NEWS: 10,000 Orthodox Jews demostrate against Israel, beatings in NYC

Over 10,000 Orthodox Jews demonstrated against the legitamacy of the state of Israel over the past few days. The site of protest was the Israeli consulate in NYC. Among their gripes, include the recent destruction of antiquated Jewish cemetaries to pave the way for a new highway. The protestors noted that Orthodox Jews were beaten by police when trying to stop the construction. The violence was not limited to this area though as violent clashes also took place outside the Transportation Ministry in Israel as well.



While the focus on Israel involves the extensive demonstrations surrounding a pullout from the Gaza Strip, there remains another point of civil discontent surrounding the state of Israel. Many Orthodox around the world note that Zionism, the popular term for the political body of the state of Israel, does not represent the Jewish religion. Jews within and outside of Israel differ greatly on where the direction of Israel should go. Some believe that Israel has the right to any land it can get its hands on, some believe it has rights to no land. But how can the Israeli government appease its people at large, without alienating a significant portion of others? Israel is sitting at a crossroads, and its stability remains in question.

Related News Links:
www.ynetnews.com
www.nkusa.org

[edit on 30-4-2005 by Jamuhn]

As to appeasement, the simple answer is, they can't. There's no such thing as a true compromise, when progress is facing off against tradition.

The size of this protest suprises me, and I wonder what sort of response will be forthcoming. Probably nothing, but one can hope.

I don't believe in religious states, I think it's a really bad idea to mix religion and politics. For that reason, I don't think there should be a jewish state. I don't think the Christians need a state, nor Islam. It's a recipe for disaster.

I think everyone deserves the right to practice their religion (as long as it doesn't interfere in any way with the rights of others). This can be accomplished in a suitably compassionate secular state. It cannot be accomplished in a religious state, because it will necessarily look down on and persecute those of other religions.

Anyway, interesting news, thanks for posting it.

This is news to me, I didnt realise that a major part of Jewish Orthodoxy claim Israel is an illegitmate state. Thats mindboggling.

The entire justification for the creation of Israel was for a "Jewish homeland". Now if the Jewish faith expressly prohibits such a state then the whole argument is null. The Jewish Homeland argument is nothing but a charade for purely imperialistic motives. Wow.

Just a few calculations, 10,000 Jewish protestors equates to about 0.07% of the total amount of Jews world wide. Thats a considerable percentage to protest a single issue, especially given the gravity of the issue.

To highlight the percentage importance of this protest consider that 0.07% of Americans would be: 20.7 million people protesting the validity of their own homeland.

Or 142.7 million Christians protesting a single issue.

Its a very large proportion.
The Jewish Population of the World
Religions of the World

[edit on 30/4/05 by subz]

The article is misleading. The protest was about a highway being built in Israel. Apparently it goes through grave sites and that is why the orthodox jews are protesting. Massive protests are going on in Israel as well. The article doesn't even mention the highway, just the pictures of unearthed graves. There is more to the story.

Here is some more information about the Orthodox Jew protest of the Trans-Israel Highway:

"The security people we brought with us were arrested and then they started beating us. Three of our people were even taken to hospital," a protester said.

A Trans-Israel spokesman, Aryeh Shabtai, said "they came for a demonstration and everyone employs his own measures."

Thursday's protest was part of ongoing ultra-Orthodox opposition to the road work. Shabtai denies any harm to burial caves.

"Three weeks ago we opened two graves in the presence of Ministry of Religious Affairs representatives. All specimens found, bones and ashes, were taken by them for burial. The current work site contains no graves. There are two or three burial caves on the outskirts of the site and they're not touched. Their claims are about graves at Regavim, so why are they coming to demonstrate at Ein Tut, where there are no graves at all? I guess the graves don't interest them; they have other motives. We will prepare for everything," Shabtai said.

www.haaretzdaily.com...

The beatings were actually started after police men where injured from bricks and metal beams thrown by protestors who protested the route 6 highway being built over gravesites. This article is fraudulent.

There are ultra-orthodox sects that do not agree with Zionism or the foundation of a state of Israel but they are extreme fanatics. This protest was not about anti-zionism.

Originally posted by JudahMaccabbi
This protest was not about anti-zionism.

Then, what was it about?

If you had read the link without the crossed out israeli flag, you would have seen that it was about the trans-israeli highway.

www.ynetnews.com...

The article you should have used as your source, as it contains no bias, and actually gives the reasons for the protests.

From ynetnews.com
Work on Trans - Israel Highway stopped

Interior Minister’s decision comes amid fierce clashes between ultra-Orthodox and police; rabbis claim highway passes over ancient Jewish graves; ultra-Orthodox protested in front of Israeli consulate in New York.

The ultra-Orthodox are protesting the construction of the highway, as some Orthodox rabbis who claim the road passes over ancient Jewish graves have called on followers to demonstrate against the ongoing road works.

Also Thursday, ultra-Orthodox demonstrated in front of the Israeli consulate in New York; the protesters demanded the construction of the highway be stopped.

As you can see this wasn't about anti-zionist sentiment, but about a highway being built over gravesites.

Originally posted by LeftBehind
As you can see this wasn't about anti-zionist sentiment, but about a highway being built over gravesites.

Yes, and if you read the story as I presented it, you will see that this was the first order of business I stated for the protest. But, this protest was not only about the highway, as I wanted to show. Please read the sources and my story next time.

Originally posted by Jamuhn
Yes, and if you read the story as I presented it,

Right, that's what I'm saying. You presented a biased view of the situation, and then posted an article that focused only on the signs with antizionist slogans. Your main source does not even mention the highway.

