Fatima?

The third secret as it was revealed by Ratzinger, if it's complete in its integrity and if nothing in it was kept hidden, is obviously not about the assassination attempt on John Paul II.

If there is a cover-up or manipulation of information, that's where it resides; by having used the assassination attempt in 1981 to say that the prophecy was fullfilled, while this event only had a slight metaphoric relation to the Third Secret. It says clearly that the Pope is assassinated in a city that's HALF in ruins with all survivors in deep sorrow and corpses everywhere in the streets, and that he is to be killed at the top of a mountain, near a cross, by a GROUP of armed men. As far as I know the city of Rome was not into such a state when John Paul was shot, he was not shot on the top of a mountain and as we all know he was shot by a single shooter.

This prophecy is either a metaphor on the end of the Catholic Church or a vivid description of an event that still has to happen.

[edit on 26/4/05 by Echtelion]

The third and final secret of Fatima could very well have been so disturbing that the last surviving lady was intstructed not to divulge it. From the reading I have done in the past on the subject it must have been so upsetting that perhaps the girls were just plain afraid to let it be known to anyone else perhaps because it was so tragic no one would have believed them anyway.

Originally posted by Croat56
You guys think fatima is interesting then you should check out medjugorje. It had 10 secrets.

There was a huge feature about the Medjugorje secrets in on of our (UK) national newspapers a couple of years ago. I forget which paper it was, but the accounts given were incredible, and given credance by the fact that every lie test, psycological test available - along with lengthy interogation from the vatican - failed to find any evidence that the two girls who experienced the visions were lying, or deluded, or hallucinating. Truly an intriguing story...

I don't understand why the Catholic church endorses this type of crazy prophecy originating from children having visions of Mary but denounces authentic early Christian writings, such as the Dead Sea scrolls. It doesn't make sense for an "infallible" church to sponsor this type of foolishness.

Zip

Originally posted by Ryanp5555
now that you mention it, that is where they had the visions i believe. I dont think it is Catholicism and Islam uniting. That doesn't make sense. The leaders of Islam wouldn't allow it, nor would the leaders of christianity. The Whore is the UN.

www.understandthetimes.org...

Delegates attending the Vatican and United Nations (UN) inspired annual interfaith congress "The Future of God", held during October in Fatima , heard how the Shrine is to be developed into a center where all the religions of the world will gather to pay homage to their various gods. The Congress was held in the Paul VI Pastoral Center and presided over by the Cardinal Patriarch of Lisbon José de Cruz Policarpo

Its already started

Originally posted by jake1997

Delegates attending the Vatican and United Nations (UN) inspired annual interfaith congress "The Future of God", held during October in Fatima , heard how the Shrine is to be developed into a center where all the religions of the world will gather to pay homage to their various gods. The Congress was held in the Paul VI Pastoral Center and presided over by the Cardinal Patriarch of Lisbon José de Cruz Policarpo

Its already started

And that Cardinal got in big trouble... What he allowed went against
the rules and teachings of the Catholic faith. Technically when he
allowed buddhists and hindus and the rest to use Catholic altars for
their worship, then he allowed descration to take place and they
have to be rededicated to God and reblessed. A HUGE stink went
up over this ... HUGE ... and rightly so. The Cardinal screwed up
and this was against the Catholic rules.

Originally posted by Zipdot
I don't understand why the Catholic church endorses this type of crazy prophecy originating from children having visions of Mary

Technically the Catholic church never endorses visions. The Catholic
church investigates and puts one of three decisions upon the vision.
'Worthy of belief' is what was determined in Fatima. The church doesn't
say that it happened, what it says is that nothing that happened there
is against Catholic teaching so it's 'safe' for Catholics to believe in it
if they wish to. IF they wish to is the key here ..

The other categories are that the visions aren't supernatural or that
they are out and out evil (Bayside).

Originally posted by Croat56
You guys think fatima is interesting then you should check out medjugorje. It had 10 secrets.

Medjugorje has 5-7 kids (depending if you count locutionists or not)
and each kid (now grown up) has 10 secrets. Not all the secrets are
the same. Therefore - the actual number of secrets could be as much
as 70.

We went there May of 2000. VERY interesting. Beautiful country!
Nice people. Saw some interesting supernatural stuff ... very
interesting ...

Originally posted by Croat56
You guys think fatima is interesting then you should check out medjugorje. It had 10 secrets.

Wow!!!

I never knew of that one. So sad. Its pure satanic ya know... So sad.

Originally posted by alawler
Hey,
I know that some of you have read Dan Brown's Da Vinci Code, but have any of you read his book titled Angels and Demons? Its about the Illuminati and the Vatican. I have read it twice and the same part has stood out at me both times i read it. This part includes a reference to the Vatican Vaults and two collections of books / manuscripts.

