NEWS: American Soldiers Cleared In Italian Agents Death

The United States soldiers involved in the accidental shooting of Italian Agent Nicola Calipari have been cleared of any wrong doing by the US Army. No further disciplinary action is to be taken. "This was a tragic accident," said investigating officer Brig. Gen. Peter Vangjel adding his "deepest sympathies" to Calipari's family.



Im very suprised at this result. I seriously thought these US soliders would be sacrificed to smooth over the Italian/US rift resulting from this shooting. No sacrifcial lambs? Well I guess Italy just isnt important enough to the Bush Administration.

How no further action can be taken in a case that resulted in an innocent persons death is beyond me. Re-training in how to identify a target at the very least? Nope, nothing.

[edit on 30/4/05 by subz]

The Italians are conducting their own investigation, it should be interesting to see a.) if that commences b.) if it's completed, and c.) what the findings are if it is completed.

I have heard all sorts of rumors about this case, none of which are at all substantiated (nor is the official story from what I've seen).

So I hope the Italian investigation sheds some light on the incident. They should be able to refer the soldiers involved to the international war crimes court if the incident warrants that.

How can they investigate? The only one that lived was the passenger. Thats a little to biased of an opinion, dont ya think? Its real simple...When the 7th calvary is pointing the guns at you, telling you to stop...well....stop!!

DUH..

Italy just wants an excuse to get out of there, cuz they are scared.

They should be able to refer the soldiers involved to the international war crimes court if the incident warrants that.

Huh, what are you talking about? They were on the most dangerous road in the world going faster than they should have.

Common sense would dictate......SLOW THE FREAK DOWN!!!!

Anyways, what I dont understand.......They say they could not see the troops cause the bright spotlights...then why the hell were they continuing to drive if they could not see?

I saw this last night:

ROME - After a month-long investigation, the U.S. and Italy said they cannot agree on whether American soldiers are to blame for the death of an Italian intelligence officer at a Baghdad checkpoint.

In a statement, the two countries, which participated in a joint investigation into the March 4 death of agent Nicola Calipari, said they could not come to any "shared final conclusions."

Italy, U.S. disagree over death of Italian agent

It goes on to say that the Italians will issue their final report in a few days.

That woman has very little credibility she was still trying to blame the whole thing on the US saying that her captors said that a US death squad was after her because she was to be freed. I mean WTF then she say that the soldiers came out of nowhere and opened fire on her. She is sooo anti american that she is siding with people who would have beheaded her if her government didn't give X number or millions. I would have finished her off and burried the everything if I were them, this woman is going to undermine the war in iraq with some of our european allies, specially the italians worse then the whole torture scandal. She was a media puppet before her capture and god knows why even more so after her release.

This will mark the end of the italian support in iraq, the italians were all ready against the wall for supporting the war, the overwhelming vast majority of their population was against the war to begin with and they still try to help out. You might not appreciate that but just imagine the US government going out on a limp with little interest to itself for another country when over 70% of the population was bitterly against it. I dont think we should begrudge other government for following the clear will of their people. Look at what happened in spain to see what our allies are getting in return for supporting us and Tony Blair may pay a price too, I’ve heard that %40-%50 of the population is against the war in iraq. So I don’t think italy is looking for an excuse to leave, heck they have been bending themselves backwards trying to keep their people complacent with their efforts to help out in iraq but if the people aren’t behind it what can you do?

Spliff
If you read up a little on the situation you will find some information on what techniques the Italian investigators plan to use. Mostly ballistics, to determine the source of the fire, and the distance from the car.

Sporty
If you followed this story, you would know that one of the main points of contention is the speed at which the car was travelling. You're taking the story of one side as gospel.

Oblivions

I would have finished her off and burried the everything if I were them, this woman is going to undermine the war in iraq with some of our european allies, specially the italians worse then the whole torture scandal.

That would make you a murderer, wouldn't it? Have you thought about joining up with a mercenary band? You appear quite cold-blooded. Perfect for that line of work.

[edit on 30-4-2005 by WyrdeOne]

If you followed this story, you would know that one of the main points of contention is the speed at which the car was travelling. You're taking the story of one side as gospel

Your Right.

It's sad they died. But to me it seems like a no brainer.....stop when a bright light is on you, wether you see troops or not...STOP.

Well the troops were just doing there job, for all they knew it could have been a car bomber.

Another note, this shows poor communication between the US and the Italians. They should have coordinated with each when the vehicle would be coming and the Italians should have gave a heads up to thier presence and that they would be passing thorugh. They may have, Im not sure.

It's sad they died. But to me it seems like a no brainer.....stop when a bright light is on you, wether you see troops or not...STOP.

They were probably afraid to stop. I don't think it's a no-brainer, I think it's a really tough decision. You're driving through a war zone. A bright light trains itself on the car. In my mind, speeding up sounds like a pretty good idea, along with evasive maneuvers.

