The earth was not created in seven days

Originally posted by St Udio
Yes, it is incredible, that some cherished writings(incl scriptures),
just might have deeper and profound meanings & lessons in it.
But, i don't subscribe to the 'Diety' of the author or elevate the words
to a particular SupremeBeing....but that dosen't mean i have to
accept scripture as 'pious & holy' and accept every jot & tittle in-toto,
those actions are for the believers & faithful.

You seem to enjoy reflecting philosophically. With the direction you are going, I think you could find great unrestricted philosophical freedom outside of the pages of the Bible. Working within those pages, like the comic I posted, you are trying to force-funnel your grand philosophy through a set of limiting words and ideas.

Zip

[edit on 6/30/2005 by Zipdot]

Originally posted by ZipdotI really don't see how you are arriving at this conclusion. What do you mean by "time=day"? Please explain again. A day is 24 hours.

I rather enjoyed Udio's response, it was a much deeper way of stating that at the time, was the best man could do to explain their concept of time.

Consider that; were the account of creation in Genesis written by inhabitants of the Arctic, the 24 hour day would not have been used.

I guess the Bibles I grew up with did not have this referrance page I inquire of - where is the referrance for when a day is a day or a thousand years?

I have been all my life watching Bible thumpers profess "happened in a day" for what they want to be grandeous (creation) yet for other stories a day is a day (rained for 40,000 days is quite unfeaseble).

So, just how do you, Christians, choose which story uses which timeline?

================

Side Note: Why do I see so often on these religious threads the typing of "G-d"? Does your 'o' not work, is it spite? Just wondering.

Misfit

Originally posted by Misfit
I have been all my life watching Bible thumpers profess "happened in a day" for what they want to be grandeous (creation) yet for other stories a day is a day (rained for 40,000 days is quite unfeaseble).

That was a good one. That'd put Noah and his crew on the boat for 110 years and I've gotta tell ya, they don't make boats like they used to. Boats these days required maintenance every 6 months!

Originally posted by Misfit
So, just how do you, Christians, choose which story uses which timeline?

I ain't too proud to say "I don't know". I'll take a day as a day until proven otherwise. It's not a 'core fundamental absolutely have-to-know right now' piece of information necessary to determine one's place in eternity.

[edit on 1-7-2005 by saint4God]

Originally posted by Misfit
Side Note: Why do I see so often on these religious threads the typing of "G-d"? Does your 'o' not work, is it spite? Just wondering.

Misfit

Hehe, Torah law (the Halachah) says that the name of God cannot be defaced or desecrated, nor can the possibility for defacement or desecration be allowed to occur, so they write "G-d," "L-rd," etc., on anything that can be thrown away or destroyed.

Zip

Originally posted by Zipdot
so they write "G-d," "L-rd," etc., on anything that can be thrown away or destroyed.
Zip

Oh good grief Charlie Brown!!!

It's .......... A PIECE OF BLOODY PAPER !!!!!!!

I mean, what -
- Ya throw paper away with the word God on it, does God yell when it hits the bottom of the can?
- Format a HDD, deos he scream every time the lazer crosses over the word?

Ugh

Had to, sorry, venting there, heh.

Thanx for the info, ya dun lernt me sumpin!

Misfit

Originally posted by Zipdot

...... Working within those pages, like the comic I posted, you are trying to force-funnel your grand philosophy through a set of limiting words and ideas.

Zip

[edit on 6/30/2005 by Zipdot]

..oh no no, there zip,
i'm not pushing a grand or contrary theory, i'm just trying to point out
that there could be other definitions, concepts, which the '7 days of creation' might also mean.

*sure, the 'day' -the result of a 24 hr rotation period was made a standard(probably after-the-fact), whether 6K years ago or 100s of millions of years ago.

*and one might quibble if the 'day' was in earth time or heaven time(24hrs X365days X1,000= 8,760,000 hours)
but, i ask, of what use was any defined periodicity of a 'day' if Adam (1st human) was not created yet...a rotation rate of earth could not have been established- or made no nevermind- because the sun & moon were created after the Heavens' & the Earth...(an empty universe but for the Earth at the onset)

*in reflection, the 'Days' of scripture, served to make divisions of 'time',
in the Biblical account, all the work & toils of the creation took 6 distinct divisions of time... the creator then gave Adam a benchmark to regulate his life, a 7 'day' template, which involved the day-night sequence, lunar & solar & precessional cycles, all which have an interplay, a cosmic timepiece

my view is- that trying to fit the earth 'day' or even the heaven 'day' to
the Genesis Story
is using that "Force-Funnel" approach you level against me.

~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~~

yessir zip, your correct in your 'G-d' explaination,

i try often, to respect the practices of everyone/anyone,
(when i become aware of it)
and i never heard of Christians saying it was improper to spell 'G-d' that way,
so i just do the spelling that way (if i remember it) as a jesture of
humbleness or diplomacy or reverence, to those who consider it profane
to write it out.

