Diamonds from pollution?

Those are fact, just read the rest of this enitre Thread, DeBeers owns the control on pricing of all stones...they OWN the market because of that.

Whether or not they legally own it doesn't matter, he who sets the price sets the rules.

Again I'd like you to find me an example of a Diamond company that sold its diamonds to people, as jewelry without passing it through the DeBeers Sightholdings....

Valhall, that is YOUR CHARGE...I expect it to be done by the time I get back.

Originally posted by FreeMason
No, Diamonds are worthless unless specifically marked, and marketed by DeBeers.

At most you could get from a diamond, is what a Pawn broker would pay for it, and most won't pay crap for a diamond that does not look legitimate.

Originally posted by FreeMason
Uh no Dragonrider, mr. Texas, who knows nothing outside of his geological area.

Diamonds are CONTROLLED by two organizations, one is DeBeers, the other is the international Diamond cutters. Only several locations in the world cut diamonds and they only recieve raw stones that are either mined by DeBeers, or are permissed by DeBeers.

DeBeers recieves almost all uncut stones and hoards them, and they also recieve almost all cut stones and marks them for sale.

You can not cut your own diamonds, my grandpa cut one, it was incredibly difficult for him to recieve the diamond.

Anything produced outside of this network is completely valuless, and might as well just be Industrial tools.

The idea of making jewelry out of manufactured Diamonds has been thought up by many, but DeBeers is well ahead of them to see to it that only mined diamonds are sold.

To try and introduce manufactured Diamonds into the Market, would be the equivalent of trying to rob the Federal Reserve Bank in New York. (Die Hard 3 is completely implausable.)

YOOHOO! Your own words are still hanging out there just as WRONG as they were when you first spoke them.

PLEASE try to stay on track FM.

FM:

I am awash with amazement... YOU started all of this by saying you can't get an uncut stone because DeBeers won't let them out in order to keep their control over the retail market. DUDE! You even went on to tell an eloquent tale of your sainted Grandad's (I mean NO sarcasm in that either I hold Family above ALL ELSE) troubles in gettin his hands on one.

NOW you are back pedalling saying your ONLY point was that DeBeers controls the market. Well DUH! Any moron knows that DeBeers controls the market but they DON'T control whether or not you and I can go get a stone and cut it ourselves and sell it for whatever we can get for it.

In a forum such as this the WORDS are EVERYTHING... Ideas prosper and malarky dies a miserable death.

As I stated I have been lurking here for quite a while, these folks have given you every opportunity to enjoin in conversation rather than attack with simplistic sarcasm and B.S.

I was lurking through your performance as military expert when you FINALLY came clean and confessd you are a 19 year old sophomore in college.

There is NOTHING WRONG with being a sophomore in college!

Why don't you try LEARNING from these more experienced, educated (face it man, they have FINISHED college and have been out in the REAL WORLD for years) Humans?

Honest debate, without fear of authoritarian retribution, is what makes our society the envy of the world.

A Gentleman/lady (one who relies on INTILECT rather than verbose sarcasm and or personal affronts) to debate with is what makes our society intillectually stimulating and ENJOYABLE...

PEACE...
Springer...

I wonder what would happen if someone were to disable Freemasons search engines for an evening.

It annoys me greatly that you wax lyrical on all your posts like you are the worlds foremost expert on everything since the beginning of time.
You refuse to take a beating and dig yourself larger holes that eventually get you banned, you, my dear fellow are what we call a fraud.

I swear...at every opportunity you shame your parents.

Amen

The bulk of the world's gem-
quality diamonds flow through three countries: Israel, Belgium and India. Israel and Belgium dominate sawable, or regular, medium, diamond shaped stones that are easily cut and faceted. India specializes in makeable diamonds, small cheaper stones that require
fine manual work that cannot be performed economically anywhere else. About seven in ten of the world's diamonds set in jewelry are cut and polished in India (due partly to their small size), which makes gems and jewelry its biggest foreign exchange earner at
US$3.3 billion, and employs some 600,000 people. Most of the workforce is comprised of farmboys from Saurashtra who earn tiny wages at small diamond-cutting sweatshops in the slums of Bombay, Surat and Ahmadabad. The stones these boys cut and polish are as small as 150 stones per carat, each of which has 56 facets. The largest customers for India's gems and jewelry are the US at 27% and Hongkong at 19%.
The world's diamond trade is dominated by the De Beers controlled Central Selling Organization (CSO) which is one of the world's most successful cartels (handling 70% of global rough diamond sales) and is responsible for maintaining stable markets and controlling prices. De Beers and Anglo American group have formed a tangled web of cross ownership and joint venture partnerships that reaches every corner of the world's diamond industry. For example, the Argyle mine is owned by Conzinc Riotinto of Australia Ltd. (CRA)(56.8%), Ashton Mining Group (38.2%) and the Western Australia Diamond Trust (5%). But 52.3%
of CRA is owned by Rio Tinto Zinc (RTZ) and 46% of Ashton is owned by the Malaysian Mining Corp. (MMC) which in turn is controlled by the Malaysian government. Minority holdings in RTZ and MMC are
in turn owned by Charter Consolidated, the European arm of the South African Anglo American and De Beers.
The De Beers cartel first came up against US anti-trust law during WWII when the US accused it of limiting its supply of industrial diamonds, critical to machine tools and therefore the war effort. Because US anti-trust law was ineffective against DeBeers' overseas operations, it aggressively pursued the development of synthetic diamonds which were first actually produced by General Electric (GE) in the 1950s. The world production of synthetic diamonds now outstrips mining three to one. The second time De
Beers came up against US anti-trust law was in February of last year when GE and De Beers Centenary AG, a De Beers affiliate in Switzerland, were indicted on charges of price fixing of industrial diamonds. The two companies account for nearly 80% of the world
sales of industrial diamonds. But the case was thrown out of court for lack of sufficient evidence when a whistleblower witness settled out of court, subpoenas for overseas documents were ignored, and only one (GE) out of four defendants showed up.

