How bad does the X-Men movies tick you off?

Alright, as we all know this is one of those topics of where does it belong? I think it belongs more in the hardcore comic forum than in the movie forum. Both movies ticked me of to no end. Anyone who has been a follower of Stan Lee's "X-Men" can not be fooled by these sad Hollywood productions of this comic. The time lines are WAY off! BIG TIME! The movies annoy me for the following reasons:
1) Jubilee does not belong in the same generation as the Iceman and Pyro.
2) Shadow Cat was dead well before Rogue joined the X-Men
3) Where the hell is Gambit?
4) What happened to Mystique being Rogue's mother? Rogue was a villian before she became part of the X-Men gang. She put Marvel Girl in a coma and stole her powers, thus giving her the ability to fly. Where's the flying? Where's Marvel Girl?
5) Collosus is a teenager in the second movie? WTF, He married Shadow Cat and was a earlier generation of the X-Men.

Is it just me, or did the people who wrote the scripts to these movies base it off of a video game and NOT the actual comics? DID THEY EVEN READ THE COMICS?

What ticks me off the most was the frist movie: Storms terrible accent and that line that involved frogs and lightning. Oh, and the Gambit thing too. I keep hearing that rumors about his appearance. At frist someone mentioned he wasn't going to have a role in the movie, but he was going to be in the background like a few of the other X-men. Then, I hear some stuntman was going to play him. But then, I hear he wasn't in the original comics, either. He was just added for the cartoon and became pretty popular. (I guess to draw in the female crowd..alot of us adore him for some reason. )

Other than that, I can say the movie was OK. But, I'm not a movie nut like my friends. I guess the X-men universe was too much for the guys in Hollywood to work with. So they changed some stuff around a bit to fit in to movie. If they didn't do that, they may have to make about 20 X-men moves to fit in every single detail.

(Sorry, didn't mean to double-post)

[edit on 20-4-2005 by Shaione]

Originally posted by deadlynightshade
Alright, as we all know this is one of those topics of where does it belong? I think it belongs more in the hardcore comic forum than in the movie forum. Both movies ticked me of to no end. Anyone who has been a follower of Stan Lee's "X-Men" can not be fooled by these sad Hollywood productions of this comic. The time lines are WAY off! BIG TIME!

Yes, and they should be way off. I'll explain that later. In the meantime, try a little decaf once in a while and relax. Your own personal timelines are off just as much apparently. Allow me to explain.

The movies annoy me for the following reasons:
1) Jubilee does not belong in the same generation as the Iceman and Pyro.

This is true, but if you're going to be strict about it, Pyro was never one of the X-Men at all.

2) Shadow Cat was dead well before Rogue joined the X-Men

Um... no. Shadowcat (aka Sprite aka Ariel aka Kitty Pryde) was most certainly not dead when Rogue joined the X-Men. She was part of the team. Her death, btw, would have made it very tough for her to later found Excalibur with Nightcrawler and Captain Britain, at a time when the X-Men were believed to have died in Dallas, TX, fighting the Adversary with Forge.

3) Where the hell is Gambit?

Gambit came along even later than anyone else they've shown so far, including Jubilee. He does exist in the movies' universe though. Gambit's real name, Remy LeBeau, is among the mutants listed in Stryker's mutant database in X2. He'll probably turn up in X3 somehow.

4) What happened to Mystique being Rogue's mother? Rogue was a villian before she became part of the X-Men gang. She put Marvel Girl in a coma and stole her powers, thus giving her the ability to fly. Where's the flying? Where's Marvel Girl?

The X-movies' universe is based a wee bit more firmly in reality than the comics' universe, and Marvel Girl (aka Carol Danvers) is more than a bit too over the top for that world. Besides that, Mystique is most assuredly not Rogue's actual mother. Rogue viewed her as such for a while because Mystique took her in once she ran away from home after her powers manifested. Marvel Girl's addition to the story would have required an explanation of the Kree Empire, as well as giving Rogue multiple personalities, and that's far more than you can do in just one movie.

5) Collosus is a teenager in the second movie? WTF, He married Shadow Cat and was a earlier generation of the X-Men.

