Two U.S. F-18s reportedly collide over Iraq

Originally posted by Souljah
I dont understand your Point, Amuk.

Thats truly the sad part Souljah is that you don't.

You seem like an intelligent person and rightfully so point out that we shouldn't believe every thing the Government says but have no problem believing ANYTHING someone with a website puts up as long as it goes along with YOUR AGENDA which ALL AMERICA is bad ALL MUSLIM is good.

I really don't think you are so naive as to think we are the ONLY bad guys here but you continue to paint us as such. You CLAIM to care for the Iraqis but instead of trying to boost the semi-working Government which is reaching out to the insurgents you post BS threads of how we are just walking through the streets slaughtering and raping men women children and donkeys.

Your interest is NOT in helping stop the suffering in Iraq or in seeing a peaceful outcome its in continuing to push your anti-American agenda no matter how many die as a result

Even Tommy Franks and the Leaders of the New Government AND 99% of the Iraqis are tired of pointing fingers and pushing the blame around while more people die every day at the hands of BOTH SIDES. They just want to get on with their own lives and live in peace its just people like you (and the religious whacos, and Haliburton, etc) that have an intrest in keeping the blood flowing

It seems that if most of those fighting and dying are ready to stop that the rest of us safe and fat in our homes would at LEAST support the only real chance at the moment

To be blunt you are as much of a hypocrite as George Bush and Dick Chenny.

hey the yugoslavian army downed a stealth bomber with kalaschnikovs

PEACE OF CAKE

ps: maybe they used one of those laser keychains

Originally posted by Amuk
Thats truly the sad part Souljah is that you don't.

You seem like an intelligent person and rightfully so point out that we shouldn't believe every thing the Government says but have no problem believing ANYTHING someone with a website puts up as long as it goes along with YOUR AGENDA which ALL AMERICA is bad ALL MUSLIM is good.

Incorrect.
I am not Anti American - I am Anti CURRENT American Goverment, and the things they do and then call them Freedom. I am Anti American, if they supported numerous Terrorist Regimes in the Latin America and killed a couple of thousand people. I am Anti American, if they support Isreal with Billions of Dollars, and never give this kind of money to help the World Hunger. I am Anti American, if your goverment is investing almost 500 billion dollars in Military Budget. I am Anti American if, the American Secret Agencies assassinated the President of the United States and got away with it.

I really don't think you are so naive as to think we are the ONLY bad guys here but you continue to paint us as such. You CLAIM to care for the Iraqis but instead of trying to boost the semi-working Government which is reaching out to the insurgents you post BS threads of how we are just walking through the streets slaughtering and raping men women children and donkeys.

What was so GOOD about the Invasion of Iraq, that we should call US Troops the Good Guys anyway? Hey, a regimes get changed all the times - With help of USA or Without it! How quickly people forget, that by Starting a War, you canot End it - behind every End is another Frontline and Another Confilct. And then you can ask yourself: Where Does it END?

Insurgents and Terrorists and Guerrillas are a natural response to the Invading USArmy. They should not be there in the First Place, but they are still walking in the streets of Baghdad. They have not just freed Iraq and removed a regime of Saddam Hussein - they have started a great war against the US Empire: from all sides people come to fight USA in Iraq, and its the same situation as, its was with Russians in Afganistan. America is in War for Global Domination - and you bet there will be Resistance. War on Terrorism is just a Big Business. So what exactly is Good here? I dont see it clearly.

