Defending the need for adherence to Old Testament commandments under the new covenant of Christ

originally posted by: nugget1
a reply to: randomuser2034

You're free to believe as you wish, as am I. Please shun me.

Agreed. I have always tried to show you respect, as you roll your eyes and bring up false accusations, and the most absurd claims. And I have always remained tactful, respectful, and defended your onslaught of untruths, and misconceptions with God's word, and a gentle manner.

originally posted by: randomuser2034

originally posted by: nugget1
a reply to: randomuser2034

You're free to believe as you wish, as am I. Please shun me.

Agreed. I have always tried to show you respect, as you roll your eyes and bring up false accusations, and the most absurd claims. And I have always remained tactful, respectful, and defended your onslaught of untruths, and misconceptions with God's word, and a gentle manner.

I would expect nothing less from you than to play the victim. If you can't convince people by deflection and obfuscation to join your cult religion it just means the rest of the world is wrong anf only JW's are right.

If you're really such a respectrul and 'gentle' guy you'll stop to proselytizing to me. You obviously know you're going to get push-back when you directly respond to me and that's why you do it; to get on your preacy soapbox.

"Matthew 23:15 - “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you travel land and sea to win one proselyte, and when he is won, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves.”

originally posted by: nugget1

originally posted by: randomuser2034

originally posted by: nugget1
a reply to: randomuser2034

You're free to believe as you wish, as am I. Please shun me.

Agreed. I have always tried to show you respect, as you roll your eyes and bring up false accusations, and the most absurd claims. And I have always remained tactful, respectful, and defended your onslaught of untruths, and misconceptions with God's word, and a gentle manner.

I would expect nothing less from you than to play the victim. If you can't convince people by deflection and obfuscation to join your cult religion it just means the rest of the world is wrong anf only JW's are right.

If you're really such a respectrul and 'gentle' guy you'll stop to proselytizing to me. You obviously know you're going to get push-back when you directly respond to me and that's why you do it; to get on your preacy soapbox.

"Matthew 23:15 - “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you travel land and sea to win one proselyte, and when he is won, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves.”

I don't mind answering questions, even when they are belligerent in nature, as you admit. Because, you see, you aren't the only one here or reading this. All one has to do is go back and see I was just explaining things from the Bible. I wasn't insulting or proselytizing. Just sharing knowledge I have acquired over the years. Anyway, even God's spirit can move you to reason on things later, when you're trying to sleep or something. One never knows how God's spirit works.

a reply to: randomuser2034

I don't mind answering questions

Nice try. I never asked you any questions.

a reply to: FlyInTheOintment

I mean for this following question to be rhetorical, you can answer it or not as you please:
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Must a person read The Book of Enoch and hold firm to a flat-Earth cosmology in order to be saved?
---------
For background I just have to say that many people at many times have made lists of comparisons of the Ten Words of Exodus 20 with the New Testament authors. Many of these people have never read Enoch or held to a flat-Earth cosmology. It would be a shame if they missed out on some wonderful blessing thereby, even though they lived up to those words to the best of their abilities.

I'm thinking now of the book I had back in the mid '70s, printed by the Branch Davidians, which gave instructions on keeping all of the Sabbaths of the Torah, not just the 7th Day Sabbath. The ones associated with Passover, New Moons, and Day of Atonement. Some people make a separation between moral law and ceremonial law when reading the New Testament word Law, and follow moral law as Christians and ignore the ceremonial (ritual).

After all, the only place that "Ten Commandments" is written in the Bible is in Exodus 34, sometimes called "Ritual Commandments".

18“You shall keep the Feast of Unleavened Bread.
...
22You shall observe the Feast of Weeks, the firstfruits of wheat harvest, and the Feast of Ingathering at the year’s end.
...
25“You shall not offer the blood of my sacrifice with anything leavened, or let the sacrifice of the Feast of the Passover remain until the morning.

-Exodus 34, ESV-

Any ways, I watched a rather interesting Youtube video last Thursday, touching on Enoch:

How the Two Gods Heresy Inspired Christianity

Dr. Justin Sledge of the channel Esoterica joins me to talk about how Jewish Chariot Mysticism may have influenced the Apostle Paul’s view of salvation, the glorification of the body, and Jesus’ relation to God. Hekhalot and Merkavah literature and the books of Enoch play a major role here.

originally posted by: randomuser2034

originally posted by: nugget1
a reply to: randomuser2034

You're free to believe as you wish, as am I. Please shun me.

Agreed. I have always tried to show you respect, as you roll your eyes and bring up false accusations, and the most absurd claims. And I have always remained tactful, respectful, and defended your onslaught of untruths, and misconceptions with God's word, and a gentle manner.

Also you:

I wonder if you know how little a joy you are to be around to the people that you live with. If you are like that on here all the time, I can only imagine what those around you have to put up with around you. And I have a feeling you know what a rotten person you are to the people around you that love you.

[www.abovetopsecret.com...]



