U.S. Suspends Israel from JSF Project.

IRAN, i seriously doubt that. Iran is an islamic state that sponsors the terrorsists that attack israel. Besides iran constantly keeps threatening to wipe israel off the map almost every fortnight.

Iran got their F-14's from america itself and not from israel

Originally posted by Taishyou
Anyways back to topic, Israel definitely isn't a trustworthy country from a US point of view to be involved in the JSF project. It has helped many rivals of the US in the past for cash, including Iran, China, etc. It smuggled spare F-14 parts to Iran.

I doubt Israel's smuggled stuff over to Iran..
NOBODY likes Israel in the middle east..even beyond..(Malaysia/Pakistan/Indonesia)

Its about time! I am so sick of the US bending over backward to help and support Israel when all they ever do is stab us in the back, stir up trouble, help our enemies, ect.

When I think of the over 3 billion dollars a year in aid we give the Israelis, who are a devloped, wealthy nation, it makes me sick. Thats 3 billion plus a year that could be used in Africa, devloping their infrastructure, battling AIDS, and ultimately, making them our friends. Im sure the Africans would show far more gratitude and trustworthieness than the Israelis, who seem to stab their great patron and only friend in the back with almost unholy glee.

I cant think of a damn thing that Israel has done for us, and our support for them reaps little reward. I hope that this is a first step in process of finally divorcing ourselves from an alliance that has cost us so much yet gained us misery.

I hope to see a trend!

Oh yes, Israel did smuggle F-14 spare parts to Iran. The US first sold Iran some F-14s during the Iran-Iraq war, but then Iran turned against the US after a revolution took place in the country, and the US refused to supply needed spare parts for their F-14s. It was Israel that smuggled the parts for Iran for some $$$. Of course, Israel denies it, but SOMEBODY must've supplied Iran with F-14 parts before they reverse engineered the parts themselves otherwise their F-14s would've fallen apart.

www.iiaf.net...

The number of Tomcats in service with Iran is reported as many as 60 aircrafts. Some of these parts also seem to have been smuggled into Iran by Israel

home.att.net...

In spite of the Western arms embargo, Iran seems to have been able to maintain a more-or-less steady supply of spare parts for its fleet of Tomcats, Phantoms, and F-5Es. Some of these parts seem to have been smuggled into Iran by collusion with Israel

^^ Agreed, but i thought israel and iran were enemies .Why would israel want to do stuff for iran

and coming back to israeli china tech deals, check this out.

The PL-8 infrared homing short-range air-to-air missile is a Chinese licensed production version of the Israeli Python-3.

China and Israel agreed on the deal of Python-3 technology and its licensed production in 1982, and the transfer began in September 1983.

The J-10 carrying the missile

source

PL-9
Apart from its control surfaces the PL-9 is almost identical to the Israeli Python-3, which was developed from the AIM-9L. The one major difference, according to information in Jane's All the World's Aircraft, is that the PL-9 has only about one-third the range of the Python 3.

China has improved upon the PL-9 by marrying it to an apparent copy of the Arsenel helmet sight from the R-73.

source : www.sinodefence.com...

PL-9D (DK-9)
The missile was a derived from the PL-9 short-range infrared-homing air-to-air missile (AAM), which was reported to be a Chinese copy of the Israeli Python-3.

The production of the PL-9D/DK-9 began in 1991, with a limited number in current service of the PLA and Pakistani Army.

The USA should be weary of Italy too :

PL-11 Medium-Range Air-to-Air Missile

The PLA began to approach the Italian Alenia Aspide missile technology in the late 1980s when China and Western countries started limited co-operations in the military fields against the threat of the Soviet Union. The Aspide missile was derived from the U.S. AIM-7E Sparrow missile with air-to-air, ship-to-air, and ground-to-air variants for air, naval, and ground service respectively.

Italy concluded a deal with China in the late 1980s that involves provision of the air-launched Aspide to the PLAAF. China received several small batches of missiles and relevant technology, which was initially used to improve the domestic HQ-61 surface-to-air missile.

In the early 1990s the 2nd Shanghai Bureau started a new medium-range AAM programme based on the HQ-61C surface-to-air missile, which has been improved with the Aspide technology. It was designated PL-11

source : www.sinodefence.com...

The US should not sell stuff to Pakistan as well :

The PL-4 is a Chinese copy of the U.S. AIM-7B Sparrow.(which it recieved from pakistan)

www.sinodefence.com...

No offence intended;no propoganda; only facts have been posted






[edit on 22-5-2005 by Stealth Spy]

Originally posted by chinawhite

Umm the WS-10A has already been tested.

One WS-10A (13,200kg class) turbofan was successfully tested on a J-11 testbed (currently belonging to CFTE) in June 2002. The first J-11B prototype powered by WS-10A flew in 2003

picture of j-11 with WS-10A
external image

i dont mean any offence but i found this :

The CAC is also trying to replace the Russian AL-31F with the indigenously developed WS-10A, which is said to be a Chinese copy of the AL-31FN.

www.sinodefence.com...

