Did jesus have Babies?!? Why not?

Originally posted by Vesuvius 13
Okay, im sure almost everyone knows the whole Da Vinci Code + Holy Blood, Holy Grail conspiracy. Jesus was married to Mary magdalene(maybe), and even (maybe) had babies! Well, personally, i do believe jesus had children, not sure it was necessarily with Mary Magdalene. I also believe Jesus, after the ressurection, and after he supposedly ascended into heaven(ppl. naturally assume when a great spiritual teacher asscends in a cloud up into the skies, that of course he must be asscending into heaven) that he spent his last years in the country of India, where he also spent his lost years. In India he settled down finally(hell i would after soo much suffering) had children(maybe just a few, maybe many), and eventually entered Mahasamadhi(this is a hindu term for when a great spritual master/yogi dies at will, they simply leave their body) after a long life(im guessing 120-140 yrs old). This is the basics of my bias/opinion of Jesus after the crucifixion, now on to the point of this thread.

Allrighty, christians might actually appreciate this thread for all i know, but im going to show that maybe Jesus DID have a wife children, and ended with a long life after the crucifixion. BASED on what you may read from the BIBLE. You would have a hard time denying this since christians are supposed to believe that the Bible is the truth. Allright, ill stop making you wait, please open and turn your bibles to Old Testament book of Isaiah, chapter 53 verse 10. I'll repeat in abbreviated version, Isaiah 53:10.
This is a prophecy of the messiah(jesus)...and it prophecized that jesus would have a long life(after his teachings were done) with many children.

NLT(New Living Translation) Isaiah 53:10
But it was the LORD's good plan to crush him and fill him with grief. Yet when his life is made an offering for sin, he will have a multitude of children, many heirs. He will enjoy a long life, and the LORD's plan will prosper in his hands.

NIV(New International Version) Isaiah 53:10
Yet it was the LORD's will to crush him and cause him to suffer,
and though the LORD makes [a] his life a guilt offering,
he will see his offspring and prolong his days,
and the will of the LORD will prosper in his hand.

KJV(King James Version) Isaiah 53:10(Takes on a more old fashioned approach to children using the term "seed" instead)
Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

Jewish Tanakh from www.sacred-texts.com...
53:10 Yet it pleased the Lord to crush him by disease; to see if his soul would offer itself in restitution, that he might see his seed, prolong his days, and that the purpose of the Lord might prosper by his hand:

Okay, interested in the replies, enjoy, im sure the rest speaks for itself...
Best wishes,
Dani

Very interesting debate I'm sure, but for one thing: Jesus was NOT a Christian, he was born to Jewish parents and Christianity never got off the ground till long after He had departed....and depart He did!
Before He chose to be physically born here, (His last Incarnation by the way) He was instructed not to leave any writings behind and definitely NO children!

See Jake we all the sons and daughters of God after all

Wrong

Joh 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

As for your symantics about creation in Gods image..

The same way image is used in revelation, its used everywhere else. Only in your head does it mean a clone. Its an image of...not the original and not a clone.

No where in the bible does Jesus say if you have seen each other you have seen God.
He says anyone who has seen ME has seen GOD.

Now if twisting the bible makes you feel better about your own condition, then by all means, do it.

Originally posted by dbrandt
This is going to sound sarcastic and maybe is 10% sarcasm, but how would you know what the Jews of 1,978 years ago understood, when you weren't there?

[edit on 30-4-2005 by dbrandt]

Sort of like what you first did(claimed to know wtf they were thinking) before yekway ever posted it? That comment was very hippocritical, sorry.

Urghhhhh, it seems theres no escaping this religious debate!!
Isnt it amazing how ppl cant have a simple discussion of one small verse...
Thankyou everybody who simply input their opinions, or at least until you were rudely attacked for your opinions and had to take up offense. But oh well...
-Dani

P.S. By the way, i think that Jesus might have had real bioloogical children, after his teachings were spread, and in secret, so that nobody would know, b/c i agree he wouldnt want a set of heirs or something. Humans would have started an empire(oh wait they did, the pope still looks like an emperor) with men &women claiming to have divine authority being the only descendents of Jesus.(Oh wait the popes did that anyway...)

P.S2: I like your teddy to marg!!!!!!

