Professor William Beeman: "Americans have had a monolithic image of Iran for the last 25 years"

Originally posted by Siroos



Environmentalists protesting against air pollution in Tehran



Tehran is extremely clean and also very green

Bit of a contradiction there, eh? Looks like you're tripping over youself trying to promote Iran as modern and liberal. I'm sure it has plenty going for it as a nation but Iran is not perfect. There is oppression, there is poverty, there is pollution. And pictures of buildings which have not been built yet do not prove otherwise.

Iran is changing we seen how the young Iranians wants change and the Mullahs can't do anything about it, they try to denie they their rights but now they have to let them do what they want to do as independents, and not allow the Koran or ideology tells them how to do with their lives living comfortably. we all saw the protests for reforms back in 1999 and now the Mullahs realize force aint the answer they have to adapt the young Iranians needs and wants and not try to supress it.

i agree with both sides on this one. i think Iran needs to honor the treaty they signed, at least i coulda swore i heard they signed it, maybe i'm wrong (non-proliferation treaty). therefore, they have vowed not to build nuclear weapons. nuclear power is one thing, but to have enrichment facilities to create the sort of uranium necessary for weapons is defying the treaty. this they need to explain.

i also agree that a self-sufficient Iran is a threat to the west, and partly because it will prove that a mixture of an Islamic government and a democracy can be done. but also because it will begin to produce and export more and more items to the rest of the world and be more of a competing business with the west's businesses.

i have seen the photos before and i have to question- where are the slums? there was one photo of "the projects" but i mean real slums. where are the homeless? the poor? the handicapped?

one other thing- Iran needs to come clean on it's funding and support of terrorists around the world.

oh, and- didn't Iran kidnap and keep British or American reporters for something like almost 5 years?

Originally posted by fledgling666
i agree with both sides on this one. i think Iran needs to honor the treaty they signed, at least i coulda swore i heard they signed it, maybe i'm wrong (non-proliferation treaty). therefore, they have vowed not to build nuclear weapons. nuclear power is one thing, but to have enrichment facilities to create the sort of uranium necessary for weapons is defying the treaty. this they need to explain.

i also agree that a self-sufficient Iran is a threat to the west, and partly because it will prove that a mixture of an Islamic government and a democracy can be done. but also because it will begin to produce and export more and more items to the rest of the world and be more of a competing business with the west's businesses.

i have seen the photos before and i have to question- where are the slums? there was one photo of "the projects" but i mean real slums. where are the homeless? the poor? the handicapped?

one other thing- Iran needs to come clean on it's funding and support of terrorists around the world.

oh, and- didn't Iran kidnap and keep British or American reporters for something like almost 5 years?

it was an Iranian Canadian reporter who was tortured to death.

Originally posted by GlobalDisorder
They are some excellent photo's. I had NO IDEA Iran was that far in terms of a society.

Thankyou for posting. In my backpackign trips to europe, I am now looking for ways to get to Tehran for a visit.

Most people have an EXTREMELY twisted image of Iran and Iranians - That's why foreigners are very pleasantly surprised, if not shocked upon their arrival in Iran. I got most of these pictures from this guy's website - There are two links:

IRAN, Palaces, Mosques, Parks, Crown Jewels, Splendid and diverse nature, etc...

Tehran, Iran's modern mega capital city of some 15 million inhabitants, imbedded between snow-covered alp-like mountains...

Enjoy!

Originally posted by CiderGood_HeadacheBad

Originally posted by Siroos



Environmentalists protesting against air pollution in Tehran



Tehran is extremely clean and also very green

Bit of a contradiction there, eh? Looks like you're tripping over youself trying to promote Iran as modern and liberal. I'm sure it has plenty going for it as a nation but Iran is not perfect. There is oppression, there is poverty, there is pollution. And pictures of buildings which have not been built yet do not prove otherwise.

