Malachy Prophecy, Soon to see number 112 (5 years possibly)

Hey, EM, *thank you* for limiting the scope of the discussion by qualifying it with the premise that as we discuss St. Malachy's prophecy, we msut do so on the assumption it is true. By doing so helps limit the drift of the thread.

I agree with Ryanp5555 -- I have not seen the prediction that Benedict's papacy will be short-lived, though one doesn't need the gift of prophecy to figure that out. Having said that, I would say 10 years at most. (I'm not inclined to be locked in by the 2012 Mayan calendar thing.)

As far as whether #112 has been added or not, I would bet it's the real deal. I have no way to prove or disprove, but my gut says it's true. Regardless, if we take the premise that the prophesy is true, you have only one real conclusion to draw: time is running short.

However, since the discussion about Antichrist has come up, I want to point to this story from the BBC in March.

news.bbc.co.uk...

According to the story, one of the Cardinals believes Antichrist is already here.
"Cardinal Giacomo Biffi, 71, said that the modern Antichrist, identified in the Book of Revelation as a seven-headed beast, was most likely now disguised as a philanthropist supporting creeds like vegetarianism, animal rights or pacifism, or advocating dialogue with Orthodox or Anglican believers."

1. If anyone would be on top of figuring out who Antichrist is, the Vatican would.
   
2. To be a philanthropist of any sort requires money...lots of money.
   
3. A creed like "vegetarianism" knocks out Ted Turner (who raises buffalo for his restaurant chain).
   

As far as the a pope being the Antichrist, I say no. By the very definition, the Antichrist can't have anything to do with Christ. Period. He (or she), I bet, will be selling the idea of moral relativism. And the stage is set in the Western world for such a sale to be easily made.

I will take a shot at this with last name/age/reasons and the odds:


Felici (85) Born near Rome 20-1 due to age

Angelini (88) Born in Rome 25-1 due to age

Turkson (56) First name Peter and studied /traveled extensively to Rome. 15-1 although a very intelligent man, I believe he may be of too dark a complexion.

Shirayanagi (76) First name Peter 10-1

Rubiano Saenz (72) First name Pedro 7-1 being a Latin American may be a plus

Erdo (52) First name Peter 10-1 relatively unknown

Ruini (74) Vicar General of Rome 3-1 if the current Pope lasts 5 years or less, odds go down longer the current Pope lives.

I see no one else who stands out, I went with the basis of the last Pope being "Peter the Roman" and not "Petrus". If you want to go with the Term "Petrus" I still give odds on favorite to Ruini.



list of current cardinals and bio's for those interested:

www.catholic-pages.com...




[edit on 21-4-2005 by RickinVa]

[edit on 21-4-2005 by RickinVa]

[edit on 21-4-2005 by RickinVa]

[edit on 21-4-2005 by RickinVa]

Originally posted by SingleMalt
if we take the premise that the prophesy is true, you have only one real conclusion to draw: time is running short.

What a Rey Of Sunsine you are!

Originally posted by Ryanp5555
Not to mention this one little detail: How the HELL does Ratzinger fulfill the Glory of an Olive prophecy. And don't give me the branch of the church name resembles his name and their nickname is Olivatians BS.

I'll give it a go, without refering to Ratzinger's chosen name of Benedict.

The former Cardinal Ratzinger (or should we say "the Cardinal formerly known as Ratzinger"? ) was known primarily for his work on ecumenism: that is, the reunification of the various Christian churches. John Paul II started this in earnest in his Papacy, and, Ratzinger helped with this process. In his first official statement since his election, Benedict XVI (or, as I have seen elsewhere, the shorthand is B16) has stated that he wants to move forward on reunification. The English version of the speech can be found here: www.cwnews.com... It's a long speech, but near the end, B16 uses several paragraphs to outline his desire to see a unified Church.

No one needs to look too far into history to see that the division within the Christian Church has caused great stife. Those of you in England only need to look to the Catholic and Protestant conflicts in your own country. To move towards and succeed with unification would be a grand achievement of peace within the Christian fold. Thus meriting the title "Glory of the Olive."

One can only wait to see if this prophecy is fulfilled in that manner. However, *if* someone finds the old coat of arms for Ratzinger's family, and *if* an olive tree or some such is found as part of the armory, then we have a tangible piece of evidence that points to fulfillment.

Originally posted by Rocky003

Originally posted by djohnsto77
I don't see him lasting more than about 4 years, that'd get us half way though the tribulation, when the forces of evil are truly unleashed, and still get to the return of Christ at 2012.

This Guy Is Filled With the Most Doom and Gloom On this Site!

LOL..makes you want to stay home in bed and pull the covers over your head and just wait for the end

Um, Digitalgrl -

The prophecies of St. Malachi ARE in the Bible. Look in the Apocrypha, under The Book of Malachi.

(It's after the Book of Daniel).

-wD

Glory of the Olive may or may not refer to the man himself, but rather circumstances which occur right before or while he is Pope. Do not forget that there is an Olive party in the Italian government that may play a direct/indirect role in the prophecy.