The first of these collections is that of Fatima. It made reference to how the first two prophecies of Fatima had come true and that the third one was too stunning for the church to release.

The church released it recently. I beleive it was that the pope would survive an assasination attempt, which, of course, he did.

Or are they just a writers tools to make me interested in something that is not of great importance or something

The prophecies are real, brown's book, however, is fictional. Everything in the book, even tho some parts are supposed to be based on reality, are a writer's tools to create a story and make it interesting and appealing.

Are they just unreleased books of the bible

You have to keep in mind what the bible is. Its a collection of lots of other books, and the Catholic and most protestant bibles actually have different books in them. Most books are annonymous, or attributed to legendary characters, like Moses. The original copies don't exist, infact, the youngest copies are something like a hundred years older than the time of their supposed writting. Basically, the early christian community had lots of letters and books circulating around. Some came to be considered genuine, others recognized as frauds. Not all groups agreed as to what was genuine or fraud tho. The results are things like the apochrypha and pseudogripha and the like.
Heck, even in modern times people try to publish supposedly ancient 'lost' books, I recall a gospel of pilate(or was it thomas?) that was recently 'found' and published. There's even things like the Urantia book and the Mormon books, written by people claiming to have recieved the information thru scrying or divine intervention and such.

do they contain any information about the christian religion that the church does not want released because it will [and excuse me if anyone is a strong believer] deminish the prowess of Christ and God?

Lets think of it like this. lets pretend that there was an authentic gospel written by one of the apostles that give s the 'real' story, that jesus wasn't divine, that he died on the cross and wasn't ressurected, no miracles, and that, say, he had kids with a local hooker and whatnot. That book is expected to have circulated in the early christian community for a few hundred years, and then the Roman Catholic Church, which obviously didn't exist from the beginging, got all the copies, got all the references, and is keeping them in the vatican??? They'd've burnt all the books, like they and others burnt any books that they disagreed with, pagan or 'pseudo-christian', etc.
Also, from my understanding, if it weren't for the RCC or the Greek Orthodox church, there'd be no bible, they were the institutions that keep the books and copied them thru all those thousands of dark years when most other literature was destroyed and lost.

And that Cardinal got in big trouble... What he allowed went against
the rules and teachings of the Catholic faith. Technically when he
allowed buddhists and hindus and the rest to use Catholic altars for
their worship, then he allowed descration to take place and they
have to be rededicated to God and reblessed. A HUGE stink went
up over this ... HUGE ... and rightly so. The Cardinal screwed up
and this was against the Catholic rules.

Im looking for more information on this.

I keep finding JP2 raching out to islam and the Mary at yugoslavia saying all religions are good.
Cant find where the cardinal got in trouble tho

Wow this stuff is very very interesting, a lot more information than i could have ever known about if i never came to this forum. Zipdot, and correct me if i am wrong, but i believe that the Dead Sea Scrolls were Zealot scrolls written about 100 years before christ's birth but they may have contained prophecies or information on the coming of Christ or something of the sort? Kind of like Virgil and the interpretation of his 4th Eclogue? I'm going to check out that site about the Medjugorje, looks interesting. Its always very amazing to see people who have dreams, visions, or messages from religious figures [god or god's disciples, or even multiple gods] especially for someone who does not believe in them. thanks for all the info,

edit... wow i had a page loading error three times and it deleted my post twice... lol such a pain

[edit on 27-4-2005 by alawler]

Fatima, ...

here's how the story in goes:

Fatima

The city of Fatima related to the aparitions of Our Lady of Fatima (NOssa Senhora de Fatima), is NOT in Spain, is in Portugal... the trip is shorter.

Sister Lucia, the last survivor of the three Portuguese shepherd children who told of a series of apparitions of the Virgin Mary in the village of Fátima in 1917, died on Sunday (FEB 13 2005) in her convent in Coimbra, Portugal. She was 97.

she was part of the Carmiltes Order, and I used to live about 5 minutes away from that convent. She was sworn to secrecy, and had a very closed visitation schedule.