Originally posted by Zipdot
Hehe, Torah law (the Halachah) says that the name of God cannot be defaced or desecrated, nor can the possibility for defacement or desecration be allowed to occur, so they write "G-d," "L-rd," etc., on anything that can be thrown away or destroyed.

Zip

Is God the name of God? I thought it was a used to describe Him like Lord and Almighty. I might be wrong here, but I thought I heard someone who knew the Hebrew language say the actual name is only mentioned in the temple at a certain time. I don't see where that's written, but welcome anyone who'd like to show me otherwise. I agree we should not be disgraceful like writing "God sucks!" and such, but I think the problem starts in thinking and believe that first (per Matthew). Also, how do you have a personal relationship with someone you can't talk to? You've gotta address Him somehow. I think Lord and God gives respect and direction at the same time.

Traditionally, for the Jews, the Halachah about name desecration carries over to other languages, so that's why the word "God" is included in the names that should not be written. The law is, however, independent of laws about speaking the lord's name in vein.

EDIT: This may also shed some light on the subject, from WikiPedia:

The most important name of God in Judaism is the Tetragrammaton, the four-letter name of God. This name is first mentioned in the book of Genesis and is usually translated as 'the Lord'. Because Jews for quite a long period of time considered it blasphemy to pronounce, the correct pronunciation of this name was forgotten — the original Hebrew texts only included consonants. Modern scholars conjecture that it was pronounced "Yahweh".

Other names for God in Judaism are:

1.2 Adonai
1.3 Elohim
1.4 El
1.5 Shaddai
1.6 ‘Elyon
1.7 YHVH Tzevaot
1.8 Ehyeh-Asher-Ehyeh
1.9 Yah

Zip

[edit on 7/1/2005 by Zipdot]

doesn't Jesus say the word God frequently? How come the Pharisees who ripped him every which way AND north didn't bring this up?

Also, if you have the verse on the law, that'd help me out.

You misunderstand. There are several ways to refer to God in Judaism. If Jesus were speaking about God, he'd probably say one of the several words that means God but is not his name.

My name is Zipdot. In Zipdot's book, chapter 1, verse 1, it says Verily didst ZPDT drink a beer. Out loud, you would say, "verily didst His Drunkenness drink a beer." Genesis translates YHWH to "THE LORD" in small capital letters.

It is from Lev 22:32:

Lev 22:32 Neither shall ye profane my holy name; but I will be hallowed among the children of Israel: I [am] the LORD which hallow you,

Zip

I believe it's literal days. According to Exodus 20:9-11, God used six literal days to create the world in order to serve as a model for man's work week. Work six days, rest one. Rest assured, God could have created everything in an instant if He wanted to. But apparently He had us in mind even before He made us (on the sixth day) and wanted to provide an example for us to follow.

www.gotquestions.org...

From a previous post

Bold letters by me, leading to my question

====================

This may also shed some light on the subject, from WikiPedia:

The most important name of God in Judaism is the Tetragrammaton, the four-letter name of God. This name is first mentioned in the book of Genesis and is usually translated as 'the Lord'. Because Jews for quite a long period of time considered it blasphemy to pronounce, the correct pronunciation of this name was forgotten — the original Hebrew texts only included consonants. Modern scholars conjecture that it was pronounced "Yahweh".

====================

Does anyone know why the pronunciation of his name would be blasphemy?

Yet, calling him by "God" is not?

It's the same entity.

Made that old song from the 70's pop in my head ......... you can call me Ray, or you can call me Jay ......... heh

Misfit

In my opinion, probably because it was so easy to screw things up. What if you burped between saying "Yah" and "Weh"? What if you weren't wearing shoes? Bowing your head? Inside a temple? There's just less of a chance of disrespect if you say "God" instaed of "Yahweh."

Christians aren't really used to God having a name, although the Christian God is the same as the Jews. (Minus the whole trinity fiasco, which is expressly forbidden in the Old Testament as there is 1 and only 1 God in the OT. Different topic.)

Zip

[edit on 7/1/2005 by Zipdot]

Originally posted by Misfit
oes anyone know why the pronunciation of his name would be blasphemy?

Yes.

The only mystery to God's name as per The Bible is the fact that he claimed not to have provided his real name. I leave that to the Bible believers to research as a necessary exercise. The truth however is far better explained in stone:

"... I am a prince, the son of a prince, a sacred essence which hath preceded from God. I am a great one, the son of a great one, and my father planned my name; I have multitudes of names and multitudes of forms, and my existence is in every god. I have been proclaimed by the heralds Tmu and Horus, and my father and my mother uttered my name; but it hath been hidden within me by him that begat me, who would not that the words of power of any seer should have dominion over me...."

