Was there ANY other way?

From home.nc.rr.com...

The question is most often asked by those who are trying to learn more about the salvation they have already received, and by those who have already rejected it, and now rail against it.

Why did Jesus have to die on the cross?
Its usually formed like this:
"If God can do anything, then why didn't He just snap His fingers and restore things to the pre-sin condition?" "Is there anything that God cannot do?!" The second question must be answered first.

The rest is home.nc.rr.com...

Yes, there is something that God cannot do. God cannot be untrue to His nature. To answer the question "was there any other way? I would have to answer yes. Certainly, for God, there were a multitude of other ways, however He chose the way of the cross so as to clearly illustrate, in human terms, the love He has for his creation.

It was the way of 'execution' at that time. Some era's have had beheading as the 'execution of the time'. Its a matter of what was going on then.

I consider the barbarian Vikings ruthless and awful too.....that had nothing to do with God - its MAN that comes up with the hows and whats of execution. Not God. Its just unfortunate that Jesus was alive at such a barbaric time of mankinds history that he suffered so much, like MANY other 'criminals' did in that era.

Just look around you today - there is still plenty of dispicable deaths taking place even today. God can't intervene in MAN's actions.

Jake nice post....

According to ancient tradition, the last remains of the father of mankind — Adam — reposed here. In his Epistle to the Jews, Saint Apostle Paul points out the special meaning that “Jesus….suffered outside the gate.” ....meaning outside the gates of PARADISE(which was the church ) ...when the fall of man happened.....through the sin of Adam(meaning man)
(Mat. 27:33-44; Mark 15:22-32; Luke 23:33-38; John 19:18-24)

Also.....
in this thread as Islam made a comment regarding Christ been accursed....
www.belowtopsecret.com...
and here is the answer..
www.belowtopsecret.com...

Christ had to redeem man because it was the only way to save us from the sin in the beginning....
there was no other way that man could be saved....of-course God could do anything....but the Law of God in the Old Testament still stood.




[edit on 4/27/2005 by helen670]

[edit on 4/27/2005 by helen670]

[edit on 4/27/2005 by helen670]

Your asking the wrong question. It's not "Was there any other way to purify us of our sins?", but "Was it even necessary to purify us of our sins?".

According to Ezekial 18:60, the son doesn't have the sin of the father. Why should something that happened at the beginning of time have to be beared by us? Do you really believe that a new born babe can be ANYTHING BUT the purest and most innocent of God's creations?
To me at least, the concept of forgiveness by blood seems hugely barbaric, and unGodly.

Another thing I don't get: If dying was the punishment for Adam's sin, why didn't the believers of Jesus live forever? His disciples at least should still be around.

Also, Jesus is said to have born the suffering of entire humanity to have been able to take on all their sins onto himself. I'm not trying to be cold-hearted here, but I am pretty sure that there are worse pains than being crucified. I am pretty sure that even most of the punishments in hell are worse than being crucified.

It is obvious that such a sacrifice would be unecessary, considering that there were many before Jesus who have most assuredly gained access to heaven. No one can seriously claim that Noah, Abraham, David etc. went to hell because of Adam's sin.

The question asked was

Why did Jesus have to die, if God can do anything?

God cant do anything. God cant act outside of his nature. God is good and just. Therefore the law had to be fulfilled. Jesus fulfilled the law.

The wages of sin is death. So in adam all die. Our spirit is dead until the Holy Spirit quickens us when we are saved. Our flesh is still doomed to die. It is corrupt.

Learn more home.nc.rr.com...

Scroll down and you will see a link titled "notes". It will answer the noah - abraham , david question you had.

When I was christian.. I was never comfortable with relying on the murder of someone to save me. Seems contradictory as he died from [a forewarned and therefore preventable] sin.. but of course if he died from old age he probably wouldn't have become legendary anyway..

Just pondering.

Gods is holy and cannot sin
God is also enternal and cannot die
God created his son, to be the perfect sacrifice. Sacrifical lamb
Because Jesus was Both Man and God, he could die.
Because Jesus was both man and God, he could be resurrected

Did Jesus have to die on a cross? No. But it was at the time a death reserved for the most cruel and evil people. Jesus did nothing wrong, and he yet suffered the innocnet punishment for EVERYONE's sin. And he did it out of Love, for those who did not love him.

I have learned, that if God is going to create a miricle, it is going ot be one that is a show stopper

A-men Jehosephat


riley,
the bible says Jesus laid down his life. He was particularly clear about it.
They didnt take it, he gave it

That said, Im glad you enjoyed the study


[edit on 27-4-2005 by jake1997]

Sorry to be so badgering. I still don't get it.

