Elite coverup. Atlantis found long time ago

I reckon the ruins of Atlantis are under the ice sheets of Antartica... Thats why we havent found any traces yet...

Also Atlantis could be anywhere and Plato could have heard the story from survivors who fled the destruction...

Or if your a sci-fi fan... Atlantis is actually a city in a Galaxy far far away...

If your going to have a closed mind, then dont bother reading or replying in this thread. I mean, if you have an idea... open a thread and post it and then support it. If you have information, then add it, but if all of you is kkk and lizards then I think that goes in another forum. Havnt really gotten a handle on this place yet so I may be wrong.


Scientists discovered that the land masses were once joined. The theory for separation is Plate techtonics. If you need proof of that, then I cant help you with 'How?" You will just have to play catch up

The reason that this can never be admitted is because those in charge will lose control and power. Why will they lose power? Becuase this lines up with the bible, and if the bible is proven true, then what? Think about it. Pretend it happens today at noon on CNN. Everything just starts falling into place and the bible is proven true. Every nation on earth falls into line with the christian religion...even Israel.
Every other one would be outlawed. People would have to be responsible to the 10 commandments. The system as we know it would be over.

alright...back to this world

Scientists know that the continents are drifting faster then you are told. The recent earthquakes are making it harder to hide.
The earth shifted slightly from the huge quake in the Indian ocean. Now picture a world wide quake.


Job 12:15 Behold, he withholdeth the waters, and they dry up: also he sendeth them out, and they overturn the earth.

Isa 24:1 Behold, the LORD maketh the earth empty, and maketh it waste, and turneth it upside down, and scattereth abroad the inhabitants thereof.
Makes it empty in the flood, then after the flood he turns it upside down and scatters man. Pole shift. Why?

Lets look at another verse and ask, which way was north after the flood?

Gen 11:2 And it came to pass, as they journeyed from the east, that they found a plain in the land of Shinar; and they dwelt there.

They were heading west. Look where arrarat is in Turkey and tell me which way west is, and which way Mosoul is. Mosoul is south. So is the bible wrong? Or is it saying there was a pole shift at the Tower of Babel event when mankind was scattered and then the earth was divided by water?

If you pivot the globe so NA goes north and Russia goes south, you will have the previous setting of the globe. So what caused globe to move like that? Look at a topo map of the atlantic floor. Look at the mid-atlantic ridge. Now look at the continental shelf of the americas and Euro-Africa. If you slide the shelf to the ridge, you will have a tiny atlantic ocean that is only as wide as the ridge. This small 'ocean' was actually the place where the land mass split apart. The fountains of the deep burst open here and the missing 'earth' material is scattered over the continents. That is why the continents have more sediment then the oceans. The reverse should be the case after billions of years ehh? Its not.

Ok... So lets say that the key to get all this to happen is a near miss in space. Doesnt matter to me what was used to cause it because I believe the bible. So we have NA and EU joined and the earth is rotated so NA is at the pole. This is our ice age. This is when the ice "came down" to the great lakes.
THIS IS ALSO when the mammoth elephants were grazing in warm climates.
ok, now the comet enters the solar system and does a near miss.
Job says the waters went away, and then overturned the earth. Chinese legend says that one time the sun stayed for 10 days and the forests caught on fire , but then a huge wave came and over ran all the low valleys. American indian legend says that they had a really cold winter and the people stayed in caves. The sun went away. Then they saw the tops of the mountains in the west and the sun was shining off the peaks...but it wasnt mountains, it was the ocean touching the sky.
Mayans say there was a time when the sun didnt come up for days. Then it looked like it would come up in the west, then north, south, east, west.....
Egyptian legends say that in the beginning (which could mean the time of babel) there was the chaos. The chaos was called Nu (the chaos of noah?). Then came the sun(god) and moon(god).

Ok so the gravitational pull starts NA drifting away and the same with Eurasia. Now when the greater weight of the land masses get far enough apart to unbalance the earths rotation, we have a tip.
Scientists have evidence of some kind of shift
The bible does too.
The sungod religon is the same even down to most details, all around the world. The Phoenecians, it appears, once made it to SA in their boats that do not appear worthy enough to do that with great success.