Colossus (aka Piotr Rasputin), when Wolverine arrived (the same time Piotr did actually), was a teenager. He was still a teenager (or awfully close) when Shadowcat (Kitty) arrived. Colossus was probably the youngest of the "New X-Men" when they debuted to save the original team from the living island, Krakoa. Kitty's arrival btw, came during the Dark Phoenix Saga, making her a late addition to the team's 2nd Generation. While I admit that I stopped reading not long after the whole Onslaught debacle, I can tell you with a great deal of certainty that Kitty and Piotr were not married, unless it happened in secret while he was with Magneto as one of his Acolytes..... But I digress.

Is it just me, or did the people who wrote the scripts to these movies base it off of a video game and NOT the actual comics? DID THEY EVEN READ THE COMICS?

I suppose some could say the same for you, but then again, I only started reading about the X-Men before your birth. Please remember the whole "Glass Houses" phrase before you comment so emotionally. Thank you for playing X-Men History Trivia -- we have some wonderful parting gifts for you.

Now, as for the movie world....

Movies need to be a broader-base to work from to bring in people who ordinarily wouldn't give a rat's behind about who the X-Men are. X-Men is the biggest selling comic series from the big two, I know, but they don't have automatic name recognition like Batman, Superman, or Spiderman. That's reality. So you twist and tweak and pick the best characters fromt he 30-odd years of X-history you can find, and you create a story that would interest more than just the hard-core fanboys, using movie characters that stay true to the essence of the comic characters.

Personally, I believe that X-Men and X2 are two of the best comics movies ever made. That's just my opinion, of course, but the biggest thing they had going for them was the fact that the characters were likable beyond being superheroes. They centered around the characterization, which is what has always been the key to their stories.

Now I'm off for coffee before returning to answer the next set of questions....

Originally posted by Shaione
But then, I hear he wasn't in the original comics, either. He was just added for the cartoon and became pretty popular. (I guess to draw in the female crowd..alot of us adore him for some reason.

)

As much as some would like to believe he was added purely as bad-boy eye candy (which he may be), Gambit was added to the mix with a very vague background at first, meeting Storm when she was reduced to the physical state of childhood after passing through the Siege Perilous.

There were rumors of a third Summers brother (supposedly Gambit, according to some sources) who had connections to Mr. Sinister (Gambit was revealed to have worked for Sinister and the Marauders, particularly during the "Mutant Massacre" storyline). There were other stories going around (also verified by people in the industry) that he was initially brought along to be the traitor that Bishop was searching for (this idea was reportedly nixed once Gambit became the most popular member of the team other than Logan). In one early issue (for Gambit, at least), during a fight with Wolverine in the Danger Room, it was hinted that he might be somehow linked to Longshot, and some people thought he might be some weird twisted mix from the Mojoverse that went wacky after passing through the Siege Perilous or something.

Eventually they revealed (re-wrote?) who he was and what his connections to Mr. sinister were. In the end though, he's been shown as sultry, seductive, and very much the bad boy that so many women want.

Other than that, I can say the movie was OK. But, I'm not a movie nut like my friends. I guess the X-men universe was too much for the guys in Hollywood to work with. So they changed some stuff around a bit to fit in to movie. If they didn't do that, they may have to make about 20 X-men moves to fit in every single detail.

You pretty well covered that idea. It would take around 50 movies or more to do it and stay true to the comics. And then they'd have to explain the stuff like -- "why isn't anyone looking 50 years older, like they should after 50 years of adventures??" I believe that the healthy injection of realism makes the movies more interesting, as it's more of a shock when Jean stops the water AND powers up the Blackbird simultaneously. The power disparity isn't quite so readily evident if your movie universe is full of people who are on the level of Gladiator of the Shi'ar Imperial Guard.

Let's also keep in mind that there are other aspects of the X-Men "family tree" that have been licensed to other studios. It's obvious they can't do anything that will include Spiderman, who has worked with the X-Men (especially Wolverine) on quite a few occasions. There was a pretty good joke played on the cast during the first movie involving Spidey though. It's in the deleted scenes on the DVD, I believe.

I'd like to point out that despite my knowledge of these things, I don't claim to know it all. I do know a fair bit more than a lot of people though.

