A Trust Based Society or Total Chaos; is it me or them?

In a recent reply post someone attempted to make an argument against the idea of a rules based society with the following statement:

Does insurance pay anything if I leave my car open with the keys in? It's a me problem not a them problem...

Now, the individual might try to say that an argument against a rules based society was not their point, but this exactly what that line of reasoning leads to. I heartily thanked the individual for their generous gift of exposing the folly of bleedin' heart, leftitst thought. Let's take that line of reasoning to where it must and can only lead.

If in this case the theft of the car (and though theft is surely a right-wing extremist, white supremacist, colonialist, racist word, I'll use it anyway) is deemed to be the fault of the car owner who left the key in the ignition (the me element of the thesis instead of the them element).

So, the first question is: Was the theft of the car against the rules? (Again, to employ a right-wing extremist, white supremacist, colonialist, racist word: Was it a crime?) That is to say: Wast the theft of the car a crime, or wasn't it?

If the theft of the car was not a crime, then we have a society where there is essentially no such thing as crime, which means there are no societal standards by which one must conduct one's self. If there is no law - with attached, resulting penalties that ultimately make the breech of order unprofitable - saying that that should not be done, then we will have no order in society. It will be a free for all and nobody and nothing will be secure in their person or possessions. Total chaos, disorder and, ultimately, total insecurity and violence would be the end result.

So, let's assume for a moment that it would not be desirable or pleasant to live in such a society. Here, then, is the next conundrum extrapolating from the first mentioned line of reasoning: Say you forget your keys in your car and somebody steals it. Is that a you problem or a them problem? Now, if the society in which you live has prescribed rules (there's that nasty right-wing extremist, white supremacist, colonialist, racist word, laws, again) that say that it is wrong to take another person's property (let's call that stealing for the sake of convenience, though that is surely another loaded, right-wing extremist, white supremacist, colonialist, racist word), that is to say someone steals your car because you left the keys in the ignition and stealing is against the laws (sorry), then the law must a prescribe penalty for the offence, else the law has no teeth, and a law without teeth is just a suggestion, which brings us back to the chaotic situation that I described previously.

So, if it's a you problem and not a them problem, and there is a prescribed penalty for the crime of stealing, who should suffer the penalty for the crime that has been committed? (Again, a law without teeth, without a penalty is just a suggestion and will not achieve its purpose of helping to maintain order in society.) Because that is where this line of reasoning leads. If the theft of the car is a you problem and not a them problem, then it would be necessary that you must suffer the penalty (prison) for the theft of your car. You go to jail because somebody else stole your car because it was a you problem and not a them problem; that is to say, it was your fault that they sold your car, and not their fault.

This is the unavoidable, inevitable and final conclusion of the bleedin' heart, leftist, progressive/liberal line of thought.

The progressive's lack of logic, understanding, foresight and ability to reason is astounding, but this clearly represents the greatest part of the left wing progressive/liberal movement and their way of thinking. Indeed, it is largely the root of what got us into the state of cultural and societal
dysfunction in which we find ourselves now.

CONT'D NEXT POST...

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a reply to: AwakeNotWoke

... CONT'D

As illustration of the above principles, I'll share some anecdotal examples.

I once lived in a small city in a semi-rural area. Just outside of town was a family owned dairy. They sold unhomogenised low-heat pasteurised milk, butter, cheese, yogurt, etc., all produced on their little dairy farm. The products were wonderful; fresh, healthy, tasty and competitively priced.

On this dairy farm was an unmanned store. You could drive up to the dairy farm, walk right in to the store, and refrigerators were full of jugs of fresh milk, freshly churned butter, cheeses, whatever you wanted that came from a cow's milk. There was no clerk. All the family members would be out working on the farm. A price list was prominently displayed and a cigar box for the money was on the table by the door. You could pick whatever products you wanted, deposit the right amount of cash in the box, take any changed owed you and be on your way. There were no cameras. There was no kind of accounting process involving the customer. This went on for years. (Often I would not even take my change, just left a little extra as a tip for their excellent products and service to the community.)