Your point was to show that some orthodox jews are anti-zionist. Your title makes us think the protest was just Anti-Israel, but it was about the highway. Your article does not tell the whole story. It is biased, as is your source with the crossed-out israeli flag. This is supposed to be for news, not spin.

[edit on 30-4-2005 by LeftBehind]

Originally posted by LeftBehind
Your point was to show that some orthodox jews are anti-zionist. Your article does not tell the whole story. It is biased, as is your source with the crossed-out israeli flag. This is supposed to be for news, not spin.

So, its biased to present a view on what actually happened at the protest. Wow! Thanks for sharing that with me. I didn't know I wasn't allowed to say what people were actually saying at the protest. By the way, the only reason I presented that last link is because it contains pictures. Look, if you disagree with what these Orthodox Jews are saying, than just say it, because obviously they do think that the Israel state doesn't have legitmacy. Deal with it.

It is biased to only portray that part of the protest. Since the only reason the protest was held was the Trans-Israeli highway, perhaps your title should have mentioned it.

So yes, it is biased to only report on the part of the story that you wanted to tell.

Bias: [n] a partiality that prevents objective consideration of an issue or situation.

Partiality: [n] an inclination to favor one group or view or opinion over alternatives

Originally posted by LeftBehind
The article is misleading. The protest was about a highway being built in Israel. Apparently it goes through grave sites and that is why the orthodox jews are protesting. Massive protests are going on in Israel as well. The article doesn't even mention the highway, just the pictures of unearthed graves. There is more to the story.

Is this Highway supposed to go throught another Palestinian House maybe?

Or an Olive Grove?

Tanks protecting Bulldozers again?

Your damn right they are Protesting!

Originally posted by LeftBehind
It is biased to only portray that part of the protest. Since the only reason the protest was held was the Trans-Israeli highway, perhaps your title should have mentioned it.

So yes, it is biased to only report on the part of the story that you wanted to tell.

Do I really need to quote my entire Intro paragraph for you. The immediate goal of the protest was to call for an end to the construction of the Trans-Israel highway. The overall goal of the protest was to express their view that the Israeli government is illegitimate. To turn a blind eye to the overall goal of the protest would be biased, which is why I reported on the protest as a whole. Even in my conclusion paragraph, I didn't express my views on whether Israel is legitimate. I said that obviously people are unhappy with the country and its stability is in question.

The entire focus of your argument is on a short paragraph blurb about the protest on an Israeli website. Instead, I chose to focus on the protest itself and found the relevant article, understand?

Obviously, you didn't care to read the entire story nor realize that this protest was put on by Jews speaking out against the legitamacy of the Israeli government. I think your wrong in that if I portrayed the story in the way you want to see it, then it would be biased.

Don't forget, I'm also available via U2U if you want more information about why I presented the story the way I did.

[edit on 30-4-2005 by Jamuhn]

There are religious Jews who supports the idealistic homeland of Israel (Judaism) just as there are irreligious Jews who supports the existence of the Jewish state (Zionism).

The whole point of Zionism is the establishment of a Jewish homeland for the world's Jews and a Jewish state governed by the Jewish people for the world's Jews and Palestinian Jews.

Which is why a large numbers of Jews around the world have dual citizenships.

So at the heart of the issue: which one, Judaism or Zionism, should dictate the existence of Israel? There have to be a compromise to be made between the religious Jews and the non-religious/secular Jews to ensure the future survival of Israel.

Thank you the_oleneo, for putting it so plainly the idea I was trying to convery by this article. But apparently reporting the "other side's" view is biased. It will be tough for Israel to appease all these people, and it will be interesting to see where Israel decides to go. But, even the rabbis seem to be divided over this issue.

This is going nowhere. I see your main source article as biased, and your treatment of the story as biased against Israel.

So please refrain from insulting me, I read the entire article, I read all the sources. Is the israeli news article biased? Could be, but so is your title,

NEWS: 10,000 Orthodox Jews demostrate against Israel, beatings in NYC

As you can see it doesn't even mention the highway.

I understand that you wanted to focus on the anti-zionism and that is your choice to make. Just don't insult my intelligence by implying I didn't read the material.

Agreed to disagree.

Late


[edit on 30-4-2005 by LeftBehind]

Originally posted by Jamuhn
[Do I really need to quote my entire Intro paragraph for you. The immediate goal of the protest was to call for an end to the construction of the Trans-Israel highway. The overall goal of the protest was to express their view that the Israeli government is illegitimate. To turn a blind eye to the overall goal of the protest would be biased, which is why I reported on the protest as a whole. Even in my conclusion paragraph, I didn't express my views on whether Israel is legitimate. I said that obviously people are unhappy with the country and its stability is in question.

This one got me thinking: what if those Orthodox Jews would get a candidate to run to become a Prime Minister of Israel and actually wins the election? What would be the outcome of that?

Originally posted by the_oleneo
This one got me thinking: what if those Orthodox Jews would get a candidate to run to become a Prime Minister of Israel and actually wins the election? What would be the outcome of that?

Explain how in a democratic country a candidate who represents less the 5% of the population can become Prime Minister.
You seem to miss out on the insignificance of this population in terms of their numbers - 5000 people out of 6 million. Here is some background on that group of Jews.
www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org...

The numbers outlined in that story were also exaggerated at least regarding the protest in Israel.

Originally posted by JudahMaccabbi
Explain how in a democratic country a candidate who represents less the 5% of the population can become Prime Minister.
You seem to miss out on the insignificance of this population in terms of their numbers - 5000 people out of 6 million. Here is some background on that group of Jews.
www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org...

The numbers outlined in that story were also exaggerated at least regarding the protest in Israel.

I'm just asking what if. It could be any Orthodox Jew running for the high office.