Then said Isis unto Ra, "What thou hast said is not thy name. O tell it unto me, and the poison shall depart; for he shall live whose name shall be revealed." ..."I consent that Isis shall search into me, and that my name shall pass from me into her..."

Then said Isis unto Ra, "O tell me thy name, holy father, for whosoever shall be delivered by thy name shall live." [And Ra said], "I have made the heavens and the earth, I have ordered the mountains, I have created all that is above them, I have made the water, I have made to come into being the great and wide sea, I have made the 'Bull of his mother,' from whom spring the delights of love. I have made the heavens, I have stretched out the two horizons like a curtain, and I have placed the soul of the gods within them. I am he who, if he openeth his eyes, doth make the light, and, if he closeth them, darkness cometh into being. At his command the Nile riseth, and the gods know not his name. I have made the hours, I have created the days, I bring forward the festivals of the year, I create the Nile-flood. I make the fire of life, and I provide food in the houses. I am Khepera in the morning, I am Ra at noon, and I am Tmu at even."


"The god hath bound himself by an oath to deliver up his two eyes" (i.e., the sun and moon). Thus was the name of the great god taken from him, and Isis, the lady of enchantments, said, "Depart, poison, go forth from Ra. O eye of Horus, go forth from the god, and shine outside his mouth...

www.sacred-texts.com...

The power-mad always seek to deliver meaningless punishment in hopes of either silencing the other or exacting revenge for defiance.

Originally posted by Zipdot
You misunderstand.

I wanted to quote the rest but got a warning for overquoting so...

I think you're right. How can you say "you shall not take the Lord's name in vain" and "you cannot say God"? Er...how can you take it in vain if you can't say it?

I haven't had time today to read the recent conversation in this thread thoroughly. For now I just wanted to share an interesting read regarding the name of God.

Steve

'In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.' -Gen 1.1

Here the Galaxies were formed. The stars were burning brightly and the planets were in orbit around them, including the moons around the planets.
Earth was primative just as Venus, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus and Neptune are today.

The first creative day started with attention to earth. The creative days could be refered to as epics, lasting thousands or possibly millions of earth years.
The earth was formless and void and had a watery deep which made the surface dark. I believe this watery deep was thick gas glouds. So thick that light from the sun could not penetrate to the surface of the earth. The H2O was either locked up in the gas clouds or frozen on the surface or both. The call for 'let there be light' was the start of the clearing of atmospheric gasses and the dropping of atmospheric pressure. These gasses did not clear completely until the end of the fourth creative day. The sun, moon and stars were not visible from the earth's surface until the end of the fourth creative day.

The vegetation was formed on the third day with some sort of diffused light reaching the surface. The air would have been carbon rich and poisonous to oxygen breathing animals. The plants would have thrived on this carbonous air and as a byproduct they produced oxygen.

The rest is pretty much understood except for the use of the number seven. I believe it has something to do with the solar system in which he chose to start the human race. The planets were already in orbit around the sun before he started working on earth.

If God is God he is powerful enough to make the earth in 7 days.

Maybe 7 days means 7 stages.

Who says the world was spinning in a 24hour period, a day could have been slowed down.

God has no beginning he can age the earth at his own accelerated version.

Adam was made in one day from the dust of the earth, he was programmed to be made fully adult with a sense of language, why can not the rest of the earth have been done in similar fashion?

God is faster than the speed of light he created it, who says he did not make everything outside the laws of physics?

Anyway its up to you to decide but I am glad its down to faith, we have a choice and choices is what God intended for man to have.

reply to post by sjn240785


Food for thought....

The Days mentioned had nothing at all to do with the Earth or the Universe.

The first day was to do with what the Earth and Universe are produced in or perhaps through!

Note; the Day mentioned is from Evening to Morning!

This is Not a Day of Earth as the Day of Earth is from Morning to be Evening!

Not Evening to Morning, as this is the time of Darkness as it tells you in the same chapter!

The Heaven was produced First then the Earth and The Universe!

So what is the Heaven that is produced from the "Face of The Deep" ???

The Face of the Deep is Certainly Not the Seas, or any other water of the Earth, as at this stage of the story when "The Face of the Deep" is mentioned, The Earth Had No Form (Dimension) and void because at this stage of the story the Earth was Non Existent.

As for Light....

Light comes through the Sun, Not from the Sun.

So we are looking at the Creation or World (Not Earth of Universe) as being something that the Universe and earth are shown through ie a processing system.

We need to understand the cause rather than the end product!

The cause is Not a god invented or imagined by humankind according to the laws and understanding of humankind, but in fact something entirely different...

But what ????

I would suggest that Consciousness or Awareness would have been present in the early stages before the production of an experience called the Earth and Universe or Nothing or no One would be aware anything existed at all.

Nor could anything be formed, without Consciousness or Awareness!

[edit on 24-7-2009 by The Matrix Traveller]