Ok, but we need to get another thing straight:

We X-Men fanatics have waited our whole lives for a movie based on the comic to come out. It was only at this time in 'movie-magic' that such a film could have been made. If X1 or X2 were made in the 80's, it would have sucked. Maybe the time line is not exact; maybe Piotr speaks with an American accent; maybe Rogue is a wee-bit younger than in the Marvel Universe; maybe they should have elaborated more on the Sabretooth/Wolverine relationships, in the Weapon-X program (or Weapon A, if you want to bring Alpha-Flight into the picture); maybe Storm was portrayed as a kind of weak, ineffectial nothing, instead of the African woman who was seen as a 'goddess'; maybe Magneto could have picked better a better team (c'mon, Toad??? what about Juggernaut, Xavier's half brother?); maybe Jubilee shouldn't have been shown before Jean Grey turned into the Dark Phoenix?

Who cares? The movies were awesome, and I can't wait 'til X3 comes out!

I agree with you nathraq. Rumor has it that the Wolverine movie will touch more on the Weapon X project, and possibly into his relationship with Sabretooth.

Keep in mind that using Toad gave them a chance to step into the Way-Back Machine though, and pull out one of the original Brotherhood members.

Juggernaut was too high-powered for the first movie. Remember that they've established that this is more or less the real world, with fewer known superhumans than in the comics. That having been said, they're looking to use him in X3.

Like you said though -- bring on X3!

Originally posted by deadlynightshade
The time lines are WAY off! BIG TIME!

Keep in mind tho that its not supposed ot be a retelling of the xman cmoics. I mean, iceman is a kid and wolverine is there right off the bat? At lest Jean Grey is setup to become phoenix tho. I mean, thats the good stuff, the big things from the comics are adapted. The tension between wolverine and cyclops. Magneto ain't such a bad guy. Wolverines weird history. Etc etc.

3) Where the hell is Gambit?

Gamits 'cool', but thats about it. There's already wolverine, why throw in gamit? He's just a 'cool' character. 'Sides, the accent'd be annoying.

5) Collosus is a teenager in the second movie? WTF, He married Shadow Cat and was a earlier generation of the X-Men.

I don't remember colossus being in the second movie even. Yikes. He's an awesome character.

DID THEY EVEN READ THE COMICS?

I think that they spoke to focus groups of fans, and stan lee, thats how they got the major 'movements' but not the specifics.

Where's Juggernaut??
external image

WHere's apocalypse?


Hell, where the hell are Angel and The Beast???


Heck, even Archangel, since angel's kind of lame.


I mean, this is the Uncanny X-Men
external image

Still, it could be much much worse.

Remeber this:

That movie was crap.

Also, you may have heard about the Fantastic Four movie thats comming up.

(btw, ain't that Horatio Hornblower as Mr. Fantastic? He's awesome!)
Not too long ago, roger Corman (of b movie fame/infamy) made a version of it that was such garbage that marvel canned it and hid it and refuses to show it to anyone.

Nygdan the roger corman movie was basically a sham. He had the movie rights for years, but it came time to use it or lose it! so he hired the actors , created the special effects all in hopes of buying time or getting alot more money. I don't believe he ever actually planned on realeasing the movie, The actors had no idea , they thought they were gonna be movie stars, Which makes it all that much more sad , Don't forget the Justice League of america Pilot that came out.



I think i wrote a post on here before but it vanished when the board went down

The one thing you have to do when you watch a superhero movie is treat it like a "What if" or an "Elseworlds" comic, Its an adaptation and Just be happy that others will get introduced to these wonderful characters and hopefully pick up a comic out of curiousity.

but of course growing up with these characters and stories it upsets us(okay me) that the film industry will stretch and skew these characters to fit in and be hip with the PG-13 crowd (not to mention create a new look so they can make even more toys!).

Now this upsets me , check out the new superman costume





another thing to gripe about is when a movie comes out, the comic book companies will shove in things from the movie , so that way its more familiar to non-comic readers. Take the x-men , after the first movie they changed the costumes to look just the movie. Alot of the characters have gotten younger.


eh.............i'll stop whining, I love all the superhero movies , i might bitch and gripe , but i go watch them all the same

[edit on 29-4-2005 by bordnlazy]

Beast made an appearance in X2, on the tv if you'll remember. Maybe I just pay too much attention.

