Is America the Great Babylon of Endtime Prophecy?

I've always been taught that the United States is not mentioned in end-time prophecy. I've always found that very hard to fathom, considering we are the most powerful nation the world has ever seen.

Seeing the secular and religious frauds abound, I began to reconsider what I've been taught on that and am seeking my own answers. At this point, I believe Manhattan (center of all world trade/political discourse) and the USA are, in fact, Mystery Babylon.

Here's a place to start for anyone interested (good scripture references):

IS AMERICA BABYLON?

Part One


www.truinsight.com...





The vast majority of Christians in the United States have been taught that America is simply not in Bible prophecy. No matter where one may turn, America is not there, either by name or by any form of code name either. Thus say the host of America's Christian clergy to their flock. The second thing they are told is that Babylon is NEVER TAUGHT ANYWHERE IN SCRIPTURE AS A NATION. Babylon is a SYSTEM, and most view it as a RELIGIOUS SYSTEM OF SOME SORT.

Prophecy said these views would surface at the time of end. It is the mark of apostasy to DENY YOUR IDENTITY, YOUR SIN, AND THE TIME OF YOUR VISITATION. In fact, that is the essence of all apostasy, THE REJECTION OF SCRIPTURE AS IT APPLIES TO A PERSON, COMMUNITY OR NATION. It is always SOMEONE ELSE, SOMEWHERE ELSE, AND AT SOME UNKNOWN "FUTURE TIME". Never is it NOW, US and OUR NATION.

Does it not seem odd to you that America, the GREATEST NATION IN THE WORLD, the greatest evangelical nation; that took the Gospel of Christ to the four corners of the world; THE RICHEST NATION ON THE EARTH, who has given more aid to nations than any other; THE NATION TO HAVE WON TWO MAJOR WORLD WARS and many others; IS NOT EVEN MENTIONED IN THE BIBLE? That God would forget a nation that has been central to the survival of Israel in this age? Not even in a cryptic way?

That is like saying God is blind in one eye, and cannot see out of the other! It is accusing God of utter negligence! But it is not God who is NEGLIGENT. It is not God who FORGOT AMERICA in prophecy. It is not God who failed to paint a picture that was obvious to those that wanted to find it. IT IS NOT GOD, BUT THE FALSE PROPHETS OF AMERICA WHO HAVE UTTERLY FAILED THEIR FLOCK. They are DECEIVED, AND THUS ARE DECEIVERS AND HYPOCRITES, FOR THEY LEAD MILLIONS TO ETERNAL RUIN.
www.theforbiddenknowledge.com...

The way I see the USA going in so many ways, I have no reason to disbelieve this is our course.

Your idea can't be ruled out, ECK. I've wondered this myself.

The prophecies that speak of the kings and merchants of the world moarning for the sudden destruction of the commerce and gold sure sounds like references to Wall Street.

And it's not like we're a shining beacon of moral higher ground.

Some people think it could be America, others think it's the Vatican, I actually think it could be the United Nations.

Originally posted by Valhall
The prophecies that speak of the kings and merchants of the world moarning for the sudden destruction of the commerce and gold sure sounds like references to Wall Street.

And it's not like we're a shining beacon of moral higher ground.

That's exactly what I'm talkin' about. What other nation/city on earth fits that description you mentioned, specifically? None, in recorded history, in my opinion.

I tell you what in my father adventist belief he thinks that US is the great Babylon, because its influence reach every nation in the world.

Also the battler of the oldest nation against the youngest nation is obvious, the middle east by bible standards is the oldest region and from where civilization was born.

While the US is the youngest nation in the world with power over others.

Originally posted by djohnsto77
Some people think it could be America, others think it's the Vatican, I actually think it could be the United Nations.

Ah.. but where is the United Nations? Manhattan.

Originally posted by marg6043
Also the battler of the oldest nation against the youngest nation is obvious, the middle east by bible standards is the oldest region and from where civilization was born.

While the US is the youngest nation in the world with power over others.

