Gasoline "Sticker shock" in US compared to Europe?

In the US, the price of gas has recently (more or less) gotten very high, historically high, to the point that people are very concerned it will start slowing down and possible wrecking the economy.

Is that the situation in Europe?

In the US, people are shaking their heads at the price at the pump, saying its so much higher than just a year ago and more, is that the case in Europe?

I know that in Europe gas is much more expensive than in the US in general, but are Europeans, or the rest of the world for that matter, struggling with their gas prices the same as in the US? Its all over the news in the US, but I haven't seen it too much onn european and world news.

[edit on 1-5-2005 by Nygdan]

That's because its old news, Nydan. They've been paying insane prices for gas for years and years now. I was in Portugal more than 10 years ago and then they were paying $1 per litre.

In Canada we're getting there now. And our prices have always been higher than in the U.S.

You folks have been lucky and continue to be lucky, for all that you think otherwise!

Which brings me round to why Iraq is happening in the first place. Think about it.

Originally posted by AlwaysLearning
In Canada we're getting there now. And our prices have always been higher than in the U.S.

You folks have been lucky and continue to be lucky, for all that you think otherwise!

I was at the gas station this morning, and it is now 107.5 a litre in Vancouver. I believe we have the highest prices in Canada. Good thing I only went to pick up the paper.

It is no surprise that this is happening. According to a history cahnnel documentary on Osama Bin Ladin, the reason that al queda attacked us in the first place is because the united states has been keeping oil at a below market price. What we are seeing now is the price rebound, Dr. Kulkarni (professor of buisness and economics) of Metro State university said to my class that this was actually supposed to start happening a few years ago, and that crude oil SHOULD actually be trading around 80.00 a barrel. I expect that gas prices will not go down. Rather, something must be done about the value and purchasing power of the american dollar. Take this with a grain of salt, but, it is my hypothesis (as someone who has done extensive research on NWO) that the untied states has been attempting to corner the oil market since that days of Rockafeller. It is my belief that the american dollar, is no longer merely a "greenback" but rather it is based on the oil standard, similar to the gold standard or silver standard. Although our dollar is not directly connected to oil, the value of our dolar is affected by changes in the stucture of the global market (which i would say is one of the commodities that dominates the market). As countries like China are willing to spend more per barrel, America is experienceing the negative aspects of global free market enterprise, an increase in demand and not much change in supply. Thus the purchiasing power of the American dollar has changed, and our money is now worth less on a global market. However, "Dubbs" Bush, and "Herbie" Bush have been actively pursuing the prospcts of more oil exploration. GW Bush's company, Arbusto energy (in connection with the saudis and the bin ladin family) have been taking steps to get more oil onto the free market. Despite what most may think, these people are not stupid, they know this market up and down. I don't think america would shoot itelf in the foot by getting screwed trading oil in the global market. America my be in position to dominate th global market and finally the UN will show its dominance. If oil reserves in the mid east were to run out today, I contend that America would potentially be stitting on top of a gold mine. I offer this quote from www.oilanalytics.org...

"The Bush energy policy is based on a seemingly reasonable economic premise; economic incentives to the oil industry will stimulate drilling, which will increase supply. But U.S. oil production does not behave as predicted by economic models (1). In fact, production and prices move in opposite directions (FIGURE 1). Despite a general decline in real prices between end of WWII and the early 1970’s, production nearly doubled. Conversely, production declined nearly 20 percent between the early 1970’s and 1985, despite a tripling in real oil prices. Since 1985, both prices and production have declined." [1]

America holds a truly unkown amount of oil under Alaska's ANWR. Some geologists contend that ther is not enouh oil under ANWR to make a difference, but others claim that it is the single largest untapped oil reserve. Coming form a school that has an amazing petroleum engineering department, as well as one of the top Geophysics, and Geology programs, I have heard just about every contention there is.
One thing I do know however is that oil will run out, I don't know when, but if America plays its cards right we can clean up on this. In the event that supply experiences a crash, america would be one of the larger producers of oil, thus to some extent we could determine supply, and economically it would allow us to price fix. Cha-ching! Is this an economic crisis, or do the politicians know something that we don't, and they're just holding out for maximum profit?
Things are happening right now to reduce dependence on oil. Look at UN Agenda 21, it is already been put into motion. The entire project is being spearheaded by the most powerful man in world right now. Anyone interested in NWO, if you don't know who this is, I suggest you google search this name right now: Maurice Strong. This is a man who will be in everyone's future. Agenda 21 basically states, that urban sprawl is to be eliminated, and thet people need to move into large cities so that land outside of them can be farmed for maximum utility. They are also supposed to be self-sustainable. The days of large scale subsistance farming are at outrdoorstep. But this is another topic for another board.
One thing American politicians must do is act now, because the probalem is not going to get any better. There are many things that our goernment must do to prevent this from coming back and biting us.

