NEWS: Iraqi Leaders Seek Deal Amid Bloodshed

Insurgents continue to attempt to disrupt the formation of the first democratically elected government of Iraq with violence, killing at least 23 Iraqis Monday. Also, the U.S. Military has launched a search for two Marine jets from the USS Carl Vinson aircraft carrier which were reported missing while flying in support of operations in Iraq.



The enemy knows that their days are numbered in Iraq, and are now fighting back the way that cornered rats will. They will continue to try to undermine democracy in the region, and will not relent until they have either seized the reins of power, or until their numbers have been decimated to a level where they are no longer a major threat.

To bring democracy to a people that have never known the freedom of choice is a daunting task, made even more so by the fact that so many are fighting so hard to continue in the oppression of their own people. Now that we are committed to this course, I sincerely hope that we have the courage and stamina to see it through.

And last, but certainly not least, let us remember those missing pilots, and their loved ones who must be worried about them tonight. I hope that they are found safe and sound.


Related News Links:
news.yahoo.com
www.guardian.co.uk
abcnews.go.com

Related AboveTopSecret.com Discussion Threads:

Two U.S. F-18s reportedly collide over Iraq

[edit on 2/5/05 by Roadscholar]

[edit on 2/5/05 by Roadscholar]

Two pilots missing? Nice find I must have missed that story and I like wise hope they turn out safe.

As for the lead in I really do not know what to say. Obviously they do not want a new government formed, just so they can promote their own agenda which is killing innocent victims hoping that the government will change their minds.

Seems like those rats as you put it are doing more killing of innocent people then anyone else. That is very sad when someone who proclaims they are a religion of peace actually go out and kill, rape and kidnap indivduals who are actually out to help someone. I am talking about the young lady who was teaching as I recall, I could be wong on that, but that is not the point. The real point is the needless killing of innocent victims saying they are doing it as a jihad. i.e. holy war.



[edit on 5/2/2005 by shots]

There was also a report of a mid-air collision in southern Iraq! This may explain why they are missing.

I believe that someone has submitted that as a breaking news story now! Hopefully, more details will unfold.

There BETTER NOT be ANY news of Marines being tortured and beheaded or I will leave my usually rational mind and revert back to the blind and deaf ultra-hawk that I once was.

God bless them wherever they are.

Nice story Road. Thanks.

Keep us updated!

Things have been crazy in Iraq all weekend. Car bombs and suicide bombers have been sowing chaos and destruction all over the country, in a last-ditch attempt to terrorize the populace into submission. They only want to take over and continue to treat the people as subjects.

They cannot accept that this is done here. These people have found democracy, and I believe that they will fight to keep it!

Most of the victims of the violence have been Iraqi, though. Here is a bit more from the story:

Two car bombs in Baghdad killed at least nine more Iraqis. One exploded in an upscale shopping district in southern Baghdad and set fire to a six-story apartment building. Six civilians were killed and seven wounded in the explosion, which missed a police patrol, said police Lt. Col. Salman Abdul Karim al-Fartosi. As firefighters fought the blaze, thick black smoke and flames rose from the ground floor.

In eastern Baghdad, a car bomb exploded near a passport office, killing three Iraqis, including two policemen, and wounding six, three of them also policemen, said police Lt. Col. Hassan Chalob.

Curiosity here- how did you (Delta) know that Roads posted this story? It is still 'in submission?'

This being a conspiracy site and all- is there one on news stories?

On the story- that's really a biased view.

It's O.K. to be biased (I am) but such flagrant bias on a news story leaves me a little flat, if you know what I mean.

But I see nothing biased about reporting the fact that there is violent warfare being waged in Iraq right now. People are losing their lives, man! Don't you think that that is a relevant topic?

And, perhaps the gentleman figured that I'd posted this because I replied to the first post?

Both of your "points" here are utterly meaningless, but thank you for sharing.

Roads said
Both of your "points" here are utterly meaningless, but thank you for sharing.

Lastly, thank you.

Firstly- by YOUR judgment?


I think it odd, at a minimum, that you could conclude what you have. As to my first post it is fait accompli. Good try at diversion.

The second post:

The enemy knows that their days are numbered in Iraq, and are now fighting back the way that cornered rats will.

That's judgmental and biased.

This enemy that you refer to knew there days were numbered from day one. They are not fighting to win (in the sense of becoming 'victors').

To bring democracy to a people that have never known the freedom of choice is a daunting task, made even more so by the fact that so many are fighting so hard to continue in the oppression of their own people.

(emphasis added)

Puleeze-

The insurgents don't want to oppress anyone- they want to kill people and force concessions. The oppressors are who?

You wrote that like the insurgents are Saddam's minions.

Joe said: This enemy that you refer to knew there days were numbered from day one. They are not fighting to win (in the sense of becoming 'victors').

This is a last-ditch, all out effort to prevent the formation of a new and stable government in Iraq. Why would they fight so hard to prevent this, if the ultimate aim was to seize the reins of power for their own party or faction?

Haven't you read anything of the raging violence that has been occuring? At least 140 people have been killed in five days of car bombings and suicide attacks.

Most of those killed have been Iraqi.