So pre-flood or post flood, it could fit. It could be a mix of the two.

We are told, without any proof, that mankind could not survive such events.
That sounds like a mind that is made up before hand.
What would you see during that time?
What kind of events?
Look at these

Job 14:11 As the waters fail from the sea, And the river wasteth and drieth up;

Job 14:18 "But the mountain falls and crumbles away, and the rock is removed from its place;
Job 14:19 the waters wear away the stones; the torrents wash away the soil of the earth; so you destroy the hope of man.

That isnt just 'every day erosion'. That is watching something massive happening. "destroy the hope of man". Its one thing to be in rough times, its another to have no hope

Job 9:5 he who removes mountains, and they know it not, when he overturns them in his anger,
Job 9:6 who shakes the earth out of its place, and its pillars tremble;

Watching mountains over turn. Job may have been watching the formation of the rift valley that stretches from Turkey to South Africa.

Job 12:24 He taketh away understanding from the chiefs of the people of the earth, And causeth them to wander in a wilderness where there is no way.
Job 12:25 They grope in the dark without light; And he maketh them to stagger like a drunken man.

Now it was at babel that the bible says the languages were made and man was scattered (the days of Peleg which means earthquake). Job was alive at THAT time and saw all

Looking for a time when most of Europe was under snow, and snow fed rivers that no longer exist in the mideast?
Job 24:19 Drought and heat snatch away the snow waters; so does Sheol those who have sinned.

People were use to that snow. They made plans around it. They counted on its water!
Job 6:15 My brothers are treacherous as a torrent-bed, as torrential streams that pass away,
Job 6:16 which are dark with ice, and where the snow hides itself.
Job 6:17 When they melt, they disappear; when it is hot, they vanish from their place.
Job 6:18 The caravans turn aside from their course; they go up into the waste and perish.

Caravans perished because it went away. Why would they perish? Because it was the same mideast we know today but with snow, and greener?

Job 38:30 The waters hide themselves and become like stone, And the face of the deep is frozen.
The deep is the Mediteranian. Frozen over.

Job 9:30 If I wash myself with snow water, And make my hands never so clean;

The world was very different.

So why do I think it was something in space that caused the split and all the changes?

Job 1:16 While he was yet speaking, there came also another, and said, The fire of God is fallen from heaven, and hath burned up the sheep and the servants, and consumed them; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee.

Fragments

Ok, so Ice is the norm in Europe and the Med is frozen over. Then comes the comet and all the catastrophy.

Job 28:10 He cutteth out channels among the rocks; And his eye seeth every precious thing.
Rift valley?

Job 28:5 As for the earth, out of it cometh bread; And underneath it is turned up as it were by fire.
Same valley

Job 41:31 He maketh the deep to boil like a pot: He maketh the sea like a pot of ointment.
The Med is now boiling and thick with mud like ointment.
Non-thinkers like to say we couldnt survive this stuff, but this guy saw it and wrote about it.
If you can survive being a single cell germ and grow into your advanced apeman form...then you can survive this.

It is during this time that people took to living in caves.

Job 30:4 Who cut up mallows by the bushes, and juniper roots for their meat.
Job 30:5 They were driven forth from among men, (they cried after them as after a thief
Job 30:6 To dwell in the clifts of the valleys, in caves of the earth, and in the rocks.
Job 30:7 Among the bushes they brayed; under the nettles they were gathered together.
Job 30:8 They were children of fools, yea, children of base men: they were viler than the earth.


So, it was during the babel - peleg event that the continents separated and the sun did not shine,

Job 9:6 That shaketh the earth out of its place, And the pillars thereof tremble;
Job 9:7 That commandeth the sun, and it riseth not, And sealeth up the stars;


People not only survived it all, they eventually made a website called Abovetopsecret.com and started talking about it with open minds. Except for a few. The few refused to believe because of their pride. Pride is the very thing that caused it all

Jake, while your post is very good and show you enlightened knowleage of the bible scriptures.