We seem to have different definition of respect, tact and 'gentle manner'. What dictionary are you using?

The Old Testament rules were for the Hebrews ... not for Christians.

It was under covenant with the Hebrews that God made the Old Testament rules.

Christ is a NEW COVENANT ... so the old rules are gone and new rules apply.

originally posted by: nugget1
Jehovah Witnesses have an answer for that: they consider Him to be the Son of God, but do not consider Jesus to be God Almighty. They consider Him to be a created being, specifically the incarnated Michael the Archangel.

Which doesn't work because the bible says Jesus created everything, including the angels, therefore He couldn't have been an angel. Angels can't create anything AND angels are themselves created beings.

Colossians 1:16 - For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him.

And we have this ... Jesus is GOD and He created everything ...

John 1:1-3 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.

The Ten Commandments are ten experience's cherry picked from the Egyptian book of the dead. Do your research folks!

originally posted by: Radchad
The Ten Commandments are ten experience's cherry picked from the Egyptian book of the dead. Do your research folks!

Or just universal in general.

Are you saved by your own works? Or by grace?

But I wouldn’t teach anything or preach to lead other people to wilfully break God’s law.

a reply to: FlyInTheOintment

Better yet. How could individuals be saved during the time of Abraham?

originally posted by: Lazy88
a reply to: FlyInTheOintment

Better yet. How could individuals be saved during the time of Abraham?

The Bible says that Abraham put faith in God and it was counted to him as righteousness:

"And he put faith in Jehovah, and He counted it to him as righteousness."-Genesis 15:6.

That passage of scripture is quoted by apostles later on in the Christian Greek Scriptures at Romans 4:3,9; Galatians 4:3; and James 2:23. In the same chapter of Romans 4 Paul tells us:

"For it was not through law that Abraham or his offspring had the promise that he should be heir of a world, but it was through righteousness by faith."-Romans 4:13.

Works of the law never made a person righteous before God. In fact Abraham existed before the Law Covenant came into existence. It was always their faith put in the offspring foretold to come at Genesis 3:15, which is the Christ, the Messiah, and Savior of the world, that made them righteous in God's eyes.

But to show that none of the patriarchs of old were saved, and that they will receive a part of the future coming resurrection of the righteous and be taught many things they were unaware of we are told in Hebrews 11. After Paul named a great cloud of witnesses in the Hebrew Scriptures (including, Able, Noah, Enoch, Abraham, Moses, and many others) we are told:

"And yet all of these, although they received a favorable witness because of their faith, did not obtain the fulfillment of the promise, because God had foreseen something better for us, so that they might not be made perfect apart from us."-Hebrews 11:39-40.

A few posts back the user Nugget1 talked about how the 144,000 receive eternal salvation before those of the earthly hope. And that is because they take part in the first resurrection, where they are granted heavenly spirit bodies, which are incorruptible and immortal.

Those patriarchs of old will not be made perfect apart from "us." That is a part from the 144,000 who reign with Christ. This happens at the revelation of the "sons of God." These adopted spirit sons are brought into Jehovah's family at their adoption by holy spirit. The rest of humankind does not return to Jehovah's family until the end of the 1,000-year-rule of Christ. That is what this scripture means:

"For the creation is waiting with eager expectation for the revealing of the sons of God. For the creation was subjected to futility, not by its own will, but through the one who subjected it, on the basis of hope that the creation itself will also be set free from enslavement to corruption and have the glorious freedom of the children of God."-Romans 8:19-21.

This is basically stating that God subjected mankind to death on the basis of the hope of the promise given at Genesis 3:15, of the coming offspring that would break up the works of the Devil. The revealing of these sons of God with Jesus Christ in his kingdom power will be when he returns during Jehovah's day to call them to his side in heaven, those who have endured faithful down to the end, and they will fight the battle of Armageddon with him, along with his holy myriads of angels, and then the dead will be resurrected back to life on earth. Both righteous and unrighteous. They will learn who the real offspring of the woman is that was foretold to come, by means of which all the nations of the earth would be blessed. And at the end of the, 1,000-year-rule of Christ, those who remain faithful after Satan is let out of the abyss, to tempt them for a little while, will be welcomed back into Jehovah's family and granted perfection of life, and receive the glorious freedom of the children of God. So those patriarchs of old will eventually be raised back to life, taught of Jesus Christ, put faith in him, NO DOUBT, be perfected by means of Jesus Christ, and the 144,000, and then finally be welcomed back to Jehovah's family as his children. Then everyone alive again will be children of God, those in heaven and those on earth. All the rebels will be done away with for eternity.

a reply to: FlyersFan

Why does the Church of Christ hate the Seventh Day Adventist so much, not to mention the Mormons and Jews.
This is what my old Baptist grandmother told me and she didn't care much for them either.

With all the hatred and division among the various denominations; for me it's hard to put much FAITH in organized religion; you just can't escape the hierocracy.


