The New Pope

this was a topic that had to be brought up..

but WHY bring in a pope whom served in the Nazi party?

HE was in the hitler youth, then briefly served in an Anti Aircraft unit..
NOW... any male from germany from that time period im my opinion, was a Nazi... and still is a Nazi....
They allowed hitler to come to power, and they cheered and supported him while he paraded his army about.

the last pope, worked so hard in his early years CONDEMMING nazi's, and the haulocaust.
His parents were killed if i remmeber rightly, and he was in poland during the war.

Just seems like a big turn around, and one that i can see inflaming a situation.
The young radicals now a days who still support hitlers ways, will see this as a sign, see it as meaningful.

Also, he's 78?... if this is the last pope before dog poo hits the fan, we dont have many years with this guy i predict. Last pope lasted till 84, this guys only 6yrs of that number. how much longer would he live?

Truth is stranger than fiction. His own brother doesnt beleive his brother got the papacy because of his beginnings. See Drudge report for this story.

Things keep getting weirder and weirder, dont they?

Dude i'm no fan of BenedictXVI, he's too conservative, but i'm no catholic so it doesnt affect me none... BUT

You cant hold it against him that he was in the Hitler youth... it was compulsury... and he either served in an Anti-Aircraft regiment or be arrested and sent to a concentration camp... if you were there you probably wouldnt have done anything either.... the party did great things for Germany, but terrible things for some minority groups (and in turn the rest of Europe)... you werent in Germany at the time, thus you cannot judge his actions.

True, I agree with what your saying.

But it is not in human nature too find the soilders who killed the people, the NAZI Party did those atrocities, the NAZI party killed millions of defenseless people.

And your wrong... If my country ' New zealand ' started invading country after country, killing thousands with no regard for life.. I would not follow them just because im pushed into it.

If I was as holy as the pope is considered to be, if i had ONE shred of human decency I would defect, go to jail anything other than be sent to kill innocence for one mans crusade.

Out off all the cardinals to be picked, with his Ailing health and his age, why did they pick a former NAZI member?

I wasnt in germany at the time your right, but im my time now.. I can see what the nazi's did, not only for europe, but TOO the world, and i still say no person from that era whom lived in Germany deserves to be leader of 1.1 Billion people.

Ok look at it his way... NZ is a stable country... NZ doesnt have a proud military tradition and isnt a very Nationalistic country...

Germany was... Germany had an embarrasing defeat In WW1, which led to a while series of economical, and political strife... by the TIme the NAZi's came to power Germany was nothing, a struggling state... Then comes Hitler... he brings the country up from rock bottom and restores the strength and glory which the nation previously had...

Now imagine you live on this country, and you see this man who managed to restpre your countrys pride... you family is well off, and your country is once again respected in the world game... sure the funny guy with a wierd mostauche does some bad things, but in the context of the time and place, they could be overlooked... then your country is at war and about to resotre its glory... i'm sure anyone would have done the same...

Everything is clear in retrospect... remember that. At the time the Germans needed a strong leader... Hitler was that leader and they flocked to him coz they did their counry a world of good...

regardless of the time, or the position of the germans post ww1 and pre ww2 it is no excuse to invade other countries, round up the minorities and murder them.

there is just no justification.

They were down and out after ww1 because of what they were fighting for wasnt the good thing.

did Japan decide to invade the world and murder millions after hiroshima/nagasaki? id say they were beaten and had pride demolished also.

ITs a pitty we dont have any ww2 vets on this site because i would LOVE to hear there opiniona bout a former nazi now the pope.

Looks like we need to agree to disagree on this one...

But i think to condemn an entire generation of Germans is a bit harsh...

I dont like the new pope, i can already see his consevartism is going to cause alot of problems worldwide, but hey i'm no catholic.

HE WAS NOT A #ING NAZI. HE WAS FORCE LIKE COUNTLESS OTHERS INTO HITLERS YOUTH. HE DESPISED NAZIS BACK THEN AND STILL DESPISES THEM NOW. SO STOP SAYING # LIKE THIS.

He was in the Hitler Youth, and SERVED '' SERVED '' in the Anti Aircraft unit

there's not a lot more he needs to do to QUALIFY.

forced.. why are there germans from those dayz, who NEVER served in the army, or the hitler youth,

if he dispised it soo much he wouldnt of served.

During WW2 the Vatican stood silent has the NAzi's slaughtered thousands of jews, as this was happening Cardinnal Ratzinger was serving the Nazi party on this savage persecution. He also served on a POW camp wich to me means he must have been a pretty good SOB, or the nazi party wouldnt trust him to guard war prisioners.

A couple of years later, the Vatican finally appologise to the Jewish people for doing nothing to help and stop the Nazi persecution.

Now they elected for Pope a Cardinal that served as a nzi soldier, and next week if im not wrong it will be the Holocaust's anniversary.

Nice ...very nice...