Your interest is NOT in helping stop the suffering in Iraq or in seeing a peaceful outcome its in continuing to push your anti-American agenda no matter how many die as a result

Even Tommy Franks and the Leaders of the New Government AND 99% of the Iraqis are tired of pointing fingers and pushing the blame around while more people die every day at the hands of BOTH SIDES. They just want to get on with their own lives and live in peace its just people like you (and the religious whacos, and Haliburton, etc) that have an intrest in keeping the blood flowing

Ofcourse People want Peace. Who doesnt? Answer yourself to this Question - Who Doesnt Want Peace? I dont want to keep this struggle Any Minute Longer - do NOT call me a WARMONGER, because I do not LIKE wars like, some other people here DO! My interest is NOT to "keep the blood flowing"! That is the Interest of your Goverment and Your President! HE STARTED THIS WAR! NOT ME BUDDY! HE wants the control over Middle East. First Step: Attack Afganistan, gain control over key areas, establish Military Bases and control and protect the crucial Pipline. Second Step: Establish a Saddam Free Iraq and gain ground control (not just Air Control) in Iraq. Establish a Puppet Goverment and privatize the Oil Reserves. Third Step: Gain control over Syria, to establish a corridor between Free Iraq and Isreal. The deployment of America's war machine purports to enlarge America's economic sphere of influence. The U.S. has established a permanent military presence not only in Iraq and Afghanistan, it has military bases in several of the former Soviet republics on China's Western frontier.

So who wants to Spill Blood here, Sir?

It seems that if most of those fighting and dying are ready to stop that the rest of us safe and fat in our homes would at LEAST support the only real chance at the moment

To be blunt you are as much of a hypocrite as George Bush and Dick Chenny.

You cannot End the Resistance, by saying that War in Iraq is a Mission Accomplished - that Job is far to harder than that. And people that planned the attack on Iraq knew that, and had that in mind, when doing that. Yes, the majority of the People in Iraq want Peace. And the majorioty of American People also. And the majority of American Soldiers. But they wont get it. Because none of them is In Charge. Gues who is? And its not ME!

Originally posted by Souljah

Originally posted by Amuk
Thats truly the sad part Souljah is that you don't.

You seem like an intelligent person and rightfully so point out that we shouldn't believe every thing the Government says but have no problem believing ANYTHING someone with a website puts up as long as it goes along with YOUR AGENDA which ALL AMERICA is bad ALL MUSLIM is good.

Incorrect.
I am not Anti American - I am Anti CURRENT American Goverment, and the things they do and then call them Freedom. I am Anti American, if they supported numerous Terrorist Regimes in the Latin America and killed a couple of thousand people. I am Anti American, if they support Isreal with Billions of Dollars, and never give this kind of money to help the World Hunger. I am Anti American, if your goverment is investing almost 500 billion dollars in Military Budget. I am Anti American if, the American Secret Agencies assassinated the President of the United States and got away with it.

I really don't think you are so naive as to think we are the ONLY bad guys here but you continue to paint us as such. You CLAIM to care for the Iraqis but instead of trying to boost the semi-working Government which is reaching out to the insurgents you post BS threads of how we are just walking through the streets slaughtering and raping men women children and donkeys.

What was so GOOD about the Invasion of Iraq, that we should call US Troops the Good Guys anyway? Hey, a regimes get changed all the times - With help of USA or Without it! How quickly people forget, that by Starting a War, you canot End it - behind every End is another Frontline and Another Confilct. And then you can ask yourself: Where Does it END?

Insurgents and Terrorists and Guerrillas are a natural response to the Invading USArmy. They should not be there in the First Place, but they are still walking in the streets of Baghdad. They have not just freed Iraq and removed a regime of Saddam Hussein - they have started a great war against the US Empire: from all sides people come to fight USA in Iraq, and its the same situation as, its was with Russians in Afganistan. America is in War for Global Domination - and you bet there will be Resistance. War on Terrorism is just a Big Business. So what exactly is Good here? I dont see it clearly.