This this thread is about a conspiracy about Atlantis, I don't think the bible mentions Atlantis, and the bible account of the flood is its adopted one in th Hebrew myth.

Thanks anyway for such impresive post of bible quotes, and as usual personal intertepretation of what you read in the bible.

By the way, you signature also should said that you don't understand most post and thread of "conspiracies of historical myths." like Atlantis and the biblical version of the deluge occurs Babel is not even in question here.

Marg.

It was hard to understand what you said, but I did get
"atlantis is not mentioned in the bible".

Ya know what else is not mentioned? Iran. Iraq.
They are modern words that are linked up with the ancient ones.
I am linking pangea theory and atlantis for you.

Please do me one favor marge...

Please do not overwhelm me with your technical analysis like that again. The way you examined all the information in my post makes me thing that you wrote it all yourself.
Please try not to contribute so much in one post. You will leave nothing for anyone else to do.

Thanks

Perhaps Jake if you step away from the bible from time to time you will learn that is a whole big world around you and more historical facts to make your life a littler bit more exiting.

And........... if you can not understand my meaning perhaps don't blame it on me but on your blindness to what goes on around you beside the bible.

Quoting the Bible in a cut and paste manner doesn't make you look any better either.

I can do that too, but I prefer to research.

See when the scribes were compiling their "historical accounts in the bible" for the Christian religion to thrive it was a whole new world with civilizations that had not clue of what they were doing in the other side of the world.

That is history and historical facts.

Occurs if is not in the bible is not real right Jake?

It is not that you don't understand me is just that you "don't want to understand me at all"

By all means keep quoting from the bible after all we are in ancient lost civilizations itsn't what the bible is all about?

Ancient and lost.

Let me correct myself, no the bible but the people that compiled the bible they are a civilization of ancient and lost people.

That sounds better.

[edit on 29-4-2005 by marg6043]

I was hoping this wouldnt turn into a bible bash just because I quoted the bible.

For everyone else, ..

What I want you to see is the words.
Job is the oldest text of the bible. If you know the bible, you know that there were no christians when Job was written. Now if I presented a website with this stuff on it but instead of the bible , I said it came from a people who believed they were decendants of UFO's, certain of you would be all over this eating it up.

If it helps, the pretend that is the case.

Now the ufo people wrote down stuff they saw. They describe mountains being turned over. The sea boiling. The sea frozen over. Why would they make that up?

Explain what they saw.

First of all this is a thread of atlantis and not of how much you know the bible.

Originally posted by jake1997
THERE IS evidence that the east and west were once joined in mid atlantic.
The people SAW the land move apart. To them it looked like it was sinking.

From what i gathered your interpretation of pangea is that it is not just the continents before separation, it is the continents where they are today but with huge land masses that "sunk" into the ocean in front of the eyes of the people that inhabited the earth at the time, which was only five or six thousand years ago? Then how do you explain the topography of the continents that show infact that they could be peiced together like a puzzle showing us exactly where they were "MILLIONS" of years ago?

Originally posted by jake1997
The best way to hide the truth is in plain site. Thats why we have a so called 'billion' year old pangea that was really only 5 or 6 k years old.

So what you're saying here is that all the geologists, zoologists, and
dendroclimatologists are all wrong when they can logically explain to us that the earth is billions of years old? Or are they all in on this elaborate coverup thats so complex it boils al the way down to the USGS just to coverup the existance of Atlantis???

[edit on 29-4-2005 by rick_y_2]

Originally posted by jake1997
If your going to have a closed mind, then dont bother reading or replying in this thread.

That works both ways. Peole who are close minded and think that atlantis has to exist are just as close minded as people who insist, without evidence, that it can't.

You have presented no evidence, of any sort, that these fantastical things even can hapen, let alone actually did.

The theory for separation is Plate techtonics. If you need proof of that, then I cant help you

You could very easily refer them to a site that explains plate tectonics. Apparently, you don't understand plate tectonics, because you have used it in a manner that is contradcitory to the theory and science around it. Here is a page to get started with it. Here is a page about Alfred Wegener, who figured it out. His ideas, however, were reasonably rejected, because he had no explanatory mechanism for it. Notice, even tho his theory was 'good', it was rejected on scientific grounds. And he at least presented evidence to support it. You have not presented any evidence. Wegener's theory wasn't really accepted until there was more solid evidence for it and its driving mechanisms, back in the '70s.