About the 3 rd secret's menaing, here is our own spin on what he may be

Third Prophecy of Fatima

if you need anymore info, you can ask me and ill try to help as i can

Originally posted by alawler
Wow this stuff is very very interesting, a lot more information than i could have ever known about if i never came to this forum. Zipdot, and correct me if i am wrong, but i believe that the Dead Sea Scrolls were Zealot scrolls written about 100 years before christ's birth but they may have contained prophecies or information on the coming of Christ or something of the sort? Kind of like Virgil and the interpretation of his 4th Eclogue? I'm going to check out that site about the Medjugorje, looks interesting. Its always very amazing to see people who have dreams, visions, or messages from religious figures [god or god's disciples, or even multiple gods] especially for someone who does not believe in them. thanks for all the info,

edit... wow i had a page loading error three times and it deleted my post twice... lol such a pain

[edit on 27-4-2005 by alawler]

Ah, silly me. The Dead Sea scrolls are all Jewish writings from 200BC to 60AD. I meant to say the Nag Hammadi scrolls, which are from the 3rd and 4th centuries but purportedly based on lost works from the 1st and 2nd centuries, and are mostly Christian.

Zip

I can already hear the yelling, but I'll say it anyway. Apparitions of Mary are not from God. They are sent from the evil one and are meant to confuse and turn people's attention from Christ. satan can transform(disguise) himself as an angel of light, and so can those who serve him(fallen angels and people). For people they can appear to be on Christ's side but in reality are not.

People have to remember that satan wants attention turned toward himself, he wants to be worshipped. For a christian the measuring stick must be the Bible, when you go outside of it and go to "extra-biblical" stuff(whatever it is) extreme discernment and knowledge regarding the things of God must be employed to know if it's of God or not.

DBRANT... you may be right about the source of this aparitions, but the fact his whoeveer they were related to, information was given...and thats up to us to find out what to do with it ...

I have seen people post the 3rd secret of Fatima, but all of them are on the Vatican website. A piece that has been missing in the explanation is that the 3rd secret also foretold of the rise and fall of Communism. I would like to stress what has been said before about the Church not endorsing these apparitions. They allow people to believe in them if they wish, but it's not considered Catholic docterine, which by defination needs to have been established in the Apostolic era.

Apochrypha and the Dead Sea Scrolls- Ok, Apocrypha comes from the Greek for "hidden." If you are Protestant, these books inlcude books like the Gospel of Thomas, the Gospel of Peter, as well as books that the Catholic Church recognizes as valid Old Testament scripture- these are known as Deutrocanoncial and include MaccabeesI and II, Sirach, Wisdom, and three other books I can't remember off the top of my head as well as extra parts of books still in the Protestant Bible. The Dead Sea scrolls are in a way connected to these writings. Luther took out the books from cannon, i.e. the Bible, for various reasons including the fact that he didn't know of any Hebrew versions of the books. When the Dead Sea Scrolls were discovered many of the Deuterocanonical writings were found in them as Hebrew translations, cementing the Catholic belief that these books were indeed known by Jesus and his followers.

Originally posted by BaastetNoir
information was given...and thats up to us to find out what to do with it ...

Information from the satan and or those who serve him would be disinformation. Disinformation should be discarded as lies and what will lead people away from God. I already know what to do with it. Toss it in a garbage can.

Hebrews 1:2 God who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these LAST DAYS SPOKEN UNTO US BY HIS SON, whom He appointed heir of all things, by whom also He made the worlds

[edit on 29-4-2005 by dbrandt]

Originally posted by dbrandt
Information from the satan and or those who serve him would be disinformation. Disinformation should be discarded as lies and what will lead people away from God. I already know what to do with it. Toss it in a garbage can.

Hebrews 1:2 God who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these LAST DAYS SPOKEN UNTO US BY HIS SON, whom He appointed heir of all things, by whom also He made the worlds

For all you know, Hebrews and the like is from Satan.

And by the way, read my signature, the God of your Bible, the father of your saviour, worked alone. He was supposedly God after all, and needs no mortal man to appear to a few when he has the power to shake your world in ways you cannot imagine and cause us mere servants to never forget his awesome power.

Therein lies the lie within the NT.

Originally posted by Zipdot
I don't understand why the Catholic church endorses this type of crazy prophecy originating from children having visions of Mary but denounces authentic early Christian writings, such as the Dead Sea scrolls. It doesn't make sense for an "infallible" church to sponsor this type of foolishness.

The Catholic church is the oldest institution alive in the world today. Almost since the beginning, they had the numbers and the powers on their side, for better or worse. Their accumulated knowledge over centuries translates into their priorities today. In the light of their experience, If what they endorse now seems a little farfetched, wouldn't it be the time to question the value of some kinds of "common sense"?
Even if you discard the prophecies, there is no denying that mass-sightings occurred. They were reported in newspapers, and were seen by crowds in different places, were seen by credible people.
The message was not contradictory with the creed, so Fatima was adopted as part of the Catholic furniture. In fact, nothing of what Fatima said was especially "christian". But it was not anti-christian either. It is one one those cases where "the medium is the message". The message of Fatima is world-expanding, and is a strong weapon against the rising tides of organized death.