Your interest is NOT in helping stop the suffering in Iraq or in seeing a peaceful outcome its in continuing to push your anti-American agenda no matter how many die as a result

Even Tommy Franks and the Leaders of the New Government AND 99% of the Iraqis are tired of pointing fingers and pushing the blame around while more people die every day at the hands of BOTH SIDES. They just want to get on with their own lives and live in peace its just people like you (and the religious whacos, and Haliburton, etc) that have an intrest in keeping the blood flowing

Ofcourse People want Peace. Who doesnt? Answer yourself to this Question - Who Doesnt Want Peace? I dont want to keep this struggle Any Minute Longer - do NOT call me a WARMONGER, because I do not LIKE wars like, some other people here DO! My interest is NOT to "keep the blood flowing"! That is the Interest of your Goverment and Your President! HE STARTED THIS WAR! NOT ME BUDDY! HE wants the control over Middle East. First Step: Attack Afganistan, gain control over key areas, establish Military Bases and control and protect the crucial Pipline. Second Step: Establish a Saddam Free Iraq and gain ground control (not just Air Control) in Iraq. Establish a Puppet Goverment and privatize the Oil Reserves. Third Step: Gain control over Syria, to establish a corridor between Free Iraq and Isreal. The deployment of America's war machine purports to enlarge America's economic sphere of influence. The U.S. has established a permanent military presence not only in Iraq and Afghanistan, it has military bases in several of the former Soviet republics on China's Western frontier.

So who wants to Spill Blood here, Sir?

It seems that if most of those fighting and dying are ready to stop that the rest of us safe and fat in our homes would at LEAST support the only real chance at the moment

To be blunt you are as much of a hypocrite as George Bush and Dick Chenny.

You cannot End the Resistance, by saying that War in Iraq is a Mission Accomplished - that Job is far to harder than that. And people that planned the attack on Iraq knew that, and had that in mind, when doing that. Yes, the majority of the People in Iraq want Peace. And the majorioty of American People also. And the majority of American Soldiers. But they wont get it. Because none of them is In Charge. Gues who is? And its not ME!

problem is Souljah is that terrorist who join as terrorists like Al Qaida needs new life to what they are doin, they can't just go back to their normal lives after like Afghanistan or Chechnya or Kashmir or Phillipines or Thailand, they need a new Jihad. They see taking on America is the best way to push their agenda for a new Islamic empire that they so dearly missed. why u dink they want American troops out? because we are standing in the way of the greatest Islamic empire people will ever see in the future. there are fundamentalists who dream of the great Abbasid empire or other dynasties. other Muslims like the moderates don't really care for empires and just want to have a great life with other communites but the Islamic fundamentalists just wants to get rid of the Muslim governments and make sure America is not involve. they are antidemocratic too. which means they dont like people power.

aniways the 2 aircraft crash into each other in bad weather, which is pretty common even back in the states. so there was no timewarp or watever u suggested. good theory though.

[edit on 3-5-2005 by deltaboy]

A little more detail added to AceOfBase's update article:
Body of One Pilot Found in Iraq

And...
US military suspects two F-18s collided over Iraq

In Washington, defense officials said they suspected the two fighters collided in mid-air at 30,000 feet (9,144 metres), but no final conclusion had been reached.

--snip--

"The planes were flying too high to be shot down."

A heavy sandstorm and lightning hit central Iraq on Monday night.

seekerof

Originally posted by Souljah
Incorrect.
I am not Anti American - I am Anti CURRENT American Government, and the things they do and then call them Freedom. I am Anti American, if they supported numerous Terrorist Regimes in the Latin America and killed a couple of thousand people. I am Anti American, if they support Israel with Billions of Dollars, and never give this kind of money to help the World Hunger. I am Anti American, if your government is investing almost 500 billion dollars in Military Budget. I am Anti American if, the American Secret Agencies assassinated the President of the United States and got away with it.

So no Muslim nations have supported terrorism? How about the Muslim slave trade? How much did the Muslim world give to the tsunami victims who were mostly Muslim and how much did we give? For that matter how much do these Filthy rich Oil Barons give to help world hunger? Its ONLY a problem with you if AMERICA does it. I don't like the current American government either and voted against it and will again next time.