1. Subsidize alternative energy resources.
2. Subsidize companies who take steps to use less energy.
3. Develop further, programs to reduce dependence on foregin energy sources.
4. Begin to search for more oil for the time being.
5. Encourage steps to become a more efficient society.

[1] Krautkraemer, J. A. 1998. Nonrenewable resource scarcity. Journal of Economic Literature, 36: 2065-2107.
and
www.oilanalytics.org...

Originally posted by Duzey

I was at the gas station this morning, and it is now 107.5 a litre in Vancouver. I believe we have the highest prices in Canada. Good thing I only went to pick up the paper.

The other day I put $15 in the tank near my house in central-west Toronto @ .88/litre and then drove to the east end (Scarborough). Along the way I saw prices around .85. Driving back downtown via another route later, I filled up the rest of the tank at 82.3 in an area known for gas wars. They fluctuate a lot day to day, but 82 is about the lowest it's been in weeks.

My buddy was here from Calgary the other day and told me prices there were around 91 there. Funny, I thought it would be cheaper in Alberta, if not for anything but there's no sales tax there.

I think you're right - the coasts pay much higher prices for gas. Last summer while downeast the prices were in the high 90's and as we drove through Quebec and Ontario the prices gradually lowered and were in the 70's at home.

Its all a big game they're playing to f*ck us up for sure.



[edit on 1/5/05 by AlwaysLearning]

I'll have to find that article I ran across last night/early am, but the price of gas in the Netherlands is $6.16 a gallon.

Found it while doing this:
Going to see America

Unleaded in Europe is pricey, too. Drivers in Greece currently pay the least, according to AA Roadwatch, shelling out the equivalent of $3.93 per gallon. The popularity of bicycles in The Netherlands is not surprising. Unleaded goes for the rate of $6.16 a gallon there.

seekerof

Originally posted by AlwaysLearning
You folks have been lucky and continue to be lucky, for all that you think otherwise!

I don't know about lucky, in Europe gas prices are normally high by design, and have been for years, as you note. I'm just wondering if the same thing thats going on in the US (supposedly due to high demand and low refining capacity) is happening in the rest of the world. If it was something 'done by opec' then I'd think that it must, but if its specific to the US, then it'd have to do more with the processes inside the US. Tho you seem to be saying that its happening in Canada too.

In Britian, who have traditionally always had more expensive gas, my fiance said that gas prices are going way up there, and it has created problems for many people. He had to communte to a job he had 50 miles each way, so he always rode his motorcycle. When he came to visit me last month, he was quite surprised by our gas prices, which he said, although were still much lower than over there, were far higher than he had anticipated. He said that their gas is going up like ours, but because they have more public transit, it hasnt had as much effect as it has had here.

I myself am unaffected by the rise in gas, in general. Anything that is within a 5 mile radius to my home has always, in my opinion, been walking distance. I only drive my car when I have to make trips to the south part of Seattle metro, or when I am driving to Seattle. I hate short distance city drives, as just the hassle of having to find parking, navigate through traffic, ect. When I went to get gas yesterday to fill up my tank, I paid 30 dollars and it only brought my tank to 3/4. Even tho this is expensive and I am on a very small income, this gas also will last me a while, since I rarely use my car for anything unless necessary.

Even when gas was cheap, I still was never a frequent driver, prefering to walk to areas nearby, as not only did I enjoy the walk, its simply less hassle than a car. I think this rise in gas prices will be the best thing thats ever happened to this country in recent years. It will force people off their lazy asses to start walking to the corner store, or the nearby park, or school, and perhaps we will see a drop in obesity rates. I also hope this will push local city, county and some state governments to build desperately needed railways and quick, effective public transit for people to be able to communte to work quickly and efficently. It is something that has made me very angry, the lack of metro transits in many major US metropolitan areas, that stretch from the city into the suburbs. I am opposed to buses, buses can hardly be considered good transit, as they use the same roads as other traffic, thus get stuck in traffic jams, are often late, dirty, and ineffeicent, and I can barely blame mmy fellow American for not wanting to use them. Youre better off, both time wise and moneywise, driving.