Now, I no longer live there, but as I understand it, the demographics of the area have changed (as they have changed in many places) and the dairy owners have found that due to the influx of certain demographical elements (I won't get into details), it is no longer possible to maintain this business model.

This was a TRUST BASED TRANSACTION. When trust degrades, the kind of society that can practice those kinds of trust based transactions falls apart. As that lack of trust degrades into distrust, the society is finished.

Our choices, ultimately, are to either live in and help maintain the kind of society where that kind of trust based intercourse can occur, or to live in and promote a society where everything has to be kept under lock and key, and where if somebody steals from you, you would be the one to suffer the penalty of the crime in one way or another? In a society without rules or laws, the person with the biggest stick, the biggest knife or the biggest gun will make the rules on a daily basis. We are seeing that happen in some cities in the United States, and there are people in the world, people on this forum who claim that this is acceptable and good.

Where I currently live, the keys to my truck have not been out of the ignition in a couple of months. Now, this is due to the fact that a problem with the transmission shifter makes the key get stuck. I know how to unstick it, but it's just not worth the effort, so I leave the key in the ignition. Over two months now.

How and why can I do this? One word: TRUST.

I know my community and my community knows me. There is trust. Nothing will happen to my truck and I know it.

When I was a kid, in the area that I lived in adults almost never took the key from their car ignition. My grandfather was a hunter and had a near arsenal of shotguns in an unlocked closet on an unlocked back porch in the middle of what is now (due to changed demographics that I won't elaborate on here) one of the highest crime areas in the U.S. There were boxes of shells. There were grandchildren playing in the yard. Nothing - NOTHING - untoward ever happened in over 50 years of that situation. Nobody ever attempted to steal the guns or the ammo. No kids ever tried to access the guns. That was because of a HIGH TRUST SOCIETY with the strong ethic of PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY (because even we kids knew that if we ever so much as touched one of those guns when not in the woods hunting, we'd get our asses whipped seven ways to Sunday).

Some people will tell you that this is a bad thing. They are idiots.

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DCCowboy's post was somehow deleted, but I 100%, wholeheartedly agree with his sentiment that "I hope all the Americans being subjugated, robbed, terrified by these animals all voted for Biden.", and I don't find it tough to say at all.

What I do find tough to say is the fact that many who did not vote for those treasonous fools are being affected, too. People who did not ask for this are being hurt by it.

And to think that a 2% tax on tea was all that it took to spark off the American Revolution.

a reply to: AwakeNotWoke

Does insurance pay anything if I leave my car open with the keys in? It's a me problem not a them problem...

I'm to the point of believing there's no way the above poster believes any of the crap they spew; he/she jsut gets they/them's jlooies out of creating chaos and arguing ad nauseam....probably for the cheap adrenaline rush they get by continually putting they/themselves in a highly agitated state.

No body is that consistantly dumb, without a single lick of common sense.

a reply to: AwakeNotWoke

People who did not ask for this are being hurt by it.

Kind of like how majority based election work... You will never please everyone.
Why can't you find beneficial solutions for problems other nations manage to deal with?

a reply to: nugget1

Believes... aren't they a beautiful thing... Makes us relish in our fantasies. Thanks for sharing yours...

a reply to: nugget1

No body is that consistently dumb, without a single lick of common sense.

To be that Dumb is a Choice . To use your mind takes effort , it requires a certain amount of Stress .

There are people Walking around the USA at this very moment who intend to vote for Kamala Harris .

You have to be 18 to vote in the United States of America . When I was 18yo I'll admit I was a moron but I was not so stupid as to think I would vote Democrat in the up coming election .

After this four years we've just lived through as a Country . If there are people still willing to Vote Democrat then I have no pity for them . They are beyond saving .

They are willfully Stupid .

a reply to: asabuvsobelow

Sadly, stupidity is endemic in much of the world's population. People like the one in question (if, indeed, it is a person and not just a bot) are all bleedin' hearts until their own pocket or their own life gets hit.