What do you do other then ignore the blood on Muslim hands and then pretend to care about those WE KILL? Have you tried to push support for a dialog between the insurgents and the Iraqi Government or have you been too busy combing Jahidunspun for "facts" of how we are eating babies and raping 90 year-old women?

You have admitted YOURSELF that if we leave now it would result in a worse bloodbath but instead of trying to push an agenda of unity and a cease to bloodshed you just trump out the same old tired lies and propaganda that just feed the fire, but what the hell you ain't being shot at right?

Can you tell me that the religious fruitcakes that fuel the fire from YOUR SIDE are guiltless? The difference is I am not buying EITHER story and you are swallowing one hook line and sinker.

What was so GOOD about the Invasion of Iraq, that we should call US Troops the Good Guys anyway? Hey, a regimes get changed all the times - With help of USA or Without it! How quickly people forget, that by Starting a War, you cannot End it - behind every End is another Front line and Another Conflict. And then you can ask yourself: Where Does it END?

Please

What was so good about Saddam? I was against the war in Iraq. Hell I am a Libertarian if it was up to me we would pull our troops out off every other country on earth and sell you the weapons to kill each other with. As you have said these things happen all the time what makes this one so special?

Insurgents and Terrorists and Guerrillas are a natural response to the Invading US Army. They should not be there in the First Place, but they are still walking in the streets of Baghdad. They have not just freed Iraq and removed a regime of Saddam Hussein - they have started a great war against the US Empire: from all sides people come to fight USA in Iraq, and its the same situation as, its was with Russians in Afghanistan. America is in War for Global Domination - and you bet there will be Resistance. War on Terrorism is just a Big Business. So what exactly is Good here? I don't see it clearly.

The USA, China and Russia with India and Europe coming up ALREADY CONTROL THE WORLD. Get over it. Its not just us, this world was divided up a long time ago. Its all about money today and the Muslim world is in Bed with the rest.

Unless you haven't noticed its TOO LATE NOT TO INVADE. Its broken now, should we just pack up and leave? YOU YOURSELF know that would lead to a bloodbath. So what do we REALISTICALLY DO? Whine and moan over the invasion while the killing keeps on? Look ONLY at the acts of a few messed up people on both sides and claim that "they are ALL like that"?

Or do we encourage a dialog between all parties and plead for a little reason from BOTH groups?

If it would stop the killing and end it then I wouldn't have a problem with total amnesty and the "insurgents" having a seat at the table. That is how the world works.

If you are looking for some kind of universal justice good luck

Of course People want Peace. Who doesn't? Answer yourself to this Question - Who Doesn't Want Peace? I don't want to keep this struggle Any Minute Longer - do NOT call me a WARMONGER, because I do not LIKE wars like, some other people here DO! My interest is NOT to "keep the blood flowing"! That is the Interest of your Government and Your President! HE STARTED THIS WAR! NOT ME BUDDY!

If you don't like it why are you playing their game? You are just a big of supporter of this war as they are you just cheer lead for the other side. Just a big of an argument could be made that 9-11 started it and I grow weary of listening to both sides point fingers like second graders in school. If you REALLY just wanted this war to end you would forget who through the first punch and worry about how to STOP THEM.

HE wants the control over Middle East. First Step: Attack Afghanistan, gain control over key areas, establish Military Bases and control and protect the crucial Pipeline. Second Step: Establish a Saddam Free Iraq and gain ground control (not just Air Control) in Iraq. Establish a Puppet Government and privatize the Oil Reserves. Third Step: Gain control over Syria, to establish a corridor between Free Iraq and Israel. The deployment of America's war machine purports to enlarge America's economic sphere of influence. The U.S. has established a permanent military presence not only in Iraq and Afghanistan, it has military bases in several of the former Soviet republics on China's Western frontier.

wow I dint know you sit in on our presidents meetings it must have been so hard for you to have remained quite while Mr. Bush described this too you. OR are you just repeating something you heard just like everyone else on thei board?