Originally posted by RickinVa
Glory of the Olive may or may not refer to the man himself, but rather circumstances which occur right before or while he is Pope. Do not forget that there is an Olive party in the Italian government that may play a direct/indirect role in the prophecy.

Good point, RickinVa. In another thread I posted a link to the complete set of Malachy prophecies with the explanations for each. Here's the link: truecatholic.bizland.com...

Your point is well taken because of certain popes that reigned at certain times. For example, Pius VII is given the description Aquila Rapax, which means "A rapacious eagle." The explanation for how the prophecy is fufilled is given as: "The Pope's pontificate was overshadowed by Napoleon whose emblem was the eagle."

Another example: Pope Benedict XV. The description for his papacy: Religio Depopulata, or "Religion laid waste." The explanation: "The years of Pope Benedict's reign were overshadowed by the death of millions of Christians in World War I. 1917 saw the beginning of the Russian revolution which brought about the end of religious life in this formerly most Christian country."

So, as you point out, we may have to wait to see the how the description fits.

Originally posted by WeBDeviL
Um, Digitalgrl -

The prophecies of St. Malachi ARE in the Bible. Look in the Apocrypha, under The Book of Malachi.

(It's after the Book of Daniel).

-wD

Those are two different Malachi's my friend. One lived during the 12th century, the other before Jesus lived. So, Digital Girl, that isn't true

Originally posted by RickinVa
Glory of the Olive may or may not refer to the man himself, but rather circumstances which occur right before or while he is Pope. Do not forget that there is an Olive party in the Italian government that may play a direct/indirect role in the prophecy.

Yes, the prophecy could refer to anything that happens during his papacy, not necessarily even having much to do with him personally. If the end is near, the false peace of the antichrist will be upon us soon, before the rise of the next Pope Petrus Romanus. Since the olive branch is symbolic of peace, it makes perfect sense.

I dont get it......if Saint Malachy did prophesie.....and he stopped at 111th of whom will be Pope from his time, then why do so many people think that there will be a ''Petros romanos'' seated?

If we go by prophecy.....let the prophecy bethat of Saint Malachy........and not what is not wriiten ....

There is a prophecy that says that ROME WILL BE NO MORE....
And who will be seated?

Glory be to God..
helen..

Originally posted by Enigmatic_Messiah
I've started this thread because I believe the person who is to be number 112 is noticeable right now and would love to hear the different opinion on who it is & why based on the prophecy of St. Malachy.

All Responders to this thread must base their speculation on the assumption that the prophecy is true!

E_M: First, I am under the assumption that No. 112 will not be the Antichrist. Some on the board (not this thread) have suggested that such will be the case. I heartily disagree for may reasons.

Now, to your question. Can we pick a couple of candidates for number 112. That's a tall order to fill. Here's why: It's reasonable to assume that B16 is going to have the opportunity to elevate a few Archbishops to the level of Cardinal. Soooo, the field to review is not limited to the current College of Cardinals. I can think of a few Archbishops in America that are certainly Cardinal material who would be very, very popable (or whatever that Italian word for "popable" is). The first one outside of the current College that comes to my mind is Archbishop Charles Chaput of the Archdiocese of Denver. As for why: He's been a strong defender of the orthodox view of Catholicism, yet very compassionate. He is very faith-filled. Having met him when I was much younger (and before he even became a bishop), even then I was struck by his presence. I have met many bishops, many priests, many religious in the US. None has compared to Chaput.

Originally posted by Enigmatic_Messiah All Responders to this thread must base their speculation on the assumption that the prophecy is true!

I must ask, why would you want to limit responders to only those in agreement? Is it that you sincerely hope the prophecy is true and therefore only wish to find agreement?

Oh boy!

Let the guy( Pope) live his life....he is yet NOT(edit) gone and many are trying to find the 112th Pope ......
We dont know yet of anything .......firstly we should wait and see what he means by PEACE......I read that he thought of Saint Benedictine of the early century .....and Saint Benedectine ...
quote//nerable Benedict Biscop, Abbot of Wearmouth (689-690)
He came from a noble Northumbrian family in Britain,
and was tonsured a monk in 653 at Lerins in Gaul. In 669 he was made Abbot of the Monastery of Saints Peter and Paul in Canterbury.
He traveled to Rome in 671 to be instructed in monastic practice according to the Rule of Saint Benedict (of Nursia).
Returning to Northumbria he established two new monasteries, the first to follow St Benedict's Rule in the British Isles.
He went to Rome once again in 678-679, this time bringing back the archcantor of St Peter's, who taught the monks of St Benedict's monasteries the chant and liturgical practices used in Rome.
  Under the holy abbot's guidance, these monasteries became flourishing centers of Christian worship, scholarship and art.
The Venerable Bede (May 26) was one of his disciples. Saint Benedict reposed in peace in 689 or 690, having greatly strengthened the Church and the Christian faith in Britain.
So if this Pope has similar thought to Saint Benedict of the 6th century, then all will go well......for a short time anyway..
Glory be to God and His Saints....
helen

[edit on 4/21/2005 by helen670]

The st malachy prophesies are not in the bible. The apocrapha is also not the bible it is a seperate book that the catholic church uses.

