'Nogger Black' ice cream accused of being racist

Originally posted by spiritdancer

Read the previous posts before replying, and avoid making a fool out of yourself.

As I stated earlier, n•••er means the same in Scandinavia as in English speaking countries, and it's just as offensive, if not more.

I used a dictionary and a translation service. Obviously you used neither.

As I know Swedish perfectly well, I don't need any dictionaries or translation services. N•••er MEANS THE SAME in Swedish as in English. N•••er IS AS OFFENSIVE in Sweden as in the US.

Obviously, a narrow minded redneck might not see it as offensive, I can understand that.

Originally posted by CHANGELINGHowever this product is named in another language that happens to have a word that vaguely sounds like an English racial slur. Pure coincidence.

See above (sigh).

I actually agree with those who says we shouldn't be offended by such words in general. Fact is that these words are most often used to insult or hurt, therefore they will come across as hurtful. We all know that LOTS of people would be insulted by this word, lets not pretend otherwise.

[edit on 21/4/05 by gekko]

let's get things straigh. i'm a born and raised swede. the word 'nogger' is as far away from 'nougat' as 'Mallijah' is to 'Vanilla' - k? Nogger Black is childs play compared to what we've called candy/treats prior to the ice cream in question. Nogger is somewhat close to the derogative word for a person of African origin, if you look it up in swedish encyclopedias from around the stone ages [feels like it]. We've had Negro Balls [Neger bollar], chocolate balls, and Negro Kisses [Neger kyssar] candy for ages - which off course vanished from the market when people found it wrong and offensive [as in 'enlightened']. Sweden used to be a mysterious place at the end of the world - just like Africa... Put yer phazers on 'education'!

tough one this is - Yoda.

Originally posted by syrinx high priest


the chevy nova didn't sell very well in spanish speaking countries....

my friend and i are surprised that kias sell so well in north america. K.I.A. as in killed in action. not a very promising name for a car manufacturer.

i have to agree with what someone stated above. it seems some people go out of their way to find insults where none were intended. why look for things other then to support your own beliefs of negitive treatment. this is just as bad if not worse then actual raceisim against you.

Originally posted by Aelita

Originally posted by PsykoOps
In Finland (Swedens neigbour to you geologically challenged) we can buy 'Negros kiss'

Out of curiosity, what does geology have to do with that?

Sorry, I guess I'm abit challenged too
I meant for those who have no idea where Finland is.

Originally posted by CHANGELING

Originally posted by Nygdan

Originally posted by Oracle
i can't believe that the world has become so ANAL!!!
If nogger means nougat...then what's the big deal...the name is descriptive of the product

There no nougat in the bar. Its made dark black. its title is writtne grafiti like. Lets not pretend that the exec board saw the add and didn't put two and two together.

smatts
get upset if some company released "Super white crackers"?

If there was a 'honeky donkey' ice cream that had a big cartoon donkey in overalls and looking like a redneck, I think most people would be justified in taking offense. Cracka isn't much perceived as an insult. The word here most certainly is.

astrocreep
This product is a spin off of the original Nogger product with black licorice added thus the name. Much like our American Beer Michelob which came out with a Michelob Dark...uh because the beer was a dark ale.

So when you, or at least a person form that country familiar with the usage see

Nothing comes to mind 'cept a tasty licorice ice cream? I mean, if so, then fair enough, but i personally find it hard to beleive that hte people making and approving the add weren't snickering to themselves.

First off Cracker is most certainly offensive as offensive as nigg-er(apparently the settings will not permit this word to be typed the the way it is supposed to be spelled...but craker is?) . And if the products you mentioned were produced in the US then yes it would be very offensive. However this product is named in another language that happens to have a word that vaguely sounds like an English racial slur.

It also 'happens' to sound like a racial slur in its own language. The word does not only exist in english. A black person in german is called a 'schwarzer' (schwarz meaning black) but call also be called the same word as in english.

apparently a large group of people look for anything to be offensive so they can spew their own hate.

What hate has been spewed? its called Nogger Black, I really find it hard to belevie that these europeans didn't realize what it looks like.

There has to be more important things to really take issue with....right?

Er, you're reading and posting and discussing it, so apparently its pretty important to you.

astrocreep
Because there is no word or combination of words that can be construed as a direct or indirect insult to race.

Change a single letter and it spells the word exactly, and 'noggar' is a very common pronunciation of the word.

it is only logical to assume that the addition of black licorice is the reason for the addition.