The truth be known IF that is the plan, its been worked out with the major players, Russia, China, India, ect and it will happen. If we dont do it China or Russia will. Let me be clear on this issue if ALL of them arent in on it it wouldnt be happening. We are just supplying the foot soldiers.

And You know what?

There aint a damn thing you or a bunch of car bombers can do about it.

So who wants to Spill Blood here, Sir?

Better yet who wants to STOP the bloodshed? Those blowing up cars and beheading people? ARE THOSE THE GOOD GUYS? If not who cares WHO runs the country as long as they can raise their families in peace?

You cannot End the Resistance, by saying that War in Iraq is a Mission Accomplished - that Job is far to harder than that. And people that planned the attack on Iraq knew that, and had that in mind, when doing that. Yes, the majority of the People in Iraq want Peace. And the majority of American People also. And the majority of American Soldiers. But they wont get it. Because none of them is In Charge. Guess who is? And its not ME!

Whats your plan then buddy?

instead of bitching tell me how to REALISTICLLY bring peace to the region? No UFOs or acts of God, no BS, a REAL WORLD PLAN.


Wouldnt the best way to defeat Bush and Company be for the Insurgents to join with the Iraqi Government, work out a real peace and then tell him to get lost?

maybe they tried to get smart with something they couldnt handle and/or aliens did it and they will use malfunctioning systems to cover them up
so all the regular citizens wont see them

Originally posted by Amuk
So no Muslim nations have supported terrorism? How about the Muslim slave trade? How much did the Muslim world give to the tsunami victims who were mostly Muslim and how much did we give? For that matter how much do these Filthy rich Oil Barons give to help world hunger? Its ONLY a problem with you if AMERICA does it. I don't like the current American government either and voted against it and will again next time.

No - ofcourse there are terrorist supporters in Muslim world, a pefect example is Saudi Arabia, and the current prince of House of Saud. How much money does he have, and how much money did he donate to the tsunami victims?

What do you do other then ignore the blood on Muslim hands and then pretend to care about those WE KILL? Have you tried to push support for a dialog between the insurgents and the Iraqi Government or have you been too busy combing Jahidunspun for "facts" of how we are eating babies and raping 90 year-old women?

Hey, people die in Wars - end the current situation in Iraq is far from Mission Accomplished. Who dies most of the time? Innocent civilians. Would they die in such numbers, if for example, Saddam was still in control of Iraq? A dialog between the insurgents and the current Iraqi Goverment will be very, very difficult. You know why? Because you cant erase history and the past, with "removing a regime". Now please, dont exagerate about this Jihadspun sites, and "facts".

You have admitted YOURSELF that if we leave now it would result in a worse bloodbath but instead of trying to push an agenda of unity and a cease to bloodshed you just trump out the same old tired lies and propaganda that just feed the fire, but what the hell you ain't being shot at right?

Can you tell me that the religious fruitcakes that fuel the fire from YOUR SIDE are guiltless? The difference is I am not buying EITHER story and you are swallowing one hook line and sinker.

As always, every side has its Story, like there is two sides to every medal. Why cannot be Unity in Iraq? Gee, let me think - hmmm, who wants Unity? Who wants Peace in Iraq? Hey, we see the Facts pouring out about this War, telling us its Illegal and a total Lie to begin with! Your President Lied to the World, why he wants to start this, and who wants to deal with this problem now? Now, how can there be Peace and Unity, if the war that started this insurgency was a total Lie in the Start? Do you think that Russian invasion of Afganistan is the same or similar to current situation with US Forces in Iraq? Dont you see the similarities? Ofcourse there are always two sides, fueling the fires, for the can not exsist without each other, they need each other. But who needs who MORE in this circle?

What was so good about Saddam? I was against the war in Iraq. Hell I am a Libertarian if it was up to me we would pull our troops out off every other country on earth and sell you the weapons to kill each other with. As you have said these things happen all the time what makes this one so special?