There is a book of malachi in the bible but he is not the ST. malachi who made the prophesies about the popes that we are talking about in the thread. the st. malachi that made the pope prophesies lived in the 12th century. and he was a catholic munk so he couldnt have put anything in the bible. The malachi who wrote the book of malachi in the Bible (not apocrapha) lived before Jesus' time. I think ryanp5555 also pointed that out in the thread.

Not trying to be rude or anything. Just thought i would let you know.

Kind Regards,
Digital Grl

[edit on 10/01/2004 by DigitalGrl]

Has it occurd to anyone that maybe God has changed his mind? I mean it has been 2,000 years since revelation was revealed to john on patmos. It could have been in the works but maybe isn't going to happen now. or maybe it describes the fall of rome in 400 A.D.

Originally posted by Trustnone
Has it occurd to anyone that maybe God has changed his mind? I mean it has been 2,000 years since revelation was revealed to john on patmos. It could have been in the works but maybe isn't going to happen now. or maybe it describes the fall of rome in 400 A.D.

The crazy thing about God is that he would know before hand if he was gonna change his mind, so why would he speak of it?

originally by Lanotom

Well since there is speculation that the 112th pope was an addition to the original list and not one that was made by the prophet then we are on the last one.

You are correct that the initial prophecy was to end at 111, the 112’Th was added supposedly by the Jesuits. helen670, why would they add this additional pope, because they want to hide something about the end times.

If you study the three schools of end time prophecy you will find that 2 of the 3 also were put in place by the Jesuit Order, only one came from an outside source, and that is Historicism. Futurism, the most widely know and pushed today, and Pretinism (sp, and too tired to look it up), were both made to throw off the protestant reformers from associating the station of the Pope as the Little Horn of Daniel. IMHO, this is the end time deception that Paul tells us Christians will fall under in the last days.

Futurism sets a clearly defined set of event/signs that can be followed to the second coming, which is unbiblical to begin with. In order to get Christians to receive the mark, they must hide what it is, and they do this by making people believe that the end times are to come at a future point in time that we have not yet reached. This would include adding an additional pope to this list, so people accept the mark because they believe that the mark cannot be here yet as the signs of Futurism, and the Prophecies Fatima, Malachy, and others have not come to fruition yet.


PS...
SomewhereinBetween See I don’t just pick on you about futurism...(c;
Sorry I have not had time to reply to your long post on the other thread yet, this is related to that topic as well however...




[edit on 4/22/2005 by defcon5]

Originally posted by janesquest
One last note, I truly feel that the Catholics should apoligize to the rest of the world for this Pope. So let me start, I am so sorry our Cardinals did this.

Speak for yourself, Jane. I, for one, am pleased with Benedict's election.

Originally posted by janesquest
The church has said that the name a Pope (shuddering) picks is important to his legacy, so I researched the Benedict popes. ... I feel that there was no outright connection to Glory of the Olives, so he picked Benedict to force a fit.

There have been several reasons given for his pick of Benedict, other than "forcing" the fit to prophecy. I suspect the name has little to do with Malachy's prophecy. In recent articles on just that subject, it's noted that Ratzinger is a "Benedict" in his ways, that his life is modeled on St. Benedict. George Weigel, biographer of JPII, has a great piece here.

Originally posted by janesquest
I feel this Pope somehow forced his Papacy. When he was standing on the balcony looking out at the crowd, there was a look in his eyes. I wish I could put an emotion to it, but it made me uneasy.

He forced his papacy? Come on! This article, from yesterday quotes a friend of Benedict XVI as saying that as recently as Christmas, the then Cardinal Ratzinger was talking of retirement. Do you really think that a 78 year old Cardinal in the Curia *wants* to be the head of the Church? Yikes! Ask any *bishop* his feelings of being elevated from parish priest to bishop -- it's a huge undertaking!

As for the "look in his eyes." I, too, was struck by a couple of the still photos. But when I watch video, that "look" doesn't come to the forefront. It's a factor of age, and I suspect that Benedict will be having any cosmetic surgery performed. Query: Does a pope *need* to be photogenic? Take a look at photos of Supreme Court Justice David Suter from when he was first appointed to the bench. He looks like what one would expect axe-murder to look like!

Originally posted by janesquest
The only thing I can think of is that the olive branch stands for peace, and maybe in this papacy he will broker peace somewhere, somehow. I guess that remains to be seen.

My bet, as I've said in another post in this thread, is on the his work toward ecumenism and the unification of the Christian Church, as started by JPII.

Originally posted by janesquest
I do alot of genealogy and adoption searches for people so I thought let me look up the last name. Other than Bavaria I can not find Ratzinger anywhere.

Is that a hobby or a job? Either way, it's a cool thing to do. Good luck on finding anything related to a coat of arms. *If* you do find the family armory, please post an image!

"When the media starts scoffing is when I start to look closer..."

Good Morning America was dismissing the prophecy (they even used the word prophecy...). They used vague and dissmissive, as well as incorrect, information regarding the prophecy and it's Latin "nicknames" regarding John Paull II and Benebict XVI.

The was a short sentence mentioning the end of days and couple of quick jibes from the anchors.

The pot begins to stir...