[edit on 1-5-2005 by Vesuvius 13]

[edit on 1-5-2005 by Vesuvius 13]

Originally posted by Vesuvius 13

[edit on 30-4-2005 by dbrandt]

Sort of like what you first did(claimed to know wtf they were thinking) before yekway ever posted it? That comment was very hippocritical, sorry.

Urghhhhh, it seems theres no escaping this religious debate!!
Isnt it amazing how ppl cant have a simple discussion of one small verse...
Thankyou everybody who simply input their opinions, or at least until you were rudely attacked for your opinions and had to take up offense. But oh well...
-Dani







I think you are confusing me with somebody else. I don't believe I did what you said. Could you check on this because if I need to apologize I will but I believe you are talking about someone else.

[edit on 1-5-2005 by dbrandt]

Thankyou everybody who simply input their opinions...

Forming an opinion about something of which you dont have the slightest clue is ignorance at its fullest.

It is the root of racism, blind hate, fear, and countless inhumane events throughout history.
At least be informed before you hate christianity.

Deny Ignorance

[edit on 1-5-2005 by jake1997]

Did Jesus have children? Sure, its a possibility GIVEN that he existed!! There's a lot of debate over that as it is.

Originally posted by jake1997

Thankyou everybody who simply input their opinions...

Forming an opinion about something of which you dont have the slightest clue is ignorance at its fullest.

It is the root of racism, blind hate, fear, and countless inhumane events throughout history.

All of which can be pinned on christianity my dear.

This is yet another 'piece' of the Anti-Christian conspiracy.

Isnt that a bit of a suprise hmm?

P.S. Marg, I have a teddy too and his name is Dr. booboo

Originally posted by I_s_i_s

P.S. Marg, I have a teddy too and his name is Dr. booboo

I still keep my son's teddy after 18 years.

By the way is very interesting that we can argue about religion and bring historical facts to debate and get an inside of everybody's point of view.

But for some reason people that have a good point about religion because of their faith are few and scarce, all we have is an angry group that has not been able to prove anything but what their own interpretations of an ancient book that has been written over and over through centuries of Christian domination as a proven fact.

Actually the real accounts of the bible writing have been re formed so much that the once real contradictions are now easier to find than ever.

Jesus may have been real he may have been a fictional character, but whomever spread peace and love was real be Jesus or somebody else, and that is one of the best legacies of the bible books.

I said bible books because are many versions out there to satisfy more than one believer.

Is not about what the bible said or what is written in it.

I feel very sad about what some has done to the bible writings.

Is also about what humanity has been put up by the few that has found a way to manipulate the bible stories for money and power.

And they will never let it go, this few groups will do anything to force their distorted vision of the bible for their own agendas.

I read the bible and I interpret the bible in the way I read it, I have never been bind by it, and Is not my fault that to me with all my knowledge of historical facts the bible is nothing more than a historical and mythical mixture of lore and a very good interesting book to read.

I am not going to throw away historical facts that has been proved over interpretations of an ideology.

I can make my own interpretation, all the bible quotes, references and opinions are fine as long as it doesn't fall on insults when somebody can not prove their point.

I will encourage everybody to read the bible and then make their own conclusions.

One more thing is a reason why is so many churches and many religious denominations even when the believe is in one God and one Jesus by the christian.

The reason for this is that no even people can agree with their own the interpretations, so they form many churches to share their interpretations as close as they can, and if you are not happy is always the church down the street to help you with your “bible needs”

[edit on 1-5-2005 by marg6043]

All of which can be pinned on christianity my dear.

Wow!
Nero, is that you?




(I wonder how many will understand that)

Originally posted by jake1997
Wow!
Nero, is that you?


(I wonder how many will understand that)

Wow pope John XII, is that you!!!!!!?


(and for your information, i know exactly who nero is and what he did)

and here I was believing that each of us as individuals had the RIGHT to our own opinions without being told we're WRONG. We each have the right to our own beliefs without being DRAGGED into the whole church-basher scenario.

Lets look at this possibility:

1. Jesus was BORN i.e. HUMAN
2. EVERY human has the ability to be "IN LOVE"
3. Every human being has differing levels of "desires"
4. Every human being struggles with day to day life from time to time - just as Jesus did on many occasions.