There are many tyrannts on this Planet that need removal. Or needed removal in the Past - and did United States remove them, when it was needed? I suggest US Army goes to Congo and Rwanada and remove War Chiefs and War Mongers there! They kill ALOT of people everyday, and those that they dont kill, they leave to die in hunger and poverty. Well, if you were against war, you must know and understand what it means to the Iraqi people then. Sure, they are free of the evil dictator, but are they safe and secure? Are their lives protected? Do they have the proper Social, Medical and Economic Aid?

You know what makes this War special? That its so media covered, and that it has so many diffrent views and sides to it, that you see things for a very diffrent perspective. US Army is the "main star" in this biggest media event in the History - and they are playing against an enemy team on their homeground. Then you have your Fox News "reports", and your Jihadspun "reports", and your independant reports and then you see a very diffrent story by all 3 of them.

The USA, China and Russia with India and Europe coming up ALREADY CONTROL THE WORLD. Get over it. Its not just us, this world was divided up a long time ago. Its all about money today and the Muslim world is in Bed with the rest.

You are correct here. I am sure this Planet is divided by all sides, not just the USA. But seriously, USA is the Number 1 divider and conqueror for a number of years! The USA have a Key Stronghold in the Middle East - Isreal, which they protect and help all the time, to ensure their influence over this theatre.

Unless you haven't noticed its TOO LATE NOT TO INVADE. Its broken now, should we just pack up and leave? YOU YOURSELF know that would lead to a bloodbath. So what do we REALISTICALLY DO? Whine and moan over the invasion while the killing keeps on? Look ONLY at the acts of a few messed up people on both sides and claim that "they are ALL like that"?

Ofcourse its too late now. It is done. The West has taken over a key country in the Middle East, and is just spreading around more influence. The plans to attack Iran are already waiting, there is just a big shortage of Manpower. You think this is the End, that your troops will pack up and go home? Now there is a Need for Everalsting presence of US forces in Iraq! They cant leave, if they want to keep Democracy.

Or do we encourage a dialog between all parties and plead for a little reason from BOTH groups?

If it would stop the killing and end it then I wouldn't have a problem with total amnesty and the "insurgents" having a seat at the table. That is how the world works.

Man, I wish it was that Simple! That these people could just walk up to each other and shake hands! But things here are a little more complicated than that - I really dont think that ANYBODY is in Control in Iraq: not the US Forces, not the Insurgents, not the Foreign Volunteers and surely not the current Iraqi Goverment and their Police Force. Who is in Charge here Damnit? NOBODY! Its a Serious Mess! Look at Isreal - that is a Neverending Story of Violence, and Returning Violence. Isreali's and Palestinians are locked inside this endless struggle, with countless UN resolutions that DID NOT work! So, what makes you think, that a US Sponsored Iraqi Goverment can make a diffrence in Iraq? Who is going to be such a Revolutionary Leader and Unite all the Clans? I dont see that in current Iraqi PM.

If you are looking for some kind of universal justice good luck

Justice is a very forgotten word, my Friend. It does not appear to have any Value today. The only value is the power of your Bank Account - and Justice can easily loose all the meaning and power.

If you don't like it why are you playing their game? You are just a big of supporter of this war as they are you just cheer lead for the other side. Just a big of an argument could be made that 9-11 started it and I grow weary of listening to both sides point fingers like second graders in school. If you REALLY just wanted this war to end you would forget who through the first punch and worry about how to STOP THEM.

Great Philosophy - but does it Work? Gandhi said "The weak can never forgive. Forgiveness is the attribute of the strong." I can Forgive You - but I will Never Forget! That is how I work, but I am not down there and I am not in any power or in charge of Anything that powerful to really make this kind of change. I dont fight, I try to avoid conflict. I think that the Power of Argument MUST REPLACE the Arguemnt of Power! BUT - how do You and Me do that? I did my job by not joining the Army and served as a civilian in Clinical Center. I helped to save lives, I did not destroy them. SO please, dont label me as a "war supporter". I support this war as much as You do, Sir. You know what Gadhi also said: "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind."

wow I dint know you sit in on our presidents meetings it must have been so hard for you to have remained quite while Mr. Bush described this too you. OR are you just repeating something you heard just like everyone else on thei board?