However, well constructed light rails, trams, cablecars, and commuter trains are both economical, and are time savers. They do not use roads, are alot more feequent than buses. I remeber when I had to commute to Seattle from Federal way, only about 15 miles away, with traffic, I spent 50 minutes going to Seattle, and about 1 hour and 20 minutes comming home. I took the same trip on a bus, and it took 2 1/2 hours to get there and back. Buses should be scrapped period. I do not have that kind of time to waste. Had the local transit authorities spent more time building trains and rails instead of adding more carpool lanes to the freeways, Id have been more than happy to take a train to work every day instead of my car. Save me money and time. With a good rail and train system in place, I could actually spend less time commuting than I would driving.

I hope gas prices to continue to rise, to force people to finally start demanding better public transit. I love driving, mind you. I love nothing more than to make road trips down to California, or go driving out to the coast, or up to Mt Rainier or the Cascades. But I do not enjoy sitting in traffic, or having to drive to other towns to get things I need. If we had good rails like they had when I was in Germany, I could save time, money, and frustration.

The rising gas prices wont ruin our economy though, if we use it for something positive.

"I hope gas prices to continue to rise, to force people to finally start demanding better public transit. I love driving, mind you. I love nothing more than to make road trips down to California, or go driving out to the coast, or up to Mt Rainier or the Cascades. But I do not enjoy sitting in traffic, or having to drive to other towns to get things I need. If we had good rails like they had when I was in Germany, I could save time, money, and frustration.

The rising gas prices wont ruin our economy though, if we use it for something positive." -quoting Skadi_the_Evil_Elf (sorry I messed up the quote thing)



It is happening already, look up UN local agenda 21. I'm with you man, no need to pay for petrol if you live within five miles of where you work and go to school. It is the way of the future and we are at the doorstep.

www.un.org/esa/sustdev/agenda21.htm

www.crossroad.to/text/articles/la21_198.html

[edit on 2-5-2005 by Eyeofhorus]

Well, I dont know about Un agendas, as I do not care for nor trust the UN, and certainly dont want them involved in local metro politics. But minus the UN, its a worthy goal for any major metro area in any nation to achieve,

I believe it is something we dont need the UN for, but instead a concerted wide based citizen effort and lobby to get our local govornments to start spending our tax dollars to improve the communities we live in, and efficent, clean, solid public transit is a must for any major city. Save Time, Money, the environment, ect. I feel that all the money they collect from gas taxes and car registration should be utilized to develop mass transit. This will lessen our usage of of sutomobiles, and would REALLY make a dent in our dependancy on Mid East Oil. If we had good public transit, Id stop driving my car at all, except to take the long , beautiful road trip that is the west coast US, and use the trains for all my urban traveling. The less money we feed into corrupt Arab Oil Barons, Greedy American Oil Companies, and corrupted govornments, the better, and hopefully, it will also move us quicker towards clean renewable power sources that we can become totally self sufficent in producing, and not have to depend on foreign countries who politics and loyalty are like quicksand.

Besides, the exercise I have always done because of my preferance to go places on foot has benefitted my health, wallet, and allows me to pig out on burgers, pizza, and icecream without ballooning up and getting fat, since I have to walk a good three miles to the nearest one.

Why are gas prices so much higher in Europe? I could understand a slight difference from the U.S., but geographically they are much closer to this source of oil, meaning less shipping fees and the likes right? What is the reason behind such outrageous prices?

Originally posted by UnMature
Why are gas prices so much higher in Europe? I could understand a slight difference from the U.S., but geographically they are much closer to this source of oil, meaning less shipping fees and the likes right? What is the reason behind such outrageous prices?

i think the reason is US have more connections...

I hate that Americans get so much cheaper gas than the other rich nations if i payed american prices for gas i would be one happy man! you guys have it easy.

The reason probably for the outrageous prices probably has a lot to do with connections and that the US uses more gas than anyone else, so they probably get a cheaper price on it i guess.