I don't personally know of one lefty who supports open borders but who was willing to take migrants into their own home. NYC is about to evict thousands of illegal immigrants into the streets where they will face a cold, brutal New York winter. How many of these types do you think will open their homes to them to save them from the cold?

Along with the endemic stupidity comes hypocrisy and a total lack of self-awareness ... until the results of their stupidity hit home. Just look at all the liberal, black democrat voters in Chicago who voted in the current and past sanctuary city friendly administrations but are now whining because the illegal immigrants are getting preferential treatment. I have no pity for them. They got what they voted for. Good on 'em!

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originally posted by: Terpene
a reply to: nugget1

Believes... aren't they a beautiful thing... Makes us relish in our fantasies. Thanks for sharing yours...

Some share their fantasies while the rest share their gross, willful ignorance, so thank you for all that YOU share.

The problem isn't about making a choice, between two opposites :
It's in the belief that one must make a choice, and that there are only two possibilities.

This is how we are divided, and conquered, every minute, every day.

originally posted by: KnowItAllKnowNothin
The problem isn't about making a choice, between two opposites :
It's in the belief that one must make a choice, and that there are only two possibilities.

This is how we are divided, and conquered, every minute, every day.

Sometimes choices have to be made.

Do you want to live in a trust based society where a shop can be unmanned and the owners certain that people will pay for purchases based on honor, or do you want to live in one where stores have lock up products and have armed guards standing at the door?

Do you want to live in a society where you can walk the streets at night and let your children go out to play with minimal supervision, or do you want to live in a society where you have to stay inside with all of your doors and windows locked for fear of your neighbour or people from outside your neighbourhood?

Do you want to live in a society where people are held responsible for the results of their own choices and actions, or do you want to live in a society where anyone can do anything they please with no fear of consequences.

I can't see a spectrum there. Help me out.

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a reply to: AwakeNotWoke

I would love to live in a world, or society, full of good honest folks.

Yet I have no control or influence, over what another may, or may not choose to do, for whatever reason.

A person with a chicken-coop may love to see their chickens free-ranging during the day : but knows that come nighttime, predators will be about, and he must protect the flock.

Animal predators have no choice to just be what they are in their essence.

We wish it was different for humans, but we may probably agree that there are many souls that we have no control nor influence over.

Therefore : I lock my car doors, and the doors to my home.

I suppose the nice shop owners left their unmanned shop running for as long as possible, until the losses just became too much to maintain. It's a darn shame to be sure.
Their hearts were in the right place, but somehow, the local society changed, and they had to adjust to the changes.

Wrong or right ? Does it really matter ?

Why are some fellow humans in such a place of lack : that they feel they can take from others, without reciprocation ?

It's a tough problem.

Equality, equanimity, and fairness, for all : without all of the political and other BS that divides us.

Sounds nice, but unrealistic.
So how can we take one step in that direction, and one step away from being divided ?

a reply to: KnowItAllKnowNothin

What I know is that I have lived in places where it worked.

Yes, it changed, but it didn't have to. That was the choice that was made; to let it degrade.

Violence.

Violence as a repercussion. Not fatal violence, I would put forth that a beating or broken hand would do.

The removal of a hand seems to be the standard in societies where violence is used as a punishment for theft, a measure I feel is harsh, a two strikes and your completely at the mercy of others kind of rule.

a reply to: KnowItAllKnowNothin

I have no excuse as to why I leave my keys in my ignition in my driveway, except at least I know where they are. Insurance SHOULD pay for it, if someone steals it. (But I know they won't)
You know my vehicle doesn't belong to you. Stay the hell away from it. It is in MY DRIVEWAY!!!!
Yeah, I live in a rural neighborhood.
While I trust everyone out there, we all also have guns.

Do we also have stupid teens? Yep. They tried stealing stuff from a barn a few years back. Got shot at. (This was during the day) Nobody was injured, he was only firing at the side of the bed of the truck, but it made the truck easier to identify by the police, and they were arrested. No charges, not even questions for the farmer that shot at them.

As it should be.