The truth be known IF that is the plan, its been worked out with the major players, Russia, China, India, ect and it will happen. If we dont do it China or Russia will. Let me be clear on this issue if ALL of them arent in on it it wouldnt be happening. We are just supplying the foot soldiers.

And You know what?

There aint a damn thing you or a bunch of car bombers can do about it.

Belive me, your President is a very Evil Man - I can see that in his Eyes. He wont stop for Anything to get what he wants, I mean what the goverment wants. But I am sure he is not alone in this game - I bet there are playaz from all over the world, joining the Party! Russia is a littel too weak for this kind of games, since they got their Butt kicked in Chechnia and are still suffering from a massive terrorist counter attack on their own Soil! But hey, they knew that they cannot conquer that land and the People in it. Ofcourse there would be Resistance, what did they think it would happen? Anyway, China and India are to worry - they are the Biggets Countries in the World, with a majority of the population of the World! I am sure that China will try to do their little own "Taiwan thingy", and India has not forgotten the land of Kashmir on Pakistani border. And ofcourse lets not forget North Korea, which is a torn in USA foot for a number of decades. So ofcourse everybody wants their own Piece of the Pie - and who blames them! Or there will be Nothing Left - if this is The kind of Game we are Playing right now. Now I dont like it. And you dont like it either.

Better yet who wants to STOP the bloodshed? Those blowing up cars and beheading people? ARE THOSE THE GOOD GUYS? If not who cares WHO runs the country as long as they can raise their families in peace?

Again, you are repeating yourself, and I am repeating myself too - blowing up, beheadings would not occur, if there was no Invasion. The result is this so-called Civil-War. How to Stop it? Is the way to stop it, train Iraqi police and supply them with US weapons? Is that the way to Peace or is that the way to more War? Guess who made money again here! Nope, it wasnt Al-Zarqawi.


Iraq's Private Warriors

• Amount allocated for Iraq's police and military: $3.2 billion (Congressional appropriation)
• Amount spent on Iraq's police and military: $194 million (Congressional appropriation)

• Amount paid to Vinnell for training Iraqi army: $48 million
• Amount paid by Vinnell to Iraqi recruits: $70 per month

• Salary of U.S. soldier: $1,100 to $2,500 per month
• Salary of British commando: $3,500 per month
• Salary of Iraqi soldier: $70 per month

• Salary of British ex-commando working for a private military company: up to $20,000 per month
• Salary of Nepali ex-commando working for a private military company: $1,500 per month
• Salary of South African ex-commando working for a private military company: $1,000 per month

• Cost of top of the line service (four armed foreign guards and two armored vehicles): $10,000 per day

• Number of weapons ordered for Iraqi police by June 2004: 253,000
• Number of weapons delivered to Iraqi police by June 2004: 141,000

• Number of vehicles ordered for Iraqi police by June 2004: 25,000
• Number of vehicles delivered to Iraqi police by June 2004: 8,500

• Number of body armor suits ordered for Iraqi police by June 2004: 174,000
• Number of body armor suits delivered to Iraqi police by June 2004: 40,000

• Number of radios ordered for Iraqi police by June 2004: 57,000
• Number of radios delivered to Iraqi police by June 2004: 2,500

Fee charged by Aegis Defence Services for overseeing private military contractors in Iraq: $293 million

• Years of experience of Aegis Defence Services in Iraq: 0

• Years of experience of Aegis Defence Services overseeing private military contractors elsewhere: 0

“The (salary) decision is not based on the value of his life but on the cost of training and equipping the workforce. Nor would it be right for the US Army to enforce US based salaries where no one else could match it. Life sometimes isn’t fair.”
Richard Dowling (spokesperson for the US Army Corps of Engineers) on lower salaries for non-American workers.