Thanks David, and no, I never started this saying that it's impossible to get an Uncut stone.

I started this correcting Dragonrider who said that the makers of these "manufactured Diamonds" should have kept it secret and sold their diamonds for a lot of money....which is impossible for ALL the reasons I've stated above.

I'll admit I was wrong about the uncut stones, in the 40s they weren't selling uncut stones like today, but the argument has always been MANUFACTURED STONES....which are completely worthless.

The only valuable diamonds are diamonds which in one form or another, pass through DeBeers. 80% pass through directly, the other 20% pass through under some form of lease or contract, usually due to DeBeer's large control on Loans that banks give to other Diamond mining corporations.

My two arguments have only been that, and that DeBeers runs the show, and no one has proven me wrong on either of those.

Just the Uncut stones issue, which is a side issue and has no real point in the argument.

Originally posted by Davidand is responsible for maintaining stable markets and controlling prices.

I felt like using David's own words against him.

I stated before that one of DeBeer's largest "muscles" is its ability to control the prices of the Diamond. The Above quote is concerning the CSO, a division of DeBeers.

This all goes back to what Dragonrider said, that these guys could sell their "easy to make diamonds" for big bucks Posted by Freemason

Once again, you speak about that which you do not know...

I posted this article for purely scientific interest. I stated, completely off the cuff, that maybe they could do better on the price if they kept confidential the fact that they were artificial in nature. I would point out that the article was where it was mentioned that these diamonds were of gem quality, and would likely be sold on the open market.

I also notice that you are very silent on my post regarding the UN charter and the World Diamond Council (who incidentally is who regulates diamond brokering, and DOES NOT INCLUDE DEBEERS ON ITS COUNCIL) and the link to it.

Honestly FM, how much reefer do you have to smoke to think you know as much as you think you do?

Now why did that last question you asked cause the image of Cheech and Chong and a comment about Labrador to get stuck in my head???

Val,

Actually Cheech and Chong may be a serious increase in Intellect

Since we have established that DeBeers A, is NOT designated by the World Diamond Council as a regulatory agency, and B, DeBeers is the big dog in the diamond field, we can make these assumptions:

The total amount of influence that DeBeers has on the diamond market is about the same that OPEC has on the oil industry. The only price controls they would be able to excercise on the diamond market would be by increasing or restricting diamond supply, creating artificial gluts and famines on the market.

However, when an outside supplier shows up on the market, that IS a danger to the big dogs, especially when manufactured diamonds are of limitless supply and will be far cheaper to produce.

Certainly DeBeers may try something very stupid like causing a glut on the market to artificially depress the price on diamonds. However, the success of this action would depend on the staying power of the artificial diamonds... keep in mind, such a maneuver is hurting DeBeers as much as the opposition. If they press such a maneuver for too long, they risk crashing the diamond market, and turning market conditions to favorable for the opposition (IE, lower prices than what DeBeers are worth, causing a price rebound to higher prices than they are worth, meanwhile the manufactured diamonds can still be produced for lower prices... suppliers then flock to the manufactured diamonds.)

You know what would be good? If all if you stopped using the so-called "authorative speech". It is a pure non-argument. There is so much stuff in this thread that is purely superfluous. When you make claims, be prepared to back them up with evidence from good reliable sources, preferably books if you can. I don't care if your grandfather cut an uncut stone himself, does that make you the expert?? I don't care if your father was a diamond broker and you yourself are at a loan institution. Neither will friends that are gemologists do any good. Back it up with good solid links from reliable source and deal with the evidence without going into a screaming contest. How old are you guys? And most importantly, be prepared that the other side might have a point, that why you probably are having the argument in the first place.

Make this place a bit more peaceful and scientific....