Also , Cardinal Ratzinger is very "close" to Opus Dei, just as John Paul II was. Opus Dei is a "private" cult inside the Vatican cult. Opus Dei is connected to the DAVinci Code. the DaVinci Code claims thats the "REAL" jews are caucasian, probably French..... again another way of demonizing the Jewsih People...

Round and Round it goes... where it stops noone knows..........

Coincidences???

Ratzinger was drafted into the army at the very end of the war, he dodged it until then.
He deserted the army the first chance he got, btw.

I am not a fan of his coservative policies, but you can't brand someone a nazi because of a few months in the army 60 years ago.

By definition
NAZI = A member of the National Socialist German Workers' Party

He doesnt lose this title simply because he is pope.

He served in the army, and the hitler youth, like i said many others defected and didnt serve while living in germany. There had to be some sort of personal acceptance to serve in the nazi party.

Originally posted by BaastetNoir
Round and Round it goes... where it stops noone knows..........

Coincidences???

Coincidences? No... making connections from nowhere? Yes.

If your referring to Dan Browns novel the Davinci Code... then you need to realise its a novel... a good novel at that... but still a novel... and it doesnt claim the real Jews are in france... but that Jesus' direct ancestry resides in France. As for the other 'coincidences'. The fact he reluctantly joined the hitler youth (Pope Benedict XVI that is) and the army is enough for me to say he, like any other German at the time, was mislead and doing what was demanded of german citizens at the time... I'm no religious apologist and the factt he vatican ignored the holocaust is disgusting... but you cant go attacking religion and the pope with any straw you can grasp... coz that in the end undermines the legitimate downfalls of religious institutions.

Global disorder... he did defect... and he resisted joining untill he couldnt anymore... he was DRAFTED into both...

[edit on 21-4-2005 by specialasianX]

Originally posted by paperclip
Ratzinger was drafted into the army at the very end of the war, he dodged it until then.
He deserted the army the first chance he got, btw.

I am not a fan of his coservative policies, but you can't brand someone a nazi because of a few months in the army 60 years ago.

Desertors dont get jobs in P.O.W. camps... anyway ppl are free to believe has they wish... if the man was a desertor wouldnt he have problems serving as a Cardinal in Germany?

Even if he repented of what he did, I still think it is a slap in the face of the Jewish people to put someone that participated in the Holocaust as the Leader of a so called "Christian" Church. Specially about a week b4 the anniversary of the Holocaust... they had plenty of other ppl to elect.

Originally posted by specialasianX

Originally posted by BaastetNoir
Round and Round it goes... where it stops noone knows..........

Coincidences???

Coincidences? No... making connections from nowhere? Yes.

If your referring to Dan Browns novel the Davinci Code... then you need to realise its a novel... a good novel at that... but still a novel... and it doesnt claim the real Jews are in france... but that Jesus' direct ancestry resides in France. As for the other 'coincidences'. The fact he reluctantly joined the hitler youth (Pope Benedict XVI that is) and the army is enough for me to say he, like any other German at the time, was mislead and doing what was demanded of german citizens at the time... I'm no religious apologist and the factt he vatican ignored the holocaust is disgusting... but you cant go attacking religion and the pope with any straw you can grasp... coz that in the end undermines the legitimate downfalls of religious institutions.

Global disorder... he did defect... and he resisted joining untill he couldnt anymore... he was DRAFTED into both...

[edit on 21-4-2005 by specialasianX]

ok lets go by parts... the term "REAL JEWS" attempts to determine that only the SUPPOSE descendents of Jesus could be of the GODLY SEED, and that is because the RCC as donne a very good job to brand the ppl of Jersalem as Christ - Killers... Also the native ppl in France are WHITE, and that is another way of saying that ONLY the White ppl can be "truly of god", because they cary "Jeus' genes"...and thats why its such a Popular ideolgy. The DaVinci code is NOT a simple novel, its a "novel" with an intent. The intent of reviving hate against Jews, you may see it just as a novel, but i dont. I also don't think that that Ratzinger beeing close to Opus Dei, as Opus Dei is close to The "novel" DaVinci Code, is a connection made out of nothing.

Now you can turn your head to the side and pretent you dont see it, fine with me... When Hitler started ppl also thought he would be nothing, and when the world woke up it was close to TOO LATE.

but off course, i must be just one those nuts screaming "CONSPIRACY,....THE SKY IS FALLING...ect. ect. etc"

Tho chose a cardinal that was a Nazi to be a Pope when you have PLENTY OF OTHER PPL TO chhose from is to say the least "BAD TASTE", and to me its much more than that !

At the same time Hitler had is "SS YOUTH", my family had to avoid a similar thing called "The SALAZARIAN YOUTH", and they did avoid it with at the risk of ending on the balck list. There is a way to refuse, at your own risk.