Whats your plan then buddy?

instead of bitching tell me how to REALISTICLLY bring peace to the region? No UFOs or acts of God, no BS, a REAL WORLD PLAN.

Wouldnt the best way to defeat Bush and Company be for the Insurgents to join with the Iraqi Government, work out a real peace and then tell him to get lost?

OK - for whatever Reason United States invaded and occupied the land of Iraq, they are here now. By some people they are seen as liberators and bringers of peace. For others they are seen as Enemies of the Muslim world and they belive that they are the new Crusaders. My plan would be to bring everybody at the same, ROUND Table, and Talk. But I dont think that it would work, because they cannot be in the same room togather, without killing each other. This is the result of USA invasion.

You know what would sound Realistic, and to me reasonable International Intervention in Iraq? IF not just US Forces arrived with support of UK Forces - but alongside Russian, Chinese, Indian, Pakistani, European Soldiers! So that would be a fair International Intervention - now its just an Invasion. Just like Germany invaded Poland, saying that they are hiding Jewish Russian Terrorists.

[edit on 4/5/05 by Souljah]

There's still no word on the second pilot but the wreckage of both jets has been located.

Sunherald

WASHINGTON - Investigators in Iraq have located the wreckage of both Marine Corps F/A-18 Hornet fighter jets that were reported missing earlier this week, but they have yet to find the second pilot, an official said Wednesday.

Pentagon officials had said Tuesday that one fuselage had been found about 15 miles from Karbala in south-central Iraq, and that the pilot was found still strapped in his ejection seat some distance from the wreckage.

They've now located the body of the second pilot.

Reuters

BAGHDAD (Reuters) - Search teams have recovered the body of a second American pilot missing after two F-18 Marine Corps planes disappeared over
Iraq earlier this week, a U.S. statement said on Wednesday.

Why are you guys argueing?

2 People are dead and your argueing over interpretations and opinions.

Show some respect.

Off the street,

You guys make F-18's?

Must feel bad everytime something happens to one of your "babies".....atleast you know that have some of the best people in the world looking after them.

Body of second U.S. pilot missing in Iraq found

BAGHDAD (Reuters) - Search teams have recovered the body of a second American pilot missing after two F-18 Marine Corps planes disappeared over
Iraq earlier this week, a U.S. statement said on Wednesday.

A heavy sandstorm and lightning hit central Iraq on Monday night.

In Washington, a defense official said on Tuesday they suspected the two fighters collided in mid-air at 30,000 feet, but no final conclusion had been reached.

One official, who asked not to be identified, said an emergency beacon from one of the planes was located on the ground about 25 km (16 miles) southwest of Kerbala.

[url=http://story.news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050504/ts_nm/iraq_usa_jets_dc;_ylt=A86.I1lpa3lCG7UA2x1Z.3QA;_ylu=X3o'___'BiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl]Source[/ur l]
Very tragic news. My condolences to the pilots families.

[edit on 4-5-2005 by Vajrayana]

Amuk and Souljah, this really isn't the thread for arguing, kinda one of those mourning types. I respect your views, but maybe this thread isn't the place for them .

Oh and Souljah, your avatar is a bit chilly; is a former Russian tsar? or anything like that?

You guys are Right - we got carried away, and have gone Far, Far beyond the original topic of this thread, But he Started IT!

Just Kidding!

Anway, to answer the question about my avatar: no its not a Russian General, its a painting titled Black General by Clara Pechansky.


[edit on 5/5/05 by Souljah]

Originally posted by evanfitz
Amuk and Souljah, this really isn't the thread for arguing, kinda one of those mourning types. I respect your views, but maybe this thread isn't the place for them

.

Oh and Souljah, your avatar is a bit chilly; is a former Russian tsar? or anything like that?

We have moved it to Email

Sorry folks

Back on topic