I would also think it has to do with the metric system that corporations can get away with charging more

Also, corporations can get away with it in the rest of the world, but if the average american redneck was paying what we pay, he'd take his 12 guage to capitol hill and get those prices down again :L

correct me if i'm wrong, but govt fuel excise on gas in the US is 48%?

[edit on 2-5-2005 by drfunk]

[edit on 2-5-2005 by drfunk]

[edit on 2-5-2005 by drfunk]

Originally posted by drfunk


correct me if i'm wrong, but govt fuel excise on gas in the US is 48%?

48%, more like over 50%. I belong to what is called a Co-Op, and if you use the diesel fuel they sell in a vehicle manufactured for on road use, there is a tax attached to it. I went to the co-op one day to fill up some gas cans for some farm equipment we had. Upon payment i was asked something along the lines of. "will this fuel be used off road in farm implements, for non-recreational use" to which i replied yes. The cashier then took off the "road tax" (federal and state) and the price of the gasoline went from $1.71 (U.S.) to 83 cents (U.S.) a gallon, at the time. Turns out this is true for all gasoline sold at the co-op, as long as it is used off road those in the co-op can purchase gasoline without paying the full tax imposed by the government.

Even i was surprised at the time, illusions of filling gas cans and driving down the street and putting them into my truck came to mind. But i agree that the tax is full-on ridiculous, because it is paid for threefold by the consumer.

look at it fom an economic standpoint:
Oil starts trading at above $50.00 (U.S.)
-the cost of refining goes up, allowing the refinery to charge more for its final product.
-the cost is incurred by all companies that use fossil fuels (nat. gas, heating oil, gasoline, etc.)
*keep in mind tax is accrewed on every transaction.
-These companies are forced to charge more for their final product, because they expend more for energy.
-The price change of oil is reflected across all goods and services because of the nature of economics.
-The consumer gets the proverbial shaft. They end up paying more than the supposed tax percentage, because the taxes charged to the company and by the free market enterprises is reflected threefold across the price of goods.

I love capitalism, it makes so much sense sometimes.

[edit on 2-5-2005 by Eyeofhorus]

Just to illustrate the difference between the U.S. and Canada, I did the conversion.
1 gallon = 3.785 litres, so:

Duzey in Vancouver paying $1.07 =- $4.05 gallon (@ 1.20 = $3.35 US)

Me in Toronto:

.88 = $3.30 ($2.75)
.82 = $3.10 ($2.59)

Today driving around I again saw two different prices 87.9 and 83.5 in two different areas. But that could change on a dime - in the last two weeks I've seen prices in the 90's. This is for regular unleaded.

Toronto seems to have lower prices than other places in Ontario and of course on the coasts the prices are crazy. I feel sorry for the folks down east because those provinces are not as affluent as the other provinces.

Canada has no shortage of resources (though we send a lot of it south because of NAFTA)...OPEC has a lot to do with this. And I think everyone blames the middle east countries, but the 7 sisters are in there like a dirty shirt raking in the profits too.

The U.S. has much lower prices than anyone else I think because of relations with Saudia Arabia.

Though annoying, I realize that we're still pretty lucky compared to many places in the world.


[edit on 2/5/05 by AlwaysLearning]

Originally posted by AlwaysLearning
Duzey in Vancouver paying $1.07 =- $4.05 gallon (@ 1.20 = $3.35 US)

And that, my dear, is why I take the train to work now. At this time last year it was around 79.9 and I thought that was bad!

On a sort of related note... last year, before I changed jobs, I worked in the plastics industry. For the first three quarters of 2004, we received blanket increases from all of our suppliers based in the US and Canada, ranging from 5% - 12%, approximately every three months. We kept our fingers crossed that the price of oil would go down, or even just stop going up quite so much, but no luck.

Eventually we had to switch over to China for a lot of stock. They offer much lower prices, but it is not of the same quality. It's not junk, but the American products tended to exceed specs, while these just barely met them.





[edit on 2-5-2005 by Duzey]

Originally posted by ulshadow

Originally posted by UnMature
Why are gas prices so much higher in Europe? I could understand a slight difference from the U.S., but geographically they are much closer to this source of oil, meaning less shipping fees and the likes right? What is the reason behind such outrageous prices?

i think the reason is US have more connections...

No... it's because European government tax much higher in order to force people out of their cars.
For example... 80% of the price paid at the pumps in the Uk is tax.

[edit on 7-5-2005 by Lucretius]