Professor William Beeman: "Americans have had a monolithic image of Iran for the last 25 years"

This is also a nice picture of todays Iran :

woman to be stoned to the dead

Wow where have I not seen THIS thread before? The typical fight that goes on between the pro-US and the anti-US (and somewhere a few posts even managed to cover body odor...).

Siroos, firstly, I must say that was one hell of a well documented and presented first post. I honestly had no prior opinion on Iran's development as a nation, but it appears that at least the major metropolis of Iran are extremely wealthy and enjoy a high standard of living, and for that I congratulate the Iranian people.

As someone who generally supports President Bush in the area of Foreign policy, and as someone who lives in south Asia, I wish to disagree with your repeated vitriolic diatribes at the United States. No, we do not think we are God's chosen people, why do you keep repeatedly asking? Is it true that some of us Americans are arrogant and reckless? Of course, but no more so than many people in the rest of the world. So by continually implying that we think we are somehow superior to the rest of the world, you insult me and my fellow citizens.

Do we deserve this? If you think we do, I don't blame you at all. Our policy makers and us as a people obviously recognize that we have great power, and therefore we have interests in the world. EVERY NATION IN HISTORY has acted to defend it's interests, and I would appreciate it if you stopped making it sound like everything the US has ever said about Iran was to stop it from becoming developed or to support our 'zionist masters' or whatever it is that controls my country.

The US would like nothing more than a democratic, prosperous Iran. That's what we kinda expended over a thousand lives for in Iraq. This time, we're taking democracy and prosperity seriously, because now is a time when it is in our interests to do so: tyranical governments and poverty are the root causes of the terrorism that killed so many American citizens over the past few decades, and therefore, our government has decided to tackle those causes. If Iran were a democracy with a strong economy, the US would be very fortunate indeed - God knows we'd love to not be so dependent on undemocratic Saudi Arabia for oil. Hopefully someday we will finish our work in Iraq and not look like complete hypocrites by relying so much on Saudi Arabia, but ours is a generally realistic government. Freedom is important to us, but first and foremost, we must be economically and militarily strong to stand up for it.

I know that harsh words have been said by Americans about Iran. But you as someone who has claimed in this thread to be 'too intelligent' for certain things are not above that either. Do not deny that you rarely have one good word for the people who 'sit on their lazy fat butts having orgasms watching Fox news' - that's something that you said in another post some time back. Well, NO American that I know actually does that. NO American I know actually revels in the fact that innocent muslim people die everyday because of our foreign policy. Just as very few muslims (or just people for that matter) revelled in 9/11. My point in all this is: stop generalizing, stop your hostility. As I said before, you started this post with a really good post, showing an obviously well researched person who knows how to put an argument accross. But the way you do it sometimes is really insulting, and if you're 'too intelligent' for anything, I would hope that it would be the kind of unnecessary vitriole you display again and again at Americans and Israel for that matter.

As for my country's foreign policy regarding Iran... As I said, we don't care if Iran becomes a strong, democratic regional power... in fact we would welcome it. And who knows, these things may come to pass. But our paramount interest lies in keeping our citizens safe. Given that Iran has supported terrorist groups in the past, given that it is currently ruled by religious fundementalists who still refer to america as The Great Satan, given that the threat of WMD falling into the hands of terrorists, accidentially-on-purpose due to state sponsorship is too high - given all that, yes the US is extremely concerned at Iran possessing nuclear weapons. All nations act to defend their interests. Accept that, for it is reality. And in the meantime, just let the harshness of your words cool off.

Originally posted by longbow
This is also a nice picture of todays Iran :

woman to be stoned to the dead

That's not today's Iran. Stoning has been abolished since three years back in Iran. That's what I'm saying - Iran has improved year by year, very rapidly, and is improving still. Stoning is actually not an Islamic puishment. There is not one single reference to stoning in the Holy Qoran. Stoning is a practice condoned in the Old Testament.