SO....it is MORE than possible Jesus fathered children or fell in love.
It is part of the LIFE experience God intended for him, as he does for us all.
Personally, I don't feel that he did father children purely because I doubt he had the TIME lol. BUT....it IS possible. He was a MALE after all

Cheers

The thread title is "Did jesus have Babies?!? Why not?"
It seems a bit odd. You answered the question negatively in the title. Then went on to give an affirmative answer. I assume this means you wanted an arguement, but it will not come from me. I believe he had no wife and children.
The basis for my religious beliefs lie in the "fact" that he was executed, returned to life and went to Heaven. If he returned to live with a wife and children, my belief would be in error.

Originally posted by rawiea
The thread title is "Did jesus have Babies?!? Why not?"
It seems a bit odd. You answered the question negatively in the title. Then went on to give an affirmative answer. I assume this means you wanted an arguement, but it will not come from me. I believe he had no wife and children.
The basis for my religious beliefs lie in the "fact" that he was executed, returned to life and went to Heaven. If he returned to live with a wife and children, my belief would be in error.

You should have read the rest of the thread, my intentions were much the opposite. The title was neutral, you cant tell what emotions somebody is giving off thru the computer, lol.
This thread is simple, to recognize Isaiah 53:10 and see what everyone thinks about it. In fact, ive been having to tell people to stop starting debates and arguments b/c its exactly the opposite of what i want, please read the thread be4 judging me so quickly.(if you did sry, im assuming you didnt tho since i doubt you would have made that particular conclusion.) I wanted nice simple answers such as that which you gave! So thankyou, that happened to be exactly what i wished for!!!

By the way, everyone has pretty much answered the "multitude of children part of Isaiah 53:10, but what do ya'll think about the "prolong his years/life" or whatever????

Thanks!
Best wishes,
Dani

There is no record that Jesus had physical children. All records indicate that his children are spirutual. After Him not the tradtions of men. It is a spiritual revival and spiritual children of every kindred and tounge on the earth.
Also this stuff about the "sacred femminine" ...you never find this in Christian doctrine. This is a interpretation under the traditions of men ...snuck in from pagan origins to pass as if it was Christian. All references in Christianity are of the Soverinty and Holyness of God...not of sacred sexuality. All pagan references refer to the occult sacredness of sexuailty ..including and especially the sacred femminine.
No where in the Bible ..Olde or New Testament do you ever find any instruction to worship or glorify sexuality....ever.. Beware...of this counterfit.
This is how one knows what the gay movement is...it glorifys sexuality..it is their sole identifier...and is anti christian in doctrine. This is equally abominable gay or straight...no glorification of man by sexuality ..all glory goes to God. To do this is pagan. Amazing to me how many Christians cannot think this through.

All references to Jesus having sired physical children are a attempt to bring in the "traditons of men" and water down the Gospel version and insert a man made counterfit. This leads to the question ...What is the name of this counterfitter???? Someone please give me the name of this counterfitter??
Think on that awhile..believers!!!???

Orangetom

Originally posted by Vesuvius 13
You should have read the rest of the thread, my intentions were much the opposite. The title was neutral, you cant tell what emotions somebody is giving off thru the computer, lol.

This thread is simple, to recognize Isaiah 53:10 and see what everyone thinks about it. In fact, ive been having to tell people to stop starting debates and arguments b/c its exactly the opposite of what i want, please read the thread be4 judging me so quickly.(if you did sry, im assuming you didnt tho since i doubt you would have made that particular conclusion.) I wanted nice simple answers such as that which you gave! So thankyou, that happened to be exactly what i wished for!!!

By the way, everyone has pretty much answered the "multitude of children part of Isaiah 53:10, but what do ya'll think about the "prolong his years/life" or whatever????

Thanks!
Best wishes,
Dani

Yes,I did read the entire thread. It was not my intention to judge, I'm sorry if I did.
Sometimes it is easier to understand the Bible if you compare different translations. Yeah, I said compare. I am not one of those who refuse to consider any translation but one. Each brings something to help your understanding.
Also, I never read only one verse. I read some of the surrounding ones. It helps me put it in perspective, enabling me to understand a bit better. I used the Amplified Bible and copied some extra verses. To me , verse 10 seems to be speaking about Spiritual heirs.
Scripture quotations taken from the Amplified Bible.
lockman.gospelcom.net...
ISAIAH 53, 8-11
8By oppression and judgment He was taken away; and as for His generation, who among them considered that He was cut off out of the land of the living [stricken to His death] for the transgression of my [Isaiah's] people, to whom the stroke was due?
9And they assigned Him a grave with the wicked, and with a rich man in His death, although He had done no violence, neither was any deceit in His mouth.(D)
10Yet it was the will of the Lord to bruise Him; He has put Him to grief and made Him sick. When You and He make His life an offering for sin [and He has risen from the dead, in time to come], He shall see His [spiritual] offspring, He shall prolong His days, and the will and pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in His hand.
11He shall see [the fruit] of the travail of His soul and be satisfied; by His knowledge of Himself [which He possesses and imparts to others] shall My [uncompromisingly] righteous One, My Servant, justify many and make many righteous (upright and in right standing with God), for He shall bear their iniquities and their guilt [with the consequences, says the Lord].