[edit on 21-4-2005 by BaastetNoir]

Having read the Davinci code i see it as more critical towrds Catholics... but suppose everything is a conspiracy against Jews, right?

i still see it as your pulling staws out of thin air here mate... Hey I'm no fan of the church and i can see i wont like Benedict XVI either, but if your going to judge every german alive then thats a whole bunch of racism in my eyes... i know alot of elderly people who were in Germany at the time of the NAZI's, some were in the Army etc... they are honest good people... i liken it to people who blindly follow their leaders nowadays... But i can see many people will just find anything they can to criticize the church, and as critical as i am of the church, i really dont see the fact Benedict is German as any reason to hate him.

No one said they HATED the man himself.
They said that its plain WRONG and disrespectful ' in my eyes' to have a FORMER nazi as leader of 1.1 Billion catholics.

As said before, your members managed to AVOID the youth service,
why couldnt the pope?
Why did he go along with it LONg enough to be ni the anti aircraft and then in charge of a camp.

Sounds to me as if his military career was starting to take off..
Pitty the germans surrended..
I wonder what the pope did when the germans surrended? Did he cheers and praise the lord that he is no longer under the Nasty NAZI spell, or did he hang his head in shame and say damn, we disgraced the fuher

Let us call a spade a spade here and stop apologizing for Ratzinger. This man has flitted from country to country over the last 20 years preaching moral relativisim to those whose shoes he cannot shine, while publishing his own self-apologizing epistle for his membership in the Nazi youth services.

Now I fully understand that adolescence and even an adult under 30 years old needs some leeway for the decisions they make, but this man holds a position that the RCC claims is at the appointment of God himself. At the age of 12, Ratzinger enrolled in the Traunstein seminary, and no doubt were he to be asked, he would say that by that age, it was his calling from his Christ. There is therefore no confusing him with his actions at 16, where he received the call to join the Nazi Youth movement and turned his back on his God, if he believed in his deity.

Ratzinger had a choice like all other German youths, some of whom decided it was better to be martyred for their beliefs than join Hitler's party, and gain membership instead in the Edeilweiss Pirates resistance movement, a youth oriented organization which literally gave the SS fits for their anti-Nazi stance. But no! Ratzinger instead, forsook his God, took the easy way out, then decided to defect. This man who just prior to April 19, wore a red garb for decades signifying that he was willing to die for his God cannot be forgiven for his eschewing 4 years of devotion to that same calling, and should be strongly condemned for pointing his moralistic finger at others.

hmm people's main concern over the new pope seems to be because he was a german during ww2. they quote that any german is a nazi because they let him rule. as i remember it hittler DID NOT have the majority of the voteing. he seized power when bismark died, by burning the reichstag and declareing marshal law. on top of that the new pope would have been much to young to vote regaurdless, so he personaly had nothing to do with putting hittler in power.

you say that he should not be even considered for pope due to his being a natzi and therefore a racist. this in itself is a form of raceisim is it not? oh he is a german who served in germany's army in ww 2 so he is a racist, and therefore against jews automaticaly, yup that indeed is racisim at it's best. as i stated in another thread if he had deserted from the alied forces you would say that he was a traiter and a chicken and should not be pope. but then again the alies were in the right and germany was in the wrong. yup raceisim is at hand here.

others say that he should have defected so as not to serve. how would you like it (for those americans esp.) if bush called a draft and people ran to canada again? i supose that they would be traiters, and be despised as cowards and wimps.:shk: we are talking about someone from a country that had a strong military history just like the states of today. also while jews were despised and mistreated, i would remind you that most did not know just how bad it realy was untill wars end.

why should the catholic church even care how the non catholic world cares about it's pope? religion should not be swayed by society. if they feel he is the best for the job that is for them to decide now isn't it.:bnghd: why should they consider that it is close to the aniversary of the holocaust? they are not jews after all.why is there so much concern for the jews? stalian and the soviats killed many more. the japanese commited their own autrocities but it seems that the jews were the only ones remembered about. i am sure that there was no disrespect intended. but it is the catholic church that is effected, it has nothing whatsoever to do with the jewish faith.

there is apsolutely nothing disrespectfull about the cathlic pope haveing werved under the natzi regime. as far as i know he WAS NOT A PART OF THE NATZI PARTY. he was a born german citizen. that is it.

i do not believe in everything that the catholic church teaches, but do not search for such racist reasonings to down their choice of leader. i saw no report of him killing jews, working at a death camp or participateing in the antijew hitsqauds. if you must find reasons for dissent then find real reasons to be against him. don't be racist about it.

well, this guys main agenda is to unite the cristian religions around the world. A few years ago he made a statement along the lines that any christian church that is not catholic is fraudulent.

My belief is there are powers at play trying to force the hand of revelation, attempting to fullfill prophecy in their own warped way.. yet it is bizarre as trying to fullfill prophecy, they are actually doing just that! so anyway, it is interesting.

The thing that bugs me is that this dude actually looks evil! I saw him at the previous popes funeral, and said, that guy looks evil. Now he is the new pope.