I think you're the one tripping over yourself! These protestors were permitted by the government to demonstrate - That shows that Iran's regime is a WHOLE LOT more tolerant than the U.S. argues that it is. I said that Tehran is very clean and green - and it is. I never said that it didn't have any air pollution - It does. Neither did I say or imply that Iran is perfect - It isn't - No country is, and certainly not the U.S. Most of the buildings that were showed as models in the pictures have been completed, some are under construction. I just couldn't find any good pictures of them online. In any case it shows that Iran is moving forward in its ambitious plans to develop into an advanced industrialized nation. There is a whole lot of poverty in the U.S. too you know... and homeless.... and slums. And as for pollution, ask Bush jr what he thinks about the environment and pollution!

All i wanted to say is that what comes out in the media portrays the image i told u about, and i gave out this so-called "live" example... maybe i didn't choose it very well but all i wanted to say that the image given even in Arab media isn't that good although what u've shown is good.... Hence the problem in ur propaganda that i mentionned

I think it depends on which Arab media you rely on for your news. While Arabs and Persians have historically been at odds, primarily for ethnic reasons, but also for religiour sectarian reasons, it cannot be denied that The Islamic Republic of Iran has to a large degree also been admired in some Arab circles for its anti-Israeli stance, and its courage to stand up against the U.S.. In general, Arab countries are so disunited, and some have a very hostile stance towards non-Arab Iran, while the Islamic Republic of Iran has showed them ample good will. It is precisely this kind of mentality which makes it so easy for the neo-colonialists and imperialists to do whatever they wish in that region. Most Arab countries are shooting themselves in the foot - and they do it over and over again without learning from it.

Originally posted by deltaboy
Iran is changing we seen how the young Iranians wants change and the Mullahs can't do anything about it, they try to denie they their rights but now they have to let them do what they want to do as independents, and not allow the Koran or ideology tells them how to do with their lives living comfortably. we all saw the protests for reforms back in 1999 and now the Mullahs realize force aint the answer they have to adapt the young Iranians needs and wants and not try to supress it.

Yes, people want change, but what many people in the West do not understand is that wanting change does not necessarily mean that they want a totally new system all together. Things are far more complicated than that in Iran. And all priests are not at all bad. Actually, most of them are not bad. A lot of the fiercest reformist voices come from the holy city of Qom - The theological center of Iran. A lot of the leading reformists are priests and Ayatollahs. I'm convinced that the vast majority of Iranians want change from within the system, and absolutely not forced upon them by foreigners or exile Iranian political groups who are totally out of touch with the realities in Iran. And this change must and will come gradually. The reason why the masses never turn against the regime is because although they want change they also acknowledge that the revolution has brought them much good as well. I myself was a fierce opponent of the revolution and of the Islamic Republic until I visited for the first time in 24 years two years ago. While I saw a lot of negative stuff, I was more stunned at how far the country has gone in many areas, and how self-reliant Iran has become. Now I'm planning a permanent move back by next year hopefully. Iran is a country of contrasts and contradictions - Therefore one can't simplify things by drawing the conclusion that since the people want change they are against the system. You will find plenty of people who for instance may admire the late Ayatollah Khomeini and speak well of him, while they at the same time feel great nostalgia for the late Shah of Iran and his imperial regime, while at the same time curse the corruption and oppression of both the Shah and the Islamic Republic, and while they may hold the opinion that there was more law and order during the time of the Shah, they also may applaud the many achievements of the Islamic Republic. And they may dance to Iranian and western popular music, while at the same time being very devoted Muslims who adhere to strict moral principles - And they can feel great affection for America as a country and Americans as a people, but be very hostile towards the policies of the U.S. government and its attempts to interfere in Iran's internal affairs.

The riots of 1999 that you're referring to were very limited, and involved at the most some 10,000 students in Tehran. It was nothing very major, but it recieved such attention because it was the first time that there were violent demonstrations calling for reforms. One thing is for sure, if it weren't for the hostililities of the U.S. and Israel against Iran, the reform movement would have gained much more momentum in Iran. The U.S. hostilities and harassement has blown wind into the forces of the conservatives, and Iranians who are wary of the U.S. hostilities are willing to rally behind the conservatives because of it.

