provide EVIDENCE from both sides. These are the ones that don't claim they know everything, therefore they don't draw a conclusion.

Sigh.... Ok, perhaps I was mistaken about this site. I apologize. In going through the page and reading the content to pick out statements, and am unable to find anything overtly anti-masonic. It's actually a pretty decent site.

It is mostly talking about Freemasonry's ties to occultism, and the quotes from Pike and Hall at the top weren't being used in the manner I thought. They are actually being used in the manner which was intended by the author, which is a bit of a surprise. But the site is actually a pretty fair look at Freemasonry's (sometimes unknown, sometimes unwilling) ties to occultism.

I stand corrected, and I apologize. Hey, we all jump to conclusions sometimes.

I stand corrected, and I apologize. Hey, we all jump to conclusions sometimes.

Understandable, it gets to the best of us sometimes. I'm very glad you acknowledge this. I am definitely guilty of this at times.

[edit on 16-5-2005 by Eyeofhorus]

Kumbiya my lord, Kumbiya..........Kumbiya my lord, Kumbiya.

Now then, if the site has credibility in the eyes of all parties, what effect does it have on the actual material? What does it say & is it true?

Originally posted by Enigmatic Debris
Now then, if the site has credibility in the eyes of all parties, what effect does it have on the actual material? What does it say & is it true?

Well, it doesn't really do much more than talk about the different occultists and occult authors that were involved with, one way or another, or wrote about, the fraternity. It seems very accurate, and doesn't really try to make Freemasonry look BAD by having been inherently associated with occultism, just states it as a fact... which it was

I seem to remember someone saying Qabalists don't have anything to do with Freemasonry. This is from the site though.....

William Wynn Westcott (December 17, 1848 - July, 1925), East London coroner, a Freemason, Theosophist, Qabalist, Supreme Magus of the Societas Rosicruciana and founding member (and organizing genius) behind the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn. Westcott, along with MacGregor Mathers, initiated Golden Dawn students into the study of the Qabalah, Alchemy, Astrology, Geomantic and Tarot Divination, Tattwa Vision and the Pentagram Ritual...................
Docteur Gérard (Anaclet Vincent) Encausse (1865 - 1916), a Parisian spiritualist; Theosophist; Qabalist; chief of the Kabbalistic Order of the Rose-Croix; founder of the Order of the Martinists, based on two extinct Masonic Rites; an OTO initiate; a Golden Dawn occultist; and an adherent of Esoteric Christianity of the Gnostic Church.

I seems that Masons form the late 1800's to the mid 1900's were involved with them, among many others that also have accusational Illuminati ties

Sebatwerk:

You have acquired respect today. What do others think the symbol on the bill means? As well as the eye in corporations?