Excellent point, Marg. This is a quote about that from the article:

This is a direct reference to BABYLON THE GREAT, who is also called THE DAUGHTER OF BABYLON. Jeremiah calls her directly THE HINDERMOST OF THE NATIONS. You view this his perspective, as he looks down the tunnel of time - the HINDERMOST from him would be the LAST BABYLON. That means the LAST BABYLON TO RISE BEFORE THE END. The last and the YOUNGEST OF ALL THE GREAT NATIONS AT THE END TIME. In comparison with the other nations of the world, at the time of the end, SHE WILL BE THE YOUNGEST AND ALSO THE MOST POWERFUL NATION AMONG THE GREAT NATIONS. America fits that description perfectly. She is the YOUNGEST and yet the most powerful NATION among the NATIONS of the world.

We know for a fact that this must refer to a limited LAND MASS AREA WITH SPECIFIC BOUNDARIES, for THE WHOLE WORLD IS NOT DESTROYED, but BABYLON THE NATION IS DESTROYED. This latter day Babylon has a mother, which is also a NATION. This mother was responsible for "birthing" this mighty Babylon of the end times. If Iraq is Babylon as some try to claim, WHO IS THE MOTHER OF IRAQ? If you read this verse carefully, it says that the MOTHER NATION PRECEDED BABYLON, GAVE BIRTH TO HER, WATCHES HER RISE TO FULL POWER, AND WATCHES HER DIE IN FIRE. Again, WHO IS THE MOTHER OF IRAQ? Iraq has none.

Who is the mother of Rome, which is often presented as BABYLON? Rome is not a nation, but a city. Further, SHE HAS NO MOTHER. Who is the mother of the EC, which is often presented as BABYLON, THE REVIVED ROMAN EMPIRE? In point of fact, SHE WILL HAVE NO MOTHER, and further, BABYLON THE GREAT is always shown as a SINGLE NATION FROM HER BIRTH TO HER RISE TO FULL POWER AND GLORY. The EC does not qualify. Each parameter must be fulfilled. You CANNOT PICK AND CHOSE that which you wish to present to prove your case.
www.theforbiddenknowledge.com...

The USA can be ruled out.
Babylon is a city in the scripture.

Can NY be ruled out? Lets take a look.
Babylon is drunk with the blood of the saints and prophets.
Does NY fit that bill? No.

Then we have this
And on her forehead was written a name of mystery: "Babylon the great, mother of prostitutes and of earth's abominations."

NY is certainly a slimey place. It has all the abominations you could want. But so does Tokyo, Mexico City, London, Amsterdam, Paris, Rome.
But this babylon is the Mother of prostitutes.
Babylon is a religion. It is a perfect picture of the RCC. The babylonian religion home.nc.rr.com...
is a spitting image of Rome and reqired ALL WOMEN to serve as priestess's in the temples of the sex goddess. The mother of all prostitutes.

Rev 17:6 And I saw the woman, drunk with the blood of the saints, the blood of the martyrs of Jesus. When I saw her, I marveled greatly.

This does not fit the USA or NY. It does fit Rome. More importantly it will fit the 'interfaith' religion that is coming now.
Search google for interfaith religion and you will find the conspiracy of all conspiracies.

Rev 17:9 This calls for a mind with wisdom: the seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman is seated;

Rome, the city on 7 hills. The ROman Catholic Church . All religions will become one. Once the antichrist has all the eggs in one basket, he will destroy the whore and force people to worship HIM.

Rev 17:18 And the woman that you saw is the great city that has dominion over the kings of the earth."

You could make a case for the UN and NY on that.
But
Did NY rule at that time? No. Will NY still be here when this comes to pass?
Maybe not. Look at Ezekiel 39-6. Magog and someone "living carelessly on a distant coastland" have a nuclear war.

Rome ruled the world at that time. In Daniel we are told that the people of the antichrist will destroy the temple and Jerusalem. Rome did it in 70 AD.


In the 1800's the catholic church started changing mary into a goddess.
First, she became without sin like Jesus
then they accended her into heaven
then they made her co-redeemer
then they made her queen of heaven

Rev 18:7 As she glorified herself and lived in luxury, so give her a like measure of torment and mourning, since in her heart she says, 'I sit as a queen, I am no widow, and mourning I shall never see.'