Originally posted by Siroos
Iran will pursue its nuclear programme and nobody can or will stop it! The Iranian nation is determined, and now more than ever do we realize that we do need the bomb, so that we once and for all can stop the harassment of the U.S. and Israel.

You just got sucker punched, too bad.

I knew some Iranians (Shah era) and they were great people. Those women in those photos make me wished - - ahh, well. good looking people!

This photo essay is good. I appreciate you taking the time to educate those that seek to know.

As Iran does whatever it is going to do I really hope this pursuit of 'the bomb' drops by the wayside.

Iran has so much more to offer its people and the world than tension.

Thanks again for the pics

Hi Siroos,

Good thread.

My family and friends untill a short while ago enjoyed taking holidays and spending lots of money in the US and buying US products. Due to recent, um, happenings, we have decided to not visit the US in future and not to buy any products from the US.

I have a question for you.

I am very interested in visiting Iran, it is a beautiful country and I wonder what a holiday there would be like.

Is Iran a "good" place for tourists to visit?

and

How does the average Iranian feel about the British? Would I feel welcome there?

Thanks

Kriz

[edit on 28-4-2005 by Kriz_4]

Originally posted by fledgling666
i agree with both sides on this one. i think Iran needs to honor the treaty they signed, at least i coulda swore i heard they signed it, maybe i'm wrong (non-proliferation treaty). therefore, they have vowed not to build nuclear weapons. nuclear power is one thing, but to have enrichment facilities to create the sort of uranium necessary for weapons is defying the treaty. this they need to explain.

You're wrong about that the treaty forbids Iran or any other signatories to enrich uranium. The treaty allows the enrichement of uranium, but forbids them from creating nuclear weapons. There has been no evidence or proof showing that Iran is creating nuclear weapons, so therefore one cannot conclude that Iran has violated the treaty. But how about the U.S.? They have also signed the treaty, and they have also violated it. Becasue the treaty calls for the signatories who have nuclear weapons to actively work towards dismantling their arsenals. The U.S. has not only not done that, but they have declared that they intend to expand and develop their nuclear arsenals. While Iran has fully cooperated with the IAEA, the U.S. has refused IAEA and the UN any access to their nuclear programme and arsenal, and the U.S. has refused to cooperate in any UN investigaion of its nuclear arsenal. The U.S. has also vetoed the UN's demand to access Israels nuclear sites and any investigations of Israel's nuclear programme. Iran has every right according to the treaty it has signed to pursue its enrichment of uranium.

i also agree that a self-sufficient Iran is a threat to the west, and partly because it will prove that a mixture of an Islamic government and a democracy can be done. but also because it will begin to produce and export more and more items to the rest of the world and be more of a competing business with the west's businesses.

Well, tough luck for you! Do you think that you and your people, wherever you're from, have the right to live decent lives and we should not have the same right? Are you made of gold? Are you God's chosen people? Your statement is so ludicrous and racist that it really doesn't even deserve any attention! Is it a bad thing that it can prove that Islam and democracy are compatible? What kind of reasoning is that? You better wake up from your racist dream world or the realities of the future will hurt you badly. So what do suggest? That the West colonialize Iran and makes her dependent on the west, so that that the west can get richer while Iranians get poorer? I think you have under estimated Iran, Iranians and their great civilization. Iran has never been colonialized and will never be. Iran, China and India are the new economic powers of the future and you better get used to the idea.

i have seen the photos before and i have to question- where are the slums? there was one photo of "the projects" but i mean real slums. where are the homeless? the poor? the handicapped?

We moved the slums underground, just we did with our nuclear sites to hide them from the world. The homeless, the poor, the handicapped(?) we sent all of them to your countries so that they can live of your welfare and make you bankrupt. My intention was to show the development of Iran and the progress - Now, why would I want to include pictures of the poor and of the slums? I'm not denying that we have slums in Iran - They have slums in France and the U.S. too.... I don't deny that we have poor people in Iran---- That they have in France and the U.S. too. But the living standards are improving in Iran, and Iran is not like you imagine when you think of the poor and the slums. It's not as bad as you imagine. You probably would be very dissapointed if you went to Iran and saw that it wasn't as poor as you had hoped!

one other thing- Iran needs to come clean on it's funding and support of terrorists around the world.

oh, and- didn't Iran kidnap and keep British or American reporters for something like almost 5 years?