"In the Old Testament of the Bible, stoning is specifically prescribed as the method of execution for a whole range of crimes. However, in the New Testament, Jesus speaks in opposition to stoning, declaring that "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone"

www.absoluteastronomy.com...

However, this is ofcourse the interpretation of Christians today of what Jesus meant. Because obviously Jesus there is nothing that says that Jesus was referring to the form of execution of stoning. "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" can just as well mean that one should not blame or judge others when one self is a sinner. Some Christians have had a tendency to interpret the Bible in such ways to make it favorable to the intellectual level and mentality of modern times. That is why also there are so many different versions of Bibles. Although there is the same tendency amongst some Muslims to interpret the Holy Qoran in such ways as to favor their own thinking and values, there is only one version of the Holy Qoran -- Except ofcourse for the hundreds of thousands of false Qorans that were/are published in the U.S. in order to cause anti-Islamic sentiments around the world.

That's not today's Iran. Stoning has been abolished since three years back in Iran. That's what I'm saying - Iran has improved year by year, very rapidly, and is improving still. Stoning is actually not an Islamic puishment. There is not one single reference to stoning in the Holy Qoran. Stoning is a practice condoned in the Old Testament.

So basically all the US media is showing "old Iran?"

Siroos--thank you for the pictures. It's nice to see Iran doing so well in the middle of so much chaos. Chaos, I must say , caused by my country.

I believe you have every right to pursue whatever you want to pursue to make you a respected member of the world's community, including a nuclear weapons program. If you don't, you won't get the respect. Maybe once everyone of the developing nations has all the weapons it need, it will come to it's senses and get back to disarming and work towards peace.

As far as Iran never having anything to do with the United States, maybe the time will come when we will work harder, both of us, to mend those fences.

You add a lot to this web-site.

Originally posted by Archangel76
Wow where have I not seen THIS thread before? The typical fight that goes on between the pro-US and the anti-US (and somewhere a few posts even managed to cover body odor...).

Siroos, firstly, I must say that was one hell of a well documented and presented first post. I honestly had no prior opinion on Iran's development as a nation, but it appears that at least the major metropolis of Iran are extremely wealthy and enjoy a high standard of living, and for that I congratulate the Iranian people.

Thank you!

As someone who generally supports President Bush in the area of Foreign policy, and as someone who lives in south Asia, I wish to disagree with your repeated vitriolic diatribes at the United States.[/quotes]

Well, too bad that you support such a miserable president with the blood of more than 120,000 innocent Iraqis and 20,000+ Afghanis on his hands - Well, we all make mistakes. Hopefully one day you will regret that you ever supported him. There are many decent and good Americans - and you seem to me like you could be one of them - who voted for Bush and support him til this day. It's not that they aren necessarily lacking any intelligence as so many people outside of the U.S. keep accusing them of - I think it's more because they have been subject to American propaganda for so long, and they just can't believe that their government would be such a wrong-doer.


[quoten] No, we do not think we are God's chosen people, why do you keep repeatedly asking?

I just used that phrase once, so what's this about that I "keep repeatedly asking"? It was not about the U.S., but rather about the West as it was in response to someone who was from a Western country, and I didn't know which, and this person said that he thought that Iran should not be allowed to become an advanced and industrialised nation because it would then become a rival to the West. So I think I used the phrase where it belonged. So get your facts staright before spitting your venom at me!

Is it true that some of us Americans are arrogant and reckless? Of course, but no more so than many people in the rest of the world.

Well, that's your opinion, and although I agree that most Americans are nice, good and very decent people, there is a large percentage of Americans who are arrogant and reckless as you put it. Perhaps 30%? That would mean that 70% are nice and good, and 30% are not. While 30% is a minority, it is enough to make its presence felt in a society.

So by continually implying that we think we are somehow superior to the rest of the world, you insult me and my fellow citizens.