I believe america is in scripture. But looking at todays world, scripture just wont work.
But
If the USA and Russia nuke each other....then the EU is on top of the world, and Rome...where the antichrist will come from according to scripture...is part of the eu....and
part of the 10 nation western EU that already has a military defense deal in effect

Think about this carefully as much of what you need to know is missing from your history books and much of what is in there is altered.

First thing you must know and believe..is that merchants ..especially international merchants are not necessarily loyal to any country ..they are loyal to thier profits. Not a concept that you will learn in schools or on the evening news..which is supposed to be "looking out for you"

The United States is not Mystery Babylon...though their are people here or persons who are part of this sect. It is obvious by events and even past historys that some people or groups do buisness together internationally and will sell the soul and blood of their country or any country for profit. They are long gone when this transpires and have their positions long established and secure.
What you need to know spiritually about this process is in the book of Revelation. I dont recall the chapter..but it has to do with a long list of stuff that the merchants sell with the consent of the whore of babylon..and the most important is the last one listed..."the souls of men."
What you need to know about history ...which is very difficult to find..is the trail of Merchants/manufacturers , Banks who make them loans, and insurance companys who insure the loans. This is the history of the world especially in modern times of such huge scale international commerce. Not this military stuff which catchs so many peoples fancy.
Remember East Coast Kid..these people/groups are loyal to their profits/power not to a nation.

Thanks
Orangetom

Interesting theory there.

I've thought about what the Mark of the Beast could be.
If we are indeed living in the endtimes, it makes sense that the mark of the beast is money. I've explained this in another thread recently.
Our society is obsessed with money. We are marked with it.
It is on our minds (the mark on the forehead) and it is how our work is valued (the mark on hands). Without it, we are not able to live. If you refuse the mark, you will starve to death.

Our whole system is the beast. The false prophets are presidents, politicians who say they do God's work, that God blesses their actions. The same people who condone child slavery, corruption, lies, deceit, murder and yet claim they are men of faith.

Without looking at the link I know what I know about the Babylon and the "la ramera" the whore, because when I was growing up my father's religion on Sabbath school were always making us aware of their version of the end of times.

I was a child occurs so all this stories used to scare the heck out of me, the big whore is the nation that has polluted the bible teachings, taking in consideration that the US has taken Christianity as their main religion is kind of scary and many other branches of Christianity has sprouted from the US it may look like US has change the original Christian religion into many versions that doesn't agree with each other right now Religion in the US is all for power.

Also as a whore has influenced with his power and its richest other nations of the world.

Also the adventist refer of Rome and the Vatican as the dragon of the seven head that has been polluted by the big whore.

Now people this are revelations from my father church back in the 60s and seventies when I was a child, is not my opinion.

Babylon is an ancient city that by bible standards got polluted, the Babylon of the end of the times is a symbol as another nation that will raise as babylon and become great and will influence other nations of the world.

That is what the adventist of my time when I was a child used to tell us.

double post.

[edit on 24-4-2005 by marg6043]

As for those who think America/NYC can't be Babylon, let me just say, we have not seen the fullfillment of certain prophecies; certain things have not yet come to pass.

The Mark of the Beast: I believe those in control of our monetary system are working us towards this. It will be a microchip in the hand (or forehead - retinal scan?). Our financial house of cards is a breath away from collapsing. I believe this has much to do with implementing the cashless society.

Manhattan most assuredly falls into the descriptions offered in the scriptures. As for those greedy bankers having no love for any country - I've been saying that for years - neither do most of our representatives. Theirs is a love of money and power and they have no other allegience. Show me one city in the world since the beginning of time that could rival NYC on the trade scale (and hedonism scale). There is no other.

Let's look at the corruption within this nation. In my lifetime (36 years) things have changed incredibly (socially/morally/spiritually), it's mind-boggling. I think tv has done more to damage us in that respect than anything.

I am not sure about all that mark stuff..but about babylon I am sure it is a metaphor for a system..not a nation. Or conversly it is a spiruitual system. You just have to be able to figure out what spirit or system is being spoken about.