Makes sense, I doubt that it was done in a secret onspiratorial manner, I just also have a real hard time beleiving that anyone can look at it and only think of yummy nougat and tasty licorice. But thats just me, you've said it doesn't read like that to you at all, so perhaps theres a lot of people that don't read it like that.

Just as the example of the word "niggardly" given earlier has absolutly no foundation nor relation to racial issues

I do find it amusing that people can get fired over using that word. It simply means stingy.

duskboy
i'm a born and raised swede. the word 'nogger' is as far away from 'nougat' as 'Mallijah' is to 'Vanilla' - k? Nogger Black is childs play compared to what we've called candy

So, as a swede, can you say that the people making this add, and the people approving it, had to know what they were getting into? Or is it reasonable to say that they'd've never even noticed it?

Originally posted by Nygdan

astrocreep
Because there is no word or combination of words that can be construed as a direct or indirect insult to race.

Change a single letter and it spells the word exactly, and 'noggar' is a very common pronunciation of the word.

Well, we could play that game all day long.

Change a letter in the word "can't" to a word that is very offensive to women. We could change Nike to Nuke which would likely offend Japanese. We could change "Dell to Dull" which might offend computer geeks or "Hell" which might offend religious fanatics.

We aren't talking about having to change the entire word because one letter will do that with quite a few. It also changes their definition which would make no sense in the case we are discussing. The marketing strategy is to get through that this is the same product line ie.. "Nogger" with an added twist of black licorice (to those of us who would find it enticing. I happen to love black licorice). It only stands to reason that this is marketing stategy. Nogger may be a more obscure word for nougat but that ploy often times allows companies to Trademark the name without conflicting with words used everyday.

In all reality, I live in rural appalachia and I have heard racial slurs a plenty (and its a shame) but I have never heard Nogger used to refer to any race...in fact until now Noggin' (which refers to the head) is about as close as I ever heard to that word.

Hate was not the correct word. I should have cut it at offensive. I would quote the sentence but apparently I violated some part of the TOS with my last quote..too long I guess. Sorry to all for interfering with the flow of the thread. Important to me Nygdan....I find it commical at best. I just like to see how people reason what they think. I do find it a bit concerning that race is somehow brought into an ice cream commercial and the worst is thought of the people who developed the add. Perhaps Sweden is a very homogeneous society( I believe it is..correct me if I am wrong) and the use of this word(Nogger) was not thought about as being similar to the slur due to this type of racism not being an issue in Sweeden? ANyhow for me if no one had ever made issue with this and I saw the ad I would have thought licorice ice cream....ew! Not oh my god it looks like that other word. I'm not a racist...I don't think like that. In that stuation I think.....hmmm "do they have chocolate instead"

I guess some people see hate even in ice cream. Sad really.

Do the Swedes also have white nougat ice ?

If so, how is it called, Nogger White, or simply Wogger ?




[edit on 22-4-2005 by Silenus]

Originally posted by astrocreep
Change a letter in the word "can't" to a word that is very offensive to women. We could change Nike to Nuke which would likely offend Japanese. We could change "Dell to Dull" which might offend computer geeks or "Hell" which might offend religious fanatics.

Context my friend, is everything. All the words you bring forward could be offensive.

Let's make some advertising strap-lines while were at it...

"Playboy: we can can't"

"Shoes from Hiroshima? We Nike them of the face of the earth"

"May Microsoft burn in Dell"

Its not the word alone. Meaning is extracted from the the words surrounding them. Further meaning can be added by clever use of typography and graphics, as the "Nogger BLACK" guys have understood.

You can claim it's coincidence, I think it's not.

Originally posted by Silenus
Do the Swedes also have white nougat ice ?

If so, how is it called, Nogger White, or simply Wogger ?

If there was an Ice cream called 'Nogger White' it would eliminate the shock factor and clever PA campaign brought by calling an ice cream 'Nogger Black'.

I get pretty offended when I go to the supermarket and see an isle full of "crackers". We got cheese crackers, peanutbutter crackers, etc.. How many of you are offended by this?

Admonition: I'm no racist, I love everybody, and I too believe we are all one race. Also, I can fully comprehend how some people might find it offensive. That having been said...

Nogger is the brand name. There are also Nogger Choc (chocolate), and original Nogger (nougat) in addition to the new "Black" flavor. The brand name remains the same regardless of whether or not it contains nougat, and this was the case prior to the "Black" flavor.

Just thought that was relevant information.

Originally posted by I See You
I get pretty offended when I go to the supermarket and see an isle full of "crackers". We got cheese crackers, peanutbutter crackers, etc.