Iran is not funding any terrorists. It's supporting a national resistance against the Israeli occupation of Palestinian lands. The U.S. supported the Contras against the Sandinista regime in Nicaragua. Iran has never supported any terrorists around the world. Iran has never kidnapped any British or American reporters. That was in Lebanon. What about the state sponsored terror of the U.S. and Israel? Do you know how many innocent people have lost their lives or had their lives shattered because of that? Don't be such a bigot - it hurts you more than it hurts anyone else!

Originally posted by JoeDoaks

Originally posted by Siroos
Iran will pursue its nuclear programme and nobody can or will stop it! The Iranian nation is determined, and now more than ever do we realize that we do need the bomb, so that we once and for all can stop the harassment of the U.S. and Israel.

You just got sucker punched, too bad.

I knew some Iranians (Shah era) and they were great people. Those women in those photos make me wished - - ahh, well. good looking people!

This photo essay is good. I appreciate you taking the time to educate those that seek to know.

As Iran does whatever it is going to do I really hope this pursuit of 'the bomb' drops by the wayside.

Iran has so much more to offer its people and the world than tension.

Thanks again for the pics

It's just because we want to avoid tension that we need the bomb. Unfortunately it is that way. Iran has many enemies, and I'm not talking about the U.S. now - I mean real bad potential enemies in our own backyard. Pakistan who supported the fiercly anti-Iranian Talibans in Afghanistan has the bomb. They Pakistani regime are the last ones one can ever trust! And the fact that the U.S. is arming them now shows how the U.S. again and again in its imperialist ambitions make grave mistakes which others have to pay for later. Iran needs a weapon of detente. Unfortunately.

Originally posted by Kriz_4
Hi Siroos,

Good thread.

My family and friends untill a short while ago enjoyed taking holidays and spending lots of money in the US and buying US products. Due to recent, um, happenings, we have decided to not visit the US in future and not to buy any products from the US.

I have a question for you.

I am very interested in visiting Iran, it is a beautiful country and I wonder what a holiday there would be like.

Is Iran a "good" place for tourists to visit?

and

How does the average Iranian feel about the British? Would I feel welcome there?

Thanks

Kriz

[edit on 28-4-2005 by Kriz_4]

Hi Kriz! You would be VERY pleased with how you would be treated in Iran. Few other countries have such an incredibly hospitable people, if I may say so as an Iranian myself. There is absolutely no problems at all for British citizens to visit Iran, and many do. Make a google search for travel stories from travellers in Iran, and you will see how they all give credit to the Iranians for being so friendly and extremely hospitable. There are many westerners who visit Iran and have a great time there. The only negative for a Western tourist, for now at least, is that alcohol is prohibited, although there's plenty of it in the homes of Iranians, and the dress code which requires women to wear a loose fitting scarf on their head and no bikinis on the beaches. The dress code is getting less strict for every year, the heels of womens' shoes are getting higher, the clothes tighter and more leg is visible for every year. On the ski slopes and on the Island of Kish many women fearlessly even take off their scarf occassionally. Iran has a very varied nature and great contrasts in climate. I can post some links for you if you're interested....

Best wishes to you!

Originally posted by Siroos
It's just because we want to avoid tension that we need the bomb. Unfortunately it is that way. Iran has many enemies, and I'm not talking about the U.S. now - I mean real bad potential enemies in our own backyard. Pakistan who supported the fiercly anti-Iranian Talibans in Afghanistan has the bomb. They Pakistani regime are the last ones one can ever trust! And the fact that the U.S. is arming them now shows how the U.S. again and again in its imperialist ambitions make grave mistakes which others have to pay for later. Iran needs a weapon of detente. Unfortunately.

This (Pakistan/Iran) could make a good suject for education. I was only aware of 'disagreements.'