These terrorists ARE oppressing them, with violence and death. They clearly seek to defeat democracy in it's infancy. What else could be their aim but to attempt to install some oppressive regime with law based upon the most radical interpretation of a Muslim dogma rather than upon the expressed wishes of the people?

This is from the source article of my original post:

But even with Sunnis in the Cabinet, Iraqi insurgents have made clear there will be no letup in the unrelenting violence of recent weeks. The country's most feared terror group, al-Qaida in Iraq, has posted statements on the Internet saying any Iraqi government is a puppet of the U.S.-led coalition and that it will attack any Sunnis who join it.

So, what form of government will these savages accept? None (see above)

Will they simply keep killing until they are all dead?

If so, then their days truly are numbered.

Roads said
This is a last-ditch, all out effort to prevent the formation of a new and stable government in Iraq. Why would they fight so hard to prevent this, if the ultimate aim was to seize the reins of power for their own party or faction?

I disagree. A lot of the destruction going on is positioning for concessions. We don't know what is being agreed to behind the scenes.

As to why they fight so hard- what else are they to do?

Can't to to the US, Europe is not a target.

With thousands and thousands of hoodlums and trained murder's running around the forces of destruction have to keep them focused or a civil war breaks out.

While it is chaotic at the present, a civil war would be worse and the insurgent leaders know this. They have trained thugs they have to use up.

Look to Rwanda as a prime example.

These people keep strapping bombs to themselves and driving bombs into buildings and such. This, coupled with the efforts of Iraqi and Coalition troops will eventually decimate their numbers to a manageable level.

We will defeat these insurgent forces eventually, and a stable society will be allowed to develop in peace....eventually.

This is my hope, that our efforts there will not have been in vain and that democracy will take root and flourish. A new era of freedom and enlightenment spreading throughout the Middle East from this branch that we have planted.

This is what our troops are fighting for.

The final section of a news submission is supposed to contain the submitter's personal take and opinion on the story, i.e. it's supposed to be biased. There is nothing wrong with a submission that includes bias in that section and people should stop complaining when one does. This is from the official ATSNN submission guidelines:

Story Body

Insurgents continue to attempt to disrupt the formation of the first democratically elected government of Iraq with violence, killing at least 23 Iraqis Monday. Also, the U.S. Military has launched a search for two Marine jets from the USS Carl Vinson aircraft carrier which were reported missing while flying in support of operations in Iraq.

Biased?

Maybe-

Bias I understand- the few news stories I submitted always got NO Bias votes.

But is it neutral? Reads more OP/ED to me.

More to the point is the knowledge of the the poster's identity and the overly biased conclusory remarks.

What is the subject?

a deal with the insurgents, that is the subject. Where is any analysis of this?

I see no analysis all- just some rants relating to 'rats.'

When you throw up the rules you are expected to adhere to them, right?

I didn't bring up 'rules,' I brought up that the poster is overly biased. Is this agenda driven? I don't know.

joe says
I brought up that the poster is overly biased. Is this agenda driven? I don't know.

Only the intro is not supposed to be biased and it was not. The comments section can be as biased as the author wants or didn't you know that?

Read the intro again.

Insurgents continue to attempt to disrupt the formation of the first democratically elected government of Iraq with violence, killing at least 23 Iraqis Monday. Also, the U.S. Military has launched a search for two Marine jets from the USS Carl Vinson aircraft carrier which were reported missing while flying in support of operations in Iraq.

Now show me where the story is biased.

As for your comments on how the author knew who posted the story, I thought it was rather obvious by roadsscholars answer to one of the posts when he commented by saying something along the line perhaps that is the reason the planes are missing.

So no the story is not biased and no there is no conspiracy.



[edit on 5/3/2005 by shots]

shots said
So no the story is not biased and no there is no conspiracy.

I suppose this means everyone should check with YOU first?

Judgment call on your part, and what if . . . see where that leads?

I think it (the author's comments below the story) were overly biased and this is NOT 'OP/ED according to shots.'

Good diversion (on your part) though

joe says
I think it (the author's comments below the story) were overly biased and this is NOT 'OP/ED according to shots.'

Good diversion (on your part) though

Why not read the posting guidelines again it is clear you to not understand the author is allowed to say what ever they want in that section.

There seems to have been some mistaken "NO" votes for perceived biased in the submission comments (below the news snippet). Opinions and analysis are encourage in this area, and bias from the submitter is acceptable, as long as the headline and intro are neutral.

One more time-

Opinions and analysis are encourage . . .

a - - -n - - -d

Analysis

This does NOT say 'or'

Want to pick apart what the word/term analysis means now?

joe blurts out
One more time-

quote: Opinions and analysis are encourage . . .
a - - -n - - -d

Analysis

This does NOT say 'or'

It does not have to say or it clearly says opinions are encouraged only the intro has to have no bias and it did not.

That means the comments section is the place to put whatever kind of spin the author wants to on the story. If you have a problem with understanding it, contact SO I am sure he can set you straight.

There is an update on a portion of this story now breaking apparently the two planes had collided, no hostile fire was detected and one of the pilots has been found.

Body of pilot found