something wrong with this??

No flame intended, but how do you know the Sun is going to rise in the morning?

Maybe you have some faith that it will?

Nay... it's more because of logic. We've seen the sun rise every morning, so it's logical to assume it will again. It is not faith. Of course, you could argue that then you'd have faith in logic, but that's really reaching, eh? What's more amazing, is that people have faith that a deity who's been doing nothing but ignoring their welfare for thousands of years, will suddenly start giving a damn...but hey, that's me...

Originally posted by GazrokNay... it's more because of logic. We've seen the sun rise every morning, so it's logical to assume it will again. It is not faith. Of course, you could argue that then you'd have faith in logic, but that's really reaching, eh? What's more amazing, is that people have faith that a deity who's been doing nothing but ignoring their welfare for thousands of years, will suddenly start giving a damn...but hey, that's me...

Don't ask what can God do for you, ask what you can do for God
I'm serious too. Life is a journey, who are last will be first, many first will be last. Everything is opposite on another world, suffering for God returns multiple times in joy and sinful suffering in pain for eternity.

There is no beginning, and no end. Even God states this in a way, by saying he is the beginning and the end.

The universe and nature work in cycles, beginning and end is a human concept that they ignore... Matter and Energy always exist, they just change form.

I don't need the threat of an afterlife realm of punishment to "force" me to do good. I simply choose to do good, because it is desirable to me...

Christ said: "My kingdom is not of this world." The Pope conquers cities by force.
Christ had a crown of thorns. The Pope wears a triple diadem.
Christ washed the feet of his disciples. The Pope has his kissed by kings.
Christ paid tribute. The Pope takes it.
Christ fed the sheep. The Pope shears them for his own profit.
Christ was poor. The Pope wishes to be master of the world.
Christ carried on His shoulders the cross. The Pope is carried on the shoulders of his servants in liveries of gold.
Christ despised riches. The Pope has no other passion than for gold.
Christ drove out the merchants from the temple. The Pope welcomes them.
Christ preached peace. The Pope is the torch of war.
Christ was meekness. The Pope is pride personified.
Christ promulgated laws that the Pope tramples underfoot.

from here: www.ianpaisley.org...

that if Jesus really was around today, he would be horrified to see how his teachings have been warped by those who profess to speak for him....

alienaddicted those are dirty shameless lies, myths.
Not one of those points are true, if you want I can go through each one of them but I think you know they are false.
It's sad people believe all the crap they find on websites.
I wonder what else are people ready to believe, haven't you learned from history?
Because of propaganda people embraced nazism, communism and all sorts of evils.

Pope lives in a simple room, prays every day for many hours, aids poor and wants peace.
It is sad you don't investigate anything by yourself, you need some pathetic website to tell you. Just looking at "false doctrines" document, it's fool of flaws, wrong dates and years and you want to believe such website. You might want to investigate other side of story first.

"There are not over a hundred people...who hate the Roman Catholic Church. There are millions, however, who hate what they wrongly believe to be the Catholic Church."

- Bishop Fulton J. Sheen

"alienaddicted those are dirty shameless lies, myths.
Not one of those points are true,

talking about this post?:

christ pope?

"if you want I can go through each one of them but I think you know they are false.

that would be nice.

I don't think they are all false.

"It's sad people believe all the crap they find on websites.

the link I gave was just to show where I got it from, and mention the questionmark in the title of the post

"I wonder what else are people ready to believe, haven't you learned from history?
Because of propaganda people embraced nazism, communism and all sorts of evils.

because of this I -think- you're American, if so, don't be fooled yourself.

"Pope lives in a simple room,

I don't know, really?

"prays every day for many hours,

should be

"aids poor

no, that was ghandi, theresa...

"and wants peace.

yeah, he talks a lot


It is sad you don't investigate anything by yourself, you need some pathetic website to tell you. Just looking at "false doctrines" document, it's fool of flaws, wrong dates and years and you want to believe such website. You might want to investigate other side of story first.

oh well, spit it all out, let's just discuss the things I mentioned owkay


Luke 20:46 "Beware of the scribes, who like to walk in long robes, and love greetings in the marketplaces, the best seats in the synagogues, and the best places at feasts; 20:47 who devour widows' houses, and for a pretense make long prayers: these will receive greater condemnation."

In old testament, there was 'high priest' which is equivalent for pope now. High priest was established by God's order.

2 Kings 22:4
"Go up to Hilkiah the high priest and have him get ready the money that has been brought into the temple of the LORD , which the doorkeepers have collected from the people.

Luke 18:12
I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.'

God wants us to give money for his church, it is his will. In old testament God commanded to give tenth. He also wanted great temple.

For donating see this:
Pope donates more money for Vietnam flood victims
Vatican donates $400,000 to Roman Catholics in the Holy Land
Pope donates for Orthodox Church construction
Pope Donates Equipment to Kiev Children's Hospital
Pope donates $500,000 to Uganda to fight AIDS
I could go on...

Corinthians 3:16Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and [that] the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? 17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which [temple] ye are.

Acts 7:47 But Solomon (David's son) was the person who built the temple. 48 "But the Most High (God) does not live in houses that men build with their hands. This is what the prophet writes: 'The Lord says, Heaven is my throne. 49 The earth is a place to rest my feet. What kind of house can you build for me? There is no place where I need to rest! 50 Remember, I made all these things!'"

Isaiah 66 1 Thus saith the LORD, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest? 2 For all those things hath mine hand made, and all those things have been, saith the LORD: but to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word. 3 He that killeth an ox is as if he slew a man; he that sacrificeth a lamb, as if he cut off a dog�s neck; he that offereth an oblation, as if he offered swine�s blood; he that burneth incense, as if he blessed an idol. Yea, they have chosen their own ways, and their soul delighteth in their abominations. 4 I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but they did evil before mine eyes, and chose that in which I delighted not.

Yes, we are temple of God, but that's different.

Luke 2
The Boy Jesus at the Temple
...
After three days they found him in the temple courts, sitting among the teachers, listening to them and asking them questions.
...
His mother said to him, "Son, why have you treated us like this? Your father and I have been anxiously searching for you."
"Why were you searching for me?" he asked. "Didn't you know I had to be in my Father's house?" But they did not understand what he was saying to them.

Jesus had to be in house of his Father, and we all do.

So is there only 1 house of the Father, in Jeruzalem, or are the churches we build also houses of the Father?

It was a temple.. there were many temples, now churches..

you didn't really answer my question.

Originally posted by Megaquad

It was a temple..

*The temple of God?, House of His Father?

there were many temples,

*Also temples of God?

now churches..

*Are churches the same as the temple(s??) of God? If so, why did they start building churches then instead of temples?

Temple, church.. that's just a name, not really any difference.
Temple was more common when reffering to old testament, before Jesus.

>The temple of God?, House of His Father?
It is a place devoted *only* to God, where he is worshipped and where thoughts are devoted only to him, not on world and other things.

On the original topics... Satanist kind of "adopted" the reverse cross as their, or one of their symbol.

www.pbministries.org...

A church is not a building?

getting a bit complicated here

I have to eat, back soon

Originally posted by Megaquad
It was a temple.. there were many temples, now churches..

Dead wrong! There was only one Temple. The Temple which Solomon built that was rebuilt after the Babylonian captivity and that the Romans rebuilt again. God had only one House. Before the Temple was built, God's Law lived in a tent.

Blessings,
Mikromarius

I'll look into that.. but it does not necessarily mean that only one temple is a home of God. It could be likely symbol for all such 'holy places'.

[Edited on 31-7-2003 by Megaquad]