Now, about that last question...

but what do ya'll think about the "prolong his years/life" or whatever????

...I'm glad that you are asking for an opinion. I'd say nothing if you wanted anything to back this up. In my opinion, the prolonged life indicates that the spirtiual heirs will not cease to exist. Christianity is here until the end of the world. The "justify many and make many righteous" part in vs 11 seems to indicate an ongoing process.
By the way, it may refer to the 1000 years Jesus will reign while Satan is in some sort of prison. That is mentioned in Revelations 20. bible.christiansunite.com...
Again, my apologies.

Vesuvius 13: Can you tell us more about Abhedananda? I have read his books with interest, but there is clearly a bookselling motif to his ministry. In fact, a lot of these people seem to be more booksellers than actual prophets or grass-roots religious persons. Can you tell us more about his background?

I like your posts and was sorry to see this kicked off ATS because I think you are onto something here.

Originally posted by smallpeeps
Vesuvius 13: Can you tell us more about Abhedananda? I have read his books with interest, but there is clearly a bookselling motif to his ministry. In fact, a lot of these people seem to be more booksellers than actual prophets or grass-roots religious persons. Can you tell us more about his background?

I like your posts and was sorry to see this kicked off ATS because I think you are onto something here.

Hello smallpeeps!!! Thanks for the sympathy, lol, i dont get ATS points in BTS! lol! What a bummer, lol...
About Abhedananda, i dont personally know alot about this swami, except that he as well claimed to have traveled to the same buddhist monastery in Himis, was shown the Jesus documents, and published his findings. Perhaps a new thread should be started on the subject of this, since this thread is actually mainly focused on Isaiah 53:10, and what everyone thinks it means. I'll go and do some research on Abhedananda for you, if i find alot of information ill start a thread with my findings and U2U you about it! I actually know where an online ebook about Abhedananda is, so ill take a look into it.
-Dani

There is no record that Jesus had physical children.
please provide documentation for this statement.

Also this stuff about the "sacred femminine" ...you never find this in Christian doctrine.
Of course not xianity is and always (at least since paul) has been a male oriented doctrine.

No where in the Bible ..Olde or New Testament do you ever find any instruction to worship or glorify sexuality....ever.. Beware...of this counterfit.

of which "counterfit" do you speak? the new testament? which version? the version of
what rabbi Joshua ben Joseph preached as related by those in the ministry? again which version?

Stalking wolfe,
Your kidding right??? I mean in your post.

There is no biblical documentation..evidence that Jesus had physical children..none...all reference to his having children are speculations by philosophers..and free thinkers..their speculations. All references to the Children of Jesus are spiritual children. Conversions. This is not new information.

Wrong again Stalking wolfe...about the sacred femminine. The bible is about the Holyness and Soverignty of God..not masculine and femminine. Masculine and femminine are from the occult/pagan principles which were so comon before the Christian era..and attempting to make a comeback today. This can be cleared up if one ever is able to acquire any real occult books ..not the stuff of barnes and noble or amazon .com. They are nothing but variations of the sex principle..some subtle some open.

Also..stalking wolfe..dont quote me Rabbi Joshua ben Joseph without clarifying for me if he is a talmudic orthadox rabbi...or a korait jew...
I know the difference.
Nevertheless the prohibitions for not doing as the nations around the children of Israel were in force in the olde testament ..and also for the
Children of God in the New testament ..no instructions to glorify sexuality as did the nations which surrounded them. ..none ..ever..
You dont debate this point but go on to the tangent of which version. Nice move..but very common...debate the point about glorifying sexuality ...Stalking Wolfe...not the versions...I can debate the versions too.but it is unprofitable and takes away from the central point ..which is..
" no where ..olde or new testaments are there any instructions to carry on as the nations surrounding them did....None!!"

Thanks,
Orangetom