The thing you need to learn about in any field...concerning spiritual things is which is the real thing and which is the counterfit. Studying counterfits means one thing. Studying hidden things...things not obvious to the naked eye. The essence of a counterfit is that it must look as close to the real thing to pass. It must not look like a obvious phoney or people will not believe it.
What you have here going on in many fields...education, money, politics etc..and of course the area which governs all of them ,,a religion ..is a counterfit which has overlaid the real thing and taken over...to look as if the real thing is happening to most people. The essence of a counterfit as it occurs long enough is that it saps the very life and soul out of a system. The system starts breaking down. It cannot sustain itself. This is because a counterfit eats up the seed corn....nothing left to plant next year to sustain the system. In economic terms...it translates...what you produce minus what you consume is what you have left to plant for next year. Seed corn. Well the counterfit removes this seed corn eventually. Why ...??? because everything becomes spiritually desolate. This is what some have tried to say in these rooms in different ways.
When you learn about spiritual things ..you will eventually learn about counterfits...the system under which counterfits must operate in order to not be that visible to the subjects it wants to rake over the coals....is called "Occult" hidden..concealed..esoteric. known only to a chosen few.
It is all around you ..in your money system ..on tv ..in education in politics.etc.etc in the news media..you can see it once your eyes are open.
This entire thing and the history surrounding it...and the master it serves is babylon.

Orangetom

The U.S. is not babylon but sure is part of it today. Babylon is located in present day Iraq and that is good enough for me. If the U.S. is occupying it then they sure are part of it.


[edit on 24-4-2005 by ncbrian211]

Originally posted by orangetom1999
I am not sure about all that mark stuff..but about babylon I am sure it is a metaphor for a system..not a nation. Or conversly it is a spiruitual system.

It is specifically referring to a nation/city; the last and greatest of the nations, "surrounded by many waters". There is no rival to her economically or militarily throughout history. What other nation/city can boast that? There is no other fitting that bill.

Great post Jake! Too bad it was ignored! There plenty of cities that are MORE hedonistic than NYC. Think about it, there are cities in the philipines where men are literally SELLING THEIR DAUGHTERS OVER THE INTERNET! I mean for christ's sake, all of the things mentioned are so general, they could be applied to any city in the world.

Yes but none of those cities are powerful enough to control other nations in the world financially or economically.

The great Babylon is a symbol of a great nation that have power and richness.

The nation or city lure others to want to be part of it forgetting their belifs and their roots.

You have to keep the ENTIRE LIST of things that Babylon is described with.

Babylon is drunk with the blood of the saints and prophets. Thats OT and NT

She sits on many waters. What are the waters? People, Nations, Ethnic groups

The kings of the earth screw around with her. Fornicate. She gives them what they want for money and they lift her up as a queen.

She is a commercial center.

She rides the beast with 7 heads and 10 horns
This means she was part of

Babylon
Assyria
Egypt

Persia
Greece
Rome

and finally Revived Rome (as per daniels vision of the statue)

So we know that she is both a religion and a physical place.
We also know that her religion has been around since the beginning and is drunk with the blood of the jews of BC and the christians of AC.

She is all pagan religion. Look at the pantheons of all those empires listed. They are exactly the same. The names were different because of the language but its all
Sungod
Sex goddess
the son of them

and the rest

Now look at Rome. Below you will have an artifact that contains Ishtar's symbol, and Baals, symbol, and Allahs symbol (crescent moon) all in one.
Its from Babylon. Babylon is the source of all pagan religion
Ishtar / Baal / Allah / Easter / Isis / Venus / Mary / Madonna / Queen of heaven

The sunburst or sunwheel is the symbol of baal. Lets look at the popes throne in the vatican
Shot of Popes Throne from above with sungod image and sunwheel at bottom

Now the close up of the sun image above the throne
close up of sungod throne

Finally two statues of the sungod Jupiter
Jupiter 1
Jupiter 2

The RCC is only part of it. Right now she is the most obvious.
listen in the news for this

INTERFAITH MEETING
INTERFAITH WORSHIP

Anything interfaith. God has never had anything to do with the rest. He punished the jews for including Ishtar, the Queen of Heaven. God is NOT an interfaith kinda God.

Babylon will be the unified INTERFAITH religion...and the city it will be based in is what you are looking for