Well the troops were just doing there job, for all they knew it could have been a car bomber.

Again, this is where the official story and the journalist's story don't mesh. She says they were warned ahead of time that the car was coming, and should have been ready for them. This aspect of the story needs to be better figured out. I think it's almost impossible at this stage though, because the man who was communicating with the Americans is dead I believe.

Another note, this shows poor communication between the US and the Italians. They should have coordinated with each when the vehicle would be coming and the Italians should have gave a heads up to thier presence and that they would be passing thorugh. They may have, Im not sure.

Well, it's up for debate. Nobody outside the situation knows for sure. Hopefully the Italian investigation will shed some more light on this as well. We can hope right?

Originally posted by spliff4020
How can they investigate? The only one that lived was the passenger.

I guess you haven't followed the story very closely.
There were more than two people in the car. The only one killed was Calipari.

The troops opened fire on the car carrying Sgrena and two Italian intelligence agents, wounding her and the driver. Nicola Calipari, a veteran agent and hostage negotiator, was killed shielding Sgrena. link

The driver has come forward to dispute the US version of events so it's not just Sgreana's testimony that goes against the US.

Can the driver dispute this, AceOfBase?
US satellite recorded checkpoint shooting, shows speed of Italian car: CBS

There is a whole lot of discrepancies in what the driver and Sgrena are asserting.
Another Sgrena Lie?

I have an unconfirmed story that CBS is reporting an American satellite recorded video that shows the car carrying Giulliana travelling at over 60 mph! If this proves to be true her entire story falls apart.

Update: It's confirmed, Pentagon sources maintain that the distance the car travelled (91 feet)and the time it took (3 sec.) means the vehicle WAS travelling at a speed greater than 60mph.

---snip--

It appears from the animation video that the approaching Sgrena car WAS warned with flashing lights and warning fire.

seekerof

[edit on 30-4-2005 by Seekerof]

Originally posted by SportyMB
Another note, this shows poor communication between the US and the Italians. They should have coordinated with each when the vehicle would be coming and the Italians should have gave a heads up to thier presence and that they would be passing thorugh. They may have, Im not sure.

The Italians did contact the US to let them know they were there.

agi.it

Calipari knew that the mission was risky, but once Sgrena had been released all he had to do was arrange the necessary documentation for her to leave Baghdad. From evidence given by Sgrena, the driver, and General Mario Marioli) it seems that Calipari was not lax over those hours. The agreement between Calipari and Marioli, the vice commander of coalition forces who had the 25 year old Captain Green at his side, planned for a meeting point at a small square on the way to the airport.

www.indybay.org...

AMY GOODMAN: Did you get permission, did Calipari get permission to drive on the road to the airport?

GIULIANA SGRENA: Of course, I was there when they called. They called the Italian, because there is an official that is linked to the Americans. And this Italian general spoke to the Captain Green, that is the American one, telling him that we were on this road and that they were aware that we were on that road. And this happened at least 20-25 minutes before the shooting.

AMY GOODMAN: This road…

GIULIANA SGRENA: They knew that we were on this road.

AMY GOODMAN: How do you know that they knew?

GIULIANA SGRENA: I know because I was there when the agent called the Italian one, the general that is in charge for the communication with the Americans, and this general did a testifying, telling that he was there with the Captain Green, and Captain Green was immediately informed about our traveling to the airport. And the Captain Green didn’t say no, so I think that he’s right. And he’s a general. I don’t think that this general made a wrong, false testifying.

AMY GOODMAN: So you’re saying Calipari spoke to -- this was an Italian or US general?

GIULIANA SGRENA: The Italians, they can’t speak to the Americans directly. There is a man, a special man, a general that is in charge for the communication with the American commanders. It’s impossible for an agent, an Italian agent, to speak with the Americans directly. I knew the rules because I was there many times. And I know that every time always in Iraq there is an Italian that is in charge for the communication with the Americans. And in this time, in this moment, was a general that was there speaking with the Commander Green that was the correspondent, American one. So I knew about that. And in all the newspaper, Italian newspaper, was published that. So there is no problem of communication. Commander Green knew about our presence on that road. If he didn’t inform the mobile patrol, we don’t know. But he knew, the commander, the American commander knew about it.

Originally posted by Seekerof
Can the driver dispute this, AceOfBase?
US satellite recorded checkpoint shooting, shows speed of Italian car: CBS

There is a whole lot of discrepancies in what the driver and Sgrena are asserting.
Another Sgrena Lie?

I actually had missed that.
Thanks for posting.
That disputes the US claim that the car was travelling at over 100MPH.

Has anyone seen a copy of this animation with the light?

Yeah, thats a swell and good, but seemingly, the message of "agreement" and "knowledge" didn't reach the US soldiers, did it AceOfBase?