You keep saying "continually" and "repeatedly", and it's just not true - I have so far not reapeatedly or continually said any of the stuff you accuse me of having said. I have a few times responded to some people who have been quite crude and stated for instance that Iran should be nuked or that Iran has no chance against the U.S., or that Iran has to be forced to do this or that - and may have reminded them that the U.S. is not equal to the Almighty God. It seems to me though that you think that your fellow citizens can insult the rest of the world, and if the rest of the world dares to even CRITISIZE your country, you take it as an insult. Well, you know what? Too bad. I'm not going to cease to critisize things about the U.S. that I don't like just because you and some of your fellow citizens feel insulted. Perhaps you and your fellow citizens should get used to some criticism. I have always thought that the U.S. was not self-critical enough or at all. Any society which is in self-denial and which not self-critical is doomed to fail. Most of the other countries that I have lived in or travelled to have been self-critical. The only country where I have seen a widespread lack of self-criticism is the U.S.

Do we deserve this? If you think we do, I don't blame you at all. Our policy makers and us as a people obviously recognize that we have great power, and therefore we have interests in the world. EVERY NATION IN HISTORY has acted to defend it's interests,

Defending one's interests is only justified when those interests are legitimate. When they are morally corrupt and wrong, you deserve resistance.

and I would appreciate it if you stopped making it sound like everything the US has ever said about Iran was to stop it from becoming developed or to support our 'zionist masters' or whatever it is that controls my country.

I'm sorry - but I can't do favors when it comes to my convictions and beliefs. I mean I can't give up my convictions and beliefs just to make you feel good about yourself and your government. Does that make sense to you?

The US would like nothing more than a democratic, prosperous Iran.

Yeah right! That's why it keeps interfering in our internal affairs every time things are going well for us. 1953.....the CIA coup..... 1978-79..... the Shah's fall...... and now.....

That's what we kinda expended over a thousand lives for in Iraq. This time, we're taking democracy and prosperity seriously, because now is a time when it is in our interests to do so: tyranical governments and poverty are the root causes of the terrorism that killed so many American citizens over the past few decades, and therefore, our government has decided to tackle those causes.

I'm amazed that you believe such nonsense! You sound like you have just left the spring Bush-brainwashing camp..... Sorry, I know you feel insulted again..... can't help it though. What about the tyranical governments you have supported so far? Including Saddam Hussein, Pakistan and the Saudis, and many more? You will see what will happen with your "democracy" in Iraq. Prosperity for who? For the elite in the U.S. to whom you have sold your soul to?

If Iran were a democracy with a strong economy, the US would be very fortunate indeed - God knows we'd love to not be so dependent on undemocratic Saudi Arabia for oil.

Well, why don't you bring democracy to Saudi Arabia like you did with Iraq? That could perhaps solve the problem for you.

Originally posted by Dances With Angels

That's not today's Iran. Stoning has been abolished since three years back in Iran. That's what I'm saying - Iran has improved year by year, very rapidly, and is improving still. Stoning is actually not an Islamic puishment. There is not one single reference to stoning in the Holy Qoran. Stoning is a practice condoned in the Old Testament.

So basically all the US media is showing "old Iran?"

I keep telling you that your media is at the very least biased. What I'm saying is something that can be verified by Amnesty International and other similar organs.

Originally posted by kazi
Siroos--thank you for the pictures. It's nice to see Iran doing so well in the middle of so much chaos. Chaos, I must say , caused by my country.

I believe you have every right to pursue whatever you want to pursue to make you a respected member of the world's community, including a nuclear weapons program. If you don't, you won't get the respect. Maybe once everyone of the developing nations has all the weapons it need, it will come to it's senses and get back to disarming and work towards peace.

As far as Iran never having anything to do with the United States, maybe the time will come when we will work harder, both of us, to mend those fences.

You add a lot to this web-site.

Thank you Kazi. Yes, I am hopeful of a time when the U.S. will have a peaceful government with good intentions towards both other countries and its own hard working people, and when Iran will have a government which will fully respect human rights. It may be a while, but it will come eventually.

Siros is Iran a democracy?

Yes it is a Democracy, people vote for the leader.

wow i didnt know that. when is the next election, do you know?

I believe it is some time this year, although Siroos may know better.