However I'm looking forward the the new Theocracy cult lead by an anointed one with project 25 as the new Bible.

lol....spell check put in "hierocracy" when I meant "hypocrisy" both work.

a reply to: lilzazz

Why does the Church of Christ hate the Seventh Day Adventist so much, not to mention the Mormons and Jews.

It's sort of all about which U.S. revival movement one's denomination gets it's roots from. The "Millerite Revival" or the "Restorationist Revival" aka Campbellite.

Both of those revivals had strong Baptist(Ana-Baptist aka Radical Reformation) roots. Back in the old days Baptists taught that some day the Roman Catholics and apostate Protestants would join together and form the New World Christian Church and go out to kill and destroy the "real" non-worldy non-power hungry Christians. The various Baptist offshoots had different standards by which to distinguish themselves from the "Fallen Babylonian Christians". They didn't agree on precisely what those distinguishing marks should be.

However I'm looking forward the the new Theocracy cult lead by an anointed one with project 25 as the new Bible.

Fun fact: Vernon Howell thought that he could be the Messiah in the mold of Cyrus. He went to Israel and had his name legally changed to David Koresh(Cyrus). Where Howell failed, Trump has succeeded.

Now all the American Christian Nationalists of all stripes can come together under his banner. The Catholics, the Dispensationalists, the Restorationists, the New Apostolic Restoration, and general Christian Zionists.

"Hail Donald Koresh! The Messiah of Trump Davidians!"

The Seventh-day Adventists thought that real Sabbath observance would keep them safe from being sucked into the Christian nationalist agenda. They were wrong. Project 2025 gives the option of Sunday or Saturday rest or overtime based on the business owner's flavor. Whoops!

Oh yeah, the Bible verse: Isaiah 45:1

originally posted by: BeyondKnowledge3
a reply to: yuppa

Which jesus are you referring to? Zeus had many male children within the Greek pantheon.

Jesus literally translates to son of Zeus.

Edit: Christ is from Christos which is the Latin name for Horus the son of Isis.

If you want to talk of the books man made about manmade gods, learn what those names are really referring to. Then again, most don't want to know any of that.

Biblical,archalogically accurate jesus who was born in bethlehem. Just because a name is derived from a former culture dont mean anything. remember the jews were slaves in egypt. no you just got a beef with christians is all it is.

a reply to: FlyInTheOintment

Not I.

Am completely in favor of Old Testiment, and am an old testament Christian, who openly wears the Ichthus rather than cross.

Command- ments are commands not suggestions.

Look what happened to the societies and cultures that turn away from God and his rules, rules which keep us in his Grace by following them.

They are guide rails for the straight and narrow.

People of The World, have been willingly and or unknowingly duped by false doctrine/s.

Is Mathew 17:21 in your Bible?



It's in mine. 1611 KJV Masonic Bible, and I worship the Father On Heaven.

Glory unto Him, not into us, may his Will be done on earth.
As it is in Heaven. Amen.

originally posted by: Lazy88
Are you saved by your own works? Or by grace?

But I wouldn’t teach anything or preach to lead other people to wilfully break God’s law.

And just exactly which God are you talking about?

originally posted by: ADVISOR
a reply to: FlyInTheOintment

Not I.

Am completely in favor of Old Testiment, and am an old testament Christian, who openly wears the Ichthus rather than cross.

Command- ments are commands not suggestions.

Like this one?

“You must not make for yourself a carved image or a form* [Or “representation.”] like anything that is in the heavens above or on the earth below or in the waters under the earth.” (Exodus 20:4)

“that you may not act corruptly by making for yourselves any carved image having the form of any symbol, the representation of male or female, the representation of any animal on the earth or the representation of any bird that flies in the sky, the representation of anything creeping on the ground or the representation of any fish in the waters under the earth.” (Deuteronomy 4:16-18)

Clearly, the Israelites were not to use idols of any shape or form in the worship of God. An idol is an image, a representation of anything, or a symbol that is an object of passionate devotion, whether material or imagined. Generally speaking, idolatry is the veneration, love, worship, or adoration of an idol.

Today men worship themselves or other men in high places. They make of themselves idols and love to have it so. People today are no better in this respect than those of centuries gone by. History shows us the worship of stone gods, goddesses, four-footed animals, fish, birds. All kinds of creatures have been carved in wood or stone, then put on pedestals* for people to prostrate themselves before. Even God’s chosen people, the Israelites, bowed themselves down before images made of metal, stone or wood.

*: you can see some examples of this after 6:24 below:

a reply to: whereislogic

The Vanity of "Idols"

As previously mentioned, I don't worship a fish.

I worship The Father in Heaven.

The use of fish as a Christian symbol can be traced back to the early days of Christianity. The Greek word for fish, “ichthys,” was used as an acronym for “Jesus Christ, Son of God, Savior.”

The symbol was used by early Christians to identify themselves to each other without fear of persecution.

Do you not know the history?

earlychurchhistory.org...