Why will they lose power? Becuase this lines up with the bible, and if the bible is proven true, then what? Think about it.

Ok.....Ok that doesn't make sense. How does the existence of atlantis prove tthat the bible is 'true'? What do you even mean by 'the bible is true', that christ is saviour, that baptism is required, that isreal is the promised land or that either one of the two creation stories are literally true??

sts know that the continents are drifting faster then you are told. The recent earthquakes are making it harder to hide.

Stop repeating yourself and present something to back these statements up.

The earth shifted slightly from the huge quake in the Indian ocean.

The land moves everytime there is an earthquake, thats what an earthquake is. It doesn't have anything to do with the general speed of the plates. Again, refer to the above link on plate tectonics.

Now picture a world wide quake.

That doesn't make any sense.

Makes it empty in the flood, then after the flood he turns it upside down and scatters man. Pole shift. Why?

Er, thats not a pole shift. A pole shift is where the magnetic properties of the poles reverse, it doesn't mean that the whole world gets turned upside down. And, again, there is no global flood, so whats that got to do with it? YOu are interpretintg the bible, you are inserting a 'pole shift'.

. So is the bible wrong? Or is it saying there was a pole shift at the Tower of Babel event when mankind was scattered and then the earth was divided by water?

If those are the two options, then the bible is wrong. More probably, you are wrong.

If you pivot the globe so NA goes north and Russia goes south, you will have the previous setting of the globe.

You can't just start throwing the crust of the earth willy nilly to get any arrangement that you'd prefer to have.

So what caused globe to move like that?p

Quite simply, it didn't move like that.

The fountains of the deep burst open here and the missing 'earth' material is scattered over the continents.

Thats rather absurd. Do you have any evidence to back it up??

That is why the continents have more sediment then the oceans. The reverse should be the case after billions of years ehh? Its not.

Why should that be true?? The oceans have shifted greatly over time, the vast majority of the sediments on the contintents are infact ocean sediments.

Ok... So lets say that the key to get all this to happen is a near miss in space. Doesnt matter to me what was used to cause it because I believe the bible.

Ok, so your entire position is simply a matter of faith. You beleive in the bible, and anything that supports it must be true, ipso facto, as they say.

Thats pretty meaningless.

Ok so the gravitational pull starts NA drifting away and the same with Eurasia.

You are suggesting that a 'near miss' from a super dense object literally pulled the crust of the eart and warped it around, in all sorts of directions, and yet the seasons weren't affected, that by having NA move to the 'pole' it started snowing and iceing over, for no particular reason, fast enough to 'snap freeze' things like mammoth in the middle of their meals? And that there weren't any earthquakes or any intertial effects on the humans living at the time??? This doesn't make sense. Then again, that shouldn't be a surpirse, since, literally, you are not trying to make sense, you are trying come up with fantastic events that make the bible literally true.

Scientists have evidence of some kind of shift

No, they do not

The bible does too.

The fact that you think that the bible has 'evidence' of anything re-iterates the fundamental problem here. THE bible is a holy text, its beleived without evidence and is not evidence of anything in and of itself.

The sungod religon is the same even down to most details, all around the world.

This is simply not true.

The Phoenecians, it appears, once made it to SA in their boats that do not appear worthy enough to do that with great success.

The Phoenecians did not sail to south america. There is no evidence for this, or at best very weak evidence for it.

So pre-flood or post flood,

Again, there was no global flood

it could fit. It could be a mix of the two.

Of course 'it' could fit. Anything can fit. You have stated that the bible is true, and anything that can be interpreted as supporting it is good enough, no matter how contradictory, and no matter how unsupported, or even refuted, by the actual evidence that it is.

We are told, without any proof, that mankind could not survive such events.

Do you really need 'proof' to demonstrated that man' can't survive having entire continents explode apart underneath them and get mish mashed all across the globe by supergravitational forces????