Originally posted by Stealth Spy
^^ Agreed, but i thought israel and iran were enemies .Why would israel want to do stuff for iran

Isreal was acting as a front for the US during Iran Contra.

www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org...

The F-4 parts specifically were sold by Israel as part of a deal in which Isreal supplied Iran in exchange for the right of Jews to emigrate.

www.washington-report.org...

-koji K.

[edit on 22-5-2005 by koji_K]

[edit on 22-5-2005 by koji_K]

Everyone check out this thread out too :

U.S. Suspends Arrow and THEL Collaboration with Israel

Originally posted by Stealth Spy

PL-9
Apart from its control surfaces the PL-9 is almost identical to the Israeli Python-3, which was developed from the AIM-9L. The one major difference, according to information in Jane's All the World's Aircraft, is that the PL-9 has only about one-third the range of the Python 3.

China has improved upon the PL-9 by marrying it to an apparent copy of the Arsenel helmet sight from the R-73.

source : www.sinodefence.com...

PL-9D (DK-9)
The missile was a derived from the PL-9 short-range infrared-homing air-to-air missile (AAM), which was reported to be a Chinese copy of the Israeli Python-3.

No offence intended;no propoganda; only facts have been posted

[edit on 22-5-2005 by Stealth Spy]

Stealthspy.

as the article mentions it makes no mention of the chinese copying the PL-9 from other sources.

and i changed one of the post you made by moving one of the BOLD things to where it should have been

Originally posted by chinawhite
as the article mentions it makes no mention of the chinese copying the PL-9 from other sources.

Read this : www.sinodefence.com...

....The PL-9D (also known as DK-9) is a mobile, low-altitude, surface-to-air missile system providing air defence to ground troops. The missile was a derived from the PL-9 short-range infrared-homing air-to-air missile (AAM), which was reported to be a Chinese copy of the Israeli Python-3....The production of the PL-9D/DK-9 began in 1991, with a limited number in current service of the PLA and Pakistani Army

now what do you say ?? here is your chinese source and the facts

and i changed one of the post you made by moving one of the BOLD things to where it should have been

What are you talking about ?? Can you edit my posts or what ??

[edit on 29-5-2005 by Stealth Spy]

During the series of airborne confrontations, a Chinese jet crashed after colliding with a U.S. spy plane, killing the Chinese pilot and disabling the U.S. plane. The incident sparked a bitter diplomatic row as China detained the American crew for 11 days.

Had Chinese fighter pilots been given the order to fire, they could have brought down the U.S. planes with Israeli Python III derrived missiles.

U.S. technology given to the Israelis in the form of the Sidewinder missile was used in the development of the Python, said Larry Wortzel, former U.S. Army attache in Beijing and now a military analyst at the Heritage Foundation.

U.S. defense chiefs say Israel sold China the missiles without informing the United States.

“Generally speaking, we’re not in favor of such capable weapons systems being proliferated to a variety of nations around the world,” Rear Adm. Craig Quigley said in a Pentagon briefing last year. “That’s a good missile, and its capabilities are considerable.”

www.ifamericansknew.org...

“The Israelis wouldn’t be where they are today if they didn’t have the Americans behind them,” said Bjorn Hagelin, an arms sales researcher at the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute.

source

Six years ago, U.S. government reports accused Israel of illegally transferring U.S. technology from the largely U.S.-funded Lavi fighter plane program to China. China's new F-10 fighter jet is said to be nearly identical to the Lavi.

Analysts said that in addition to reaping profits and lowering defense production costs, Israel believes arms sales to China raises its influence with Beijing and gains it vital intelligence about its enemies, with whom China does business.


"Israel ranks second only to Russia as a weapons system provider to China and as a conduit for sophisticated military technology" according to a recent report by the U.S.-China Security Review Commission, a panel established by Congress to examine security and economic relations between the two countries.

"Recent upgrades in target acquisition and fire control, probably provided by Israeli weapons specialists, have enhanced the capabilities of the older guided missile destroyers and frigates" in the Chinese navy's inventory, it said.

The commission, cited Israel as a supplier to Beijing of radar systems, optical and telecommunications equipment, drones and flight simulators.

"Israel has established itself as an important exporter of high-technology niche weapons containing more sophisticated technology than what is provided by Russia," it said.

More...

Israel, China Celebrate 10 Years of Ties

Israel-China Business Cooperation Conference
....China is the major target of Israeli business in next decades. Israel has wide variety of interests in the Chinese market. Its key interests are high-tech, biotech, homeland security, telecommunication, information technology, environmental protection, agriculture and infrastructure. He hopes to expand cooperation with China in these fields. Israel hopes to make "a little contribution" to China's preparation .....

i think we can safetly say, isreal, are been unappreciative, of the help theyre been given, even worse, the fact that theyre men not to long ago were still killing innocent kids, now they want to get rid of their only ally, america, theyre not the smartest of people.....

This is good news that we suspended cooperation on these projects.

o well...... Poor guys lost a portion of their free military toys.

This is good news.

-Reason


[edit on 2-6-2005 by REASON]