Originally posted by jake1997
So in adam all die. Our spirit is dead until the Holy Spirit quickens us when we are saved. Our flesh is still doomed to die. It is corrupt.

I think you misunderstood my point. According to Ezekial 18:60, the son doesn't not suffer for the fathers sin. So in Adam, all would NOT die. At least not because of punishment for sin. We die so that we can once again be re-united with God, after having understood both good and evil (on earth). Why should our flesh be corrupt? Adam lived in heaven in the flesh.

Originally posted by jake1997
Learn more home.nc.rr.com...

Scroll down and you will see a link titled "notes". It will answer the noah - abraham , david question you had.

I don't quite get that either. Are you saying that there is a difference between paradise/Abraham's bossom and heaven? You also seem to be assuming that paradise/Abraham's bossom is in the earth. Luke 16:22 doesn't seem to agree with you. The angels CARRIED the beggar into Abraham's bossom. Sounds like somewhere high up.

Adam was perfect until he sinned. There was no corruption until satan became corrupt and led Eve astray.
Adam followed.
The flesh is doomed because of that.

As for Paradise/Abrahams bosom.

Yes, it is different from heaven. It exists no more. No one could goto heaven until Jesus died for sin. God cannot tolerate sin in his presence.
So now the place under the earth consists solely of hell (not the lake of fire...that is different).
I will find a page that explains the whole thing if you dont understand now.

Yes, there are millions of other ways.

If you believe that the deity is infallible...
...that nothing is impossible for the deity...
...that the deity knows the outcome of everything...

...then it would not be impossible for that deity to have created both free will (since he knows the outcome of everything) and no desire to "sin." The outcome of free will is not necessarily sin (for instance. I have free will to decide to move to Houston or stay in Dallas. Niether option is sinful and the whole issue is the issue of what I want to do -- free will.)

If you grant the above three things, then the deity knew that when Satan was created that Satan would turn out rebellious. The deity could have chosen to not create Satan or to create a modified version (sin isn't necessary, you know) or to create Satans for various sins, etc, etc.

If the deity doesn't know the outcome of free will, then the prophecies may all be false and there's no guarantee of who will win the Final Battle.

If the deity knows the outcome of free will, then everyone who goes to hell was designed to go to hell and the deity knew it from the moment that he contemplated making Earth.

...which is why the gnostics believed that the entity you call "God/Yahweh/YHVH/Jehovah" is actually an evil entity and one that rebelled from the REAL god of the universe ("Wisdom" ... aka "Sophia"... and yes, a female principle.)

If the deity knows the outcome of free will,........

That was pretty good reasoning by human standards. We are not talking about human standards however.

You decided that there was an 'outcome' of free will. That it must be solid, one way or the other.
Here is the thing that objects to that

When God created the angels, they ALL were perfect. They all, like God, had free will. Lucifer was perfect until iniquity was found in him.

What was that iniquity? SOme of this answer we see in the bible, some is deduced from it.
Lucifer wanted to be lifted up and worshiped like God and along side of God. Lucifer saw how beautiful he was, and how powerful he was, and how great his music was...and decided he should be worshiped. The bible tells us Pride was the sin.

The bible also tells us that Lucifer was in Eden when he was perfect. From here we start using logic.
God created man and put him in Eden. God created mankind to worship God.
Sure, we have a life, but the heart of our life is to worship God. (some of you have a hard time with that....but you want a faithfull loyal dog, wife, kids, friends....thats the level im on with this)
SO when Luci saw mankind doing what he was supposed to, his pride blossomed. He wanted to be worshiped.
Eve, in listening to, and BELIEVING satans words..(Gen 3 'you will be like God'.... vs Gods word in Gen 1 "created in the image of God") ..they worshiped. That is what its about. Whos word you believe and listen to.

So mankind followed satan, and then realized the mistake and tried to hide from God.
1/3 of the angels also sinned, and did not turn back. All things being relative, that might be the ratio of humans throughout history that live/die in eternity.

SO... satan was cast out of the garden like man.
The outcome of free will + knowledge of good and evil is that people who are not full of pride will follow God.

Christ had to die so that the law could be fulfilled.
The first law was,
Eat from the tree and you will surely die.
Christ died in your place.
If God simply threw out the law and snapped his fingers to make things right, then the law, HIS WORD, would be as worthless as satans.
That was satans trap...but it backfired.

Now you all have a choice and I can only promise you that if you pray and believe in your heart, then God will answer. He HAS TO...because he said he would. He has to keep his word