That sounds like a mind that is made up before hand.

That is your modus operandi here.

Look at these

These are things from the bible. They are useless for the discussion. There is no evidence for these things occuring. You are simply reading them as being supportive of, well, the bible.

Job 14:18 "But the mountain falls and crumbles away, and the rock is removed from its place;
Job 14:19 the waters wear away the stones; the torrents wash away the soil of the earth; so you destroy the hope of man.

And yet people get along just fine. Mountains are blasted away, continents literally explode, then crust of the earth detaches from the planet and starts spinning in all sorts of direction, but man just sits back on his porch, sipping lemonade and commenting on it???

That isnt just 'every day erosion'. That is watching something massive happening.

Its a bible story. As such, its not evidence, and can be interpreted any number of ways and support any position, since they are faith based positions.

Watching mountains over turn. Job may have been watching the formation of the rift valley that stretches from Turkey to South Africa.

That'd be some trick, watching somethin that big occur, and not having any ill effects neither. Fact is, the evidence for the rifting of africa supports it as having begon long before man existed and did not occur suddenly, or even observably. Infact, its going on right now at more or less the same rate.

Now it was at babel that the bible says the languages were made and man was scattered

This doesn't make sense either. How is it that there are inter-related linguistic families if they were all just 'made up' at babel???

Caravans perished because it went away. Why would they perish? Because it was the same mideast we know today but with snow, and greener?

Thats the most likely reason for caravans being destroyed??? Seems the least likely.

The deep is the Mediteranian.

Says who?

Frozen over.

There is no evidencethat the med ever froze solid. It almost certainly cannot.

Job 28:10 He cutteth out channels among the rocks; And his eye seeth every precious thing.
Rift valley?

River channels? Small earthquakes? Gorges? Anything?
You can make it anything. Could mean rifts, could mean anything.

The Med is now boiling and thick with mud like ointment.

The med was frozen solid, then melts and boils, but this doesn't affact people? Preposterous.

Non-thinkers like to say we couldnt survive this stuff, but this guy saw it and wrote about it.

He didn't see any of this, and he didn't write any of this. How can you refer to people who understand that a person can't survive a heat influx thats enough to boil the med as 'non-thinkers'???

If you can survive being a single cell germ and grow into your advanced apeman form...then you can survive this.

Do you even know what evolution is? Why in the world would evolution be something people can't survive?

So, it was during the babel - peleg event that the continents separated and the sun did not shine,

What? How does that happen?

That shaketh the earth out of its place, And the pillars thereof tremble;
Job 9:7 That commandeth the sun, and it riseth not, And sealeth up the stars;

The earth revolves around the sun, earth doesn't have a 'place' it can be shaken from, it doesn't have pillars, and you can't tell the sun not to rise because, the sun does not rise, it stays in the same place, and you can't seal up the stars, because 'the stars' aren't just some little things that are 'out there' all in the same place. Most of the universe is 'the stars', not earth. Earth being sealed up would make more sense (but still be non-sense).

for a few. The few refused to believe because of their pride.

You have still not presented any evidence nor addressed the issues. YOu are most certianly not discussing this thing objectively, you are, literally, being entirely subjective and insisting that the bible is right, and that these things had to happen in order for it to be right. What in fact you are doing is interpreting the bible in your own way, and making up stories to explain things.

Originally posted by jake1997Why would they make that up?

Why does anyone make anything up? These people certianly didn't see the seas boil over and mountains explode before their very eyes. Look at the evidence, then make observations and theories about it, don't look at the bible, and then contort everything simply to make your interpretation literally true.

And, just to be clear, simply because someone disagrees with you does not mean that they are 'bashing' the bible. And don't think that this is /your' thread. This is a discussion group. You started a thread about atlantis, and are using the bible and some interpretative pseduo-science to support the existence of atlantis. You brought the bible into it, so a consideration of it is 'fair game'. To bring it up, and then call anyone who disagrees with your parochial interpretation 'bible bashers' and such, is more absurdity.

Nygdan that was a very powerful post.