Angel and Beast are apparently part of X3 from what I've read online.

Juggernaut, as said above in another post, is part of X3.

Apocalypse should be waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay down the line of X-villains for movies IMO. He may be the big gun of the last decade or so, but he didn't appear until well after some much more important storylines, historically speaking at least. He's also big enough that his appearance should be a huge epic -- the finale to the movie series perhaps. He has too much backstory to just throw in somewhere along the way. Show him after showing Mr. Sinister, perhaps as the mysterious shadow Sinister reports to when he fails in his plot.

Yes, Colossus was in X2, although shown only briefly. Kitty has been played in her brief appearances by two different actresses in the series so far and she's apparently being recast for a third time for X3.

I'm REALLY looking forward to FF this July. Hopefully it's worth looking forward to. Same thing goes for Batman Begins in June.

As for the new Superman costume..... yuck. I've seen that pic before, and I keep hoping it was done as misdirection to keep spoiler-seekers off-target. Punisher was pretty messed up the first time around, with Dolph Lundgren in the role, and yes, Captain America was just god-awful.

bordnlazy had it right when saying that you have to treat movies like "What If" or "Elseworlds" tales. So long as you go into things with those expectations, you generally won't be as disappointed by changes in details. Just keep it true to the spirit of the original.

For what its worth, I'd love to see a Green Lantern movie, even tho I didn't follow the comics in that much detail. They could make it like a real deal space adventure type movie, what with the origin and intent of the corps. The Green Lanterns are (at least supposedly) based on the same storyline from which Star Wars springs.

edit to add:
It'd be real intersting to see some "Elseworld" movies too. I mean, how many batman movies can you make before the history of the movies themselves starts interfereing? "Gotham By Gaslight"'d be awesome.

[edit on 1-5-2005 by Nygdan]

Originally posted by Nygdan
For what its worth, I'd love to see a Green Lantern movie, even tho I didn't follow the comics in that much detail. They could make it like a real deal space adventure type movie, what with the origin and intent of the corps. The Green Lanterns are (at least supposedly) based on the same storyline from which Star Wars springs.

edit to add:
It'd be real intersting to see some "Elseworld" movies too. I mean, how many batman movies can you make before the history of the movies themselves starts interfereing? "Gotham By Gaslight"'d be awesome.

[edit on 1-5-2005 by Nygdan]

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Dude! a green lantern movie would ROCK! totally have it be a space type adventure movie. Though at this time it would prolly be super expensive to do but totally worth watching!

I've been reading X-Men books for 10 years now and I loved both the movies.
You can't expect the movies to be a direct translation of the book. Comics and Movies are 2 completely different things. It would be impossible to make movies a direct translation of the comic book, the book has been around for 42 years! You can fit all that continuity into a feature film and if you tried it would suck.

Originally posted by Nygdan
For what its worth, I'd love to see a Green Lantern movie, even tho I didn't follow the comics in that much detail. They could make it like a real deal space adventure type movie, what with the origin and intent of the corps.
[edit on 1-5-2005 by Nygdan]

I have always been a huge fan of GL but a lot of the uses some writers or artists came up with for his powers were sometimes lame.

I liked the Kingdom Come version of GL, a more powerful montior of off world threats.

One thing I would really have liked to have seen his powers used slightly differently, if you have read the image title "The Darkness" this assasin basicaly has a similar ability to GL, both use the imagination to form objects out of energy.

The Darkness used his powers more creatvely although somewhat more graphically violent.

The Darkness for me showed what could have or should have been done to GL. It is the difference between coming up with a large cartoony gavel (hammer) or being surrounded by sexy subordinates that served your will and could tear apart a villian at a moments notice.

Don't go into Paralax territory, thats a bad place that should never have existed

sorry about this was not able to edit my previous post.

I don't believe that he should be specifically surrounded by certain types just that with his command over the powers would be cool to see some third party manifestations of his will.

examples: Persons from his past that he has some connection to, creatures, monsters or the environment he creates around him.

Sorry for the double post