I will search this topic.

On another note Siroos, get a book on poker. Yes poker. Find some poker players where you live and learn the game even if poorly.

Never show your hole card.

Poker is more than a game, it is the nature of politics. I trust, that if you do this you will learn something very valuable that will stand you in good stead for life. (not Texas hold-em)

Take care-

Hi Kriz! You would be VERY pleased with how you would be treated in Iran. Few other countries have such an incredibly hospitable people, if I may say so as an Iranian myself. There is absolutely no problems at all for British citizens to visit Iran, and many do. Make a google search for travel stories from travellers in Iran, and you will see how they all give credit to the Iranians for being so friendly and extremely hospitable. There are many westerners who visit Iran and have a great time there. The only negative for a Western tourist, for now at least, is that alcohol is prohibited, although there's plenty of it in the homes of Iranians, and the dress code which requires women to wear a loose fitting scarf on their head and no bikinis on the beaches. The dress code is getting less strict for every year, the heels of womens' shoes are getting higher, the clothes tighter and more leg is visible for every year. On the ski slopes and on the Island of Kish many women fearlessly even take off their scarf occassionally. Iran has a very varied nature and great contrasts in climate. I can post some links for you if you're interested....

lol... Wait, does the dress code thing apply for foreigners?

Uh oh Siroos, looks like Bush's spies have already infiltrated Iran!





Just kidding.

I must admit, I had a different idea in my head of what Iran would look like, it looks pretty cool there. Thanks for the pictures, I'm always willing to learn new things.




[edit on 28-4-2005 by 27jd]

Pakistan who supported the fiercly anti-Iranian Talibans in Afghanistan has the bomb. They Pakistani regime are the last ones one can ever trust!

I didn't realize that relations between Iran and Pakistan were so tense.
If this is the case, it makes me rethink my beliefs about the Iranian nuclear program - I had always assumed it was largely intended to deter the Israelis, I hadn't realized that Iran had another hostile nuclear-capable neighbor.

jeeecese, why so many pics? u eating my hard drive clean.

Nice pics, it would be ashame if Iran continues with their Nuclear programs, as messes with the USA in nuclear way. The pictures of that aftermath would be something to see.

Originally posted by JoeDoaks

Originally posted by Siroos
It's just because we want to avoid tension that we need the bomb. Unfortunately it is that way. Iran has many enemies, and I'm not talking about the U.S. now - I mean real bad potential enemies in our own backyard. Pakistan who supported the fiercly anti-Iranian Talibans in Afghanistan has the bomb. They Pakistani regime are the last ones one can ever trust! And the fact that the U.S. is arming them now shows how the U.S. again and again in its imperialist ambitions make grave mistakes which others have to pay for later. Iran needs a weapon of detente. Unfortunately.

This (Pakistan/Iran) could make a good suject for education. I was only aware of 'disagreements.'

I will search this topic.

On another note Siroos, get a book on poker. Yes poker. Find some poker players where you live and learn the game even if poorly.

Never show your hole card.

Poker is more than a game, it is the nature of politics. I trust, that if you do this you will learn something very valuable that will stand you in good stead for life. (not Texas hold-em)

Take care-

Yes, many people overlook the issue of threats to Iran from its neighbors. Pakistan's goevernment's policy towards Iran has been and still is very hostile, although the two countries smile and shake hands once in a while. The Pakistanis were the backbone of the Talibans in Afghanistan, and yet they now are being awarded big time by the U.S. for having "cooperated" in the invasion of Afghanistan and in other projects of the U.S. in the region. The Pakistanis wholeheartedly supported and assisted the Talibans in their ethnic cleansing of Persian ethnic groups and Persian speaking groups in Afghanistan which killed tens of thousands of innocent people - entire cities even. Iran has many reasons to want to have a weapon that it can use for detente against hostile elements near and far away.

As for poker - Yes that might be a good idea. Those people that I know who play poler are very shrewd and smart. I'm more of an idealist who does is never shy of speaking my mind. I see your point. Thanks for the advise.