Apparently, if the message had, then the US soldiers would not have been been flashing their lights or giving warning fire, now would they?



seekerof

Originally posted by AceOfBase
I actually had missed that.
Thanks for posting.
That disputes the US claim that the car was travelling at over 100MPH.

Has anyone seen a copy of this animation with the light?

What you have apparently missed also is that it also refutes what the Italians have been asserting for car speed.
Your welcome, nice try.



seekerof

as posted by AceOfBase
That disputes the US claim that the car was travelling at over 100MPH.

There has been question as to what Yahoo reported in mph.
One example:

as posted by finnman69
the soldiers manning the checkpoint first spotted the Italian car when it was 137 yards (meters) away. By the time they opened fire and brought the car to a halt, it was 46 yards (meters) away.

1 meter = 39.37 inches, which is roughly one yard. But
137 (yards) * 36 (in/yard) / 39.37 (in/meter) = 127.27 meters
and

46 (yards) * 36 (in/yard) / 39.37 (in/meter) = 42 meters.

as posted by finnman69
A simple calculus problem, but I get 125 MPH:

D = Distance (yards) traveled as a function of time.
V = Velocity (yards/sec) as a function of time.
K = Deceleration which is normally a constant.
t = time in seconds

The basic equations:

D = (A/2)(t)(t) + Bt + C
V = At + B
K = A

From the data given, when t=0, D = 0 because this is where we are starting. Also:

0 = C : This is from substituting 0 for both D and t in the first equation.

When t = 3, D = 137 - 46 or 91 yards and V = 0 yards/second and you get two equations with two unknowns:

91 = (A/2)x3x3 + 3B = 9A/2 + 3B (distance equation)
0 = 3A + B (speed equation)

What we want to do is solve for B. That's the initial speed:

B = 2 x 91 / 3 = 60 yards / second

To convert to MPH:

B = 60 x (3600 secs/hr) / (1750 yards/mile) = 125 MPH

I don't know, maybe deceleration isn't a constant.

US satellite recorded checkpoint shooting, shows speed of Italian car: CBS




seekerof

[edit on 30-4-2005 by Seekerof]

WyrdeOne

this woman is asserting that the soldiers are responsible and opperate a lot worse than what I was suggestion as an MO. and alot of our black ops opperate by either compromising or getting rid of people who threaten our political interest overseas either directly or indirectly. One of the Special forces montra from what my understanding is limit/avoid polical embarassment to government (not %100 percent on the wording feel free to correct me). I would have much rather explain a stay bullet hitting this woman in a vital organ than her harping about a US death squad combin Iraq left and right to get rid of her and her kidnapping ordeal giving even more credibility. But I wouldn't want the regular military (non spec-ops/CIA) having to even contemplate actions like this and your right about that. However look at what at what the whitewashing ("cleaning up") of CIA operations in the decades prior to 911 did to our intelligence service. In order to be effective you have to be have to take decisive and sometimes brutal action. Niping problems covertly and effectively when they are small.

Originally posted by Seekerof
There has been question as to what Yahoo reported in mph.

There's either a problem with my math and with CBS' math or the guy at Freerepublic just got it wrong.

My calculations are presented below, if anyone finds a problem with them please post corrections.



EDIT: Row 9 should say 'Distance travelled (miles)' instead of yards.

[edit on 30-4-2005 by AceOfBase]

Oblivions
I don't really buy that American Special forces would assassinate an innocent news reporter. Perhaps they were given information that she was working with terrorists? Perhaps the death squad was from South/Central America? Maybe she's just totally full of crap, who knows.

Only way to tell will be an in depth investigation.

And I understand problem solving, but that doesn't include shooting Italian women. Killing a murderous drug lord with a well placed satchel charge? Sure, I'll okay that. Waxing a tyrant with a silent bullet to prevent him from torturing captured soldiers, fine. If this was an assassination attempt, it probably would have been successful. That's my thought anyway.

No, what I think happened was a mistake, pure and simple. But those responsible for the mistake should own up to it. If it's the driver, or the soldiers, doesn't matter. The chain of events needs to be accounted for, the actions of the soldiers and the driver should be reviewed, and any applicable charges should be filed.

You know the world has gone insane when due process, the systematic and rational accounting of all information and evidence, brands you a terrorist sympathizer.

Originally posted by subz
How no further action can be taken in a case that resulted in an innocent persons death is beyond me.[edit on 30/4/05 by subz]

Agreed. The minimum that should be done is that the journalist be made to pay for the legal costs of the courts martial.

So I hope the Italian investigation sheds some light on the incident. They should be able to refer the soldiers involved to the international war crimes court if the incident warrants that.

The journalist should be put on trial for lying about the circumstances surrounding this event. Jail time would be appropriate punishment for her crimes.