I will have to add that when the ancient people used to see catastrophe they would credited to angry Gods because they didn't know any better.

When a volcano erupted or and earthquake or tsunami devastated their homes it was a God retaliation to blame for that.

As we become more knowledgeable of our surrounding and understanding of our environment we do not blame a "God" or "Gods" anymore, but thanks to technology we can find the reason of the natural disaster.

Still we have some that will bring God and his anger against man to scare people that are not such knowledgeable about earth cycles and power.

The tsunami in Indonesia may have seen as a mighty flood if it was something that happen 3000 years ago.

Is just that in this modern days we can not blame the Gods or God anymore like the ancients used to do because they could not understand what was going on around them.

Perhaps one day Atlantis will surface but until then its going to remain a wonderful myth.




[edit on 29-4-2005 by marg6043]

He didn't see any of this, and he didn't write any of this. How can you refer to people who understand that a person can't survive a heat influx thats enough to boil the med as 'non-thinkers'???

Thats pretty good.
Tell me your mind is not closed.

Now you might think that I am supposed to respond to all of your "one liners", but in each one you show that your mind is closed.
FOr the plate tectonics, the point is, the crust moves, and the land masses were all connected as one, at one point.
(wow, just like in the bible.)

That guy witness that, ....and didnt write it, (like you said), .....so we never saw it, and therefore never had this conversation, so there is nothing left to explain. I didnt think I would convince anyone today, but at least you have some of the clues now. As you learn more, you might be able to put it all together. Time is short tho...so dont take too long.

I have to hand one thing to ya, you are a genius when it comes to solving an impass.

One last thing..

On the pole shift thing..

If its not called pole shift, what is it called?

Originally posted by jake1997
One last thing..

On the pole shift thing..

If its not called pole shift, what is it called?

A pole shift refers to the 'flipping' of the Earth's magnetic field. Rocks record the direction when they are formed and we can look at those rocks and see for example where North was at the time of that rocks formation. We see in the geologic record many such pole shifts and some think the current magnetic field, which is weaking I think, could in fact be 'gearing up' for another one of these shifts.

In other words throughout geologic time a compass didnt always point north, i'm not sure if they know the mechanism for this, but it could be a repeating cycle not necessarily, but possibly, due to some catastrphic event.

Yes, I understand that. (I dont see the big deal to the earth if it only affects the compass though)

But if the earth actaully flipped on its axis 90 - 180 degrees, ...

that is what the bible and the other anceint texts are showing.
Is there a name for that (besides lunacy?)

so...how would that prove god is real? wow thats weird. i seriously had no idea that god had anything to do with all that. good to know, good to know.

picture a world where geologic history has just been 'rediscovered'.

A new breakthrough in testing reveals young rocks, and a pangea that was here 6000 years ago...Noahs ark discovered and verified....
Just picture science coming out with a dozen things every day that confirm the bible even more.
In Egype a library is dug up out of the desert that records the plagues, moses, the jews....the death of pharoahs army in the red sea...

Scientists conclude that God is real...though they can never prove it with direct evidence...only the effects..

The ACLU tries to ban science from the US..
Supreme court anounces that founding fathers have clause that enforces seperation of science and state if science believes in God

ok..joking aside...

If people KNEW that God was real...then how much would this gay marriage thing be affectiing us today?
The world would be a religion. Everyone under one religion.
No more wars over religion.

Think about all the crap on TV. How much would be on there?
Abortion? I dont think so. Except for the die hard God haters, people wouldnt allow that stuff.

Govt agenda? Not so fast. The Govt would have less power because the lawyers wouldnt be allowed to rewrite the bible.

So do govts have a reason to not want the truth, if it is different then the status quo? You bet.

Picture a world if you will.

Picture a world where this thread is about atlantis, and not the bible.

Picture a world where atlantis has never been discovered and that there is no evidence for a global flood.

I am interested in that site found off of Cyprus however.

news.bbc.co.uk...

If they do a dig down there I wonder if they'll find any artifacts.

It would be nice to have a perfectly normal atlantis that fits into history.

Hopefully it would put to rest all the crazy stories, like atlantis was responsible for pyramids in both South America and Egypt.

nahh.

I think the final clues will be found in the ruins of South America and or Central America.
That giant carved face of a Tyrian King in Brazil....with the Phoenecian writing on it...was it ever verified/confirmed?
What about the petrified harbor there that was constructed in the same manner as phoenecian harbors??

Good find Jake.

I had never heard of that before, and the evidence I can find seems to favor it.

For more information heres a good site laying out a lot of evidence.

phoenicia.org...

Phoenicians in Brazil

Brazil is full of vestiges that corroborate the Phoenician presence in its lands and everything indicates that they concentrated their occupation in the northeastern region. A little away from the Longá and Parnaiba rivers' confluence, in Piaui state, there is a lake where Phoenician shipyards and a harbour with a place reserved to tie the "Carpássios" (old long traveling ships) were discovered.


In Rio Grande do Norte state, after roaming a 11 km canal, the Phoenician boats used to anchor in the Extremoz lake. The Austrian professor Mr. Ludwig Schwennhagen studied the place's subterranean parts and the embankments carefully and also some others that exist near the village of Touro where the Phoenician navigators anchored after roaming about 10 km of a canal. The same professor Schwennhagen tells us that he found Phoenician inscriptions in the Amazon in which there were references to many kings of Sidon and Tyre (887 to 856 BC).

Schwennhagen believes that the Phoenicians used Brazil as a base during 800 years at least, leaving here, besides material evidences, an important linguistic influence among the natives.

Apparently a mummie from Egypt was found with traces of coc aine and tobacco. If this is true then it is definitive proof of some kind of contact in ancient times.

www.askwhy.co.uk...

In Munich, in 1992, researchers began a project to investigate Egyptian mummies. Toxicologist, Dr Svelta Balabanova, joined the team to test for drugs, having gained a respect in her field for pioneering new methods for detecting drugs in hair and sweat.

Dr Balabanova ran samples from the mummies through a system which uses antibodies to detect the presence of drugs. The samples were also put through mass spectroscopy which can accurately identify substances by determining their molecular weight. The results seemed to be wrong! Nicotine and coc aine were present and Balabanova was sure it was a mistake.

She ran the tests again and sent fresh samples to three other labs. The results were confirmed—he drugs were there. So she went ahead and published a paper. No one believed her. Before Columbus these plants had not been found anywhere in the world outside of the Americas. Now they had been found in the 3000 year old 21st dynasty mummy of Henut Taui—the Lady of the Two lands.

Finally the only site I could find with something bad to say, and I don't think they make too convincing of an argument.

www.texancultures.utsa.edu...

Variously written, Phoenician inscriptions are found most places they went. Old World inscriptions create no other trouble than occasional difficulty in transcription. Similar inscriptions in the New World usually give rise to one word: fake. A long inscription was found in Brazil a century ago, which, when allegedly translated, told the story of a voyage from the Red Sea to the Brazilian coast in the tenth century B.C.E. (13) Most scholars were not slow to label the original as fake and the translation a hoax. These authorities generally believe that sailors, before Columbus, were self-confined to sailing along coastlines. A few interpreters saw the story as a logical extension of the accepted Phoenician voyages.

Overall a very interesting subject, it is unfortunate that so much was destroyed when the new world was conquered by europe. It would be nice to have some new finds that would decide the issue one way or the other.

I cant believe we agreed on something.

The 'fake' can be assumed in the face of the engraving, but the carving itself? AND the harbor?

The reasoning for their opinion is because of the ships of the day. They do not see them as capable. The notes of the Piri Res (sp?) Map suggest that it is at least posslbe to go one way, if not return.

If the sea levels were lower... enough so that the hudson river canyon is at least partially above water, and that new discovery in India just off the west coast was above water... would the ships of the day be able to navigate coastlands to get there?
And would they even be able to sail directly across since the ocean would be smaller?

If the damned rcc hadnt destroyed all the stuff they could get their hands on!! (thats another part of that big conspriacy I see in this world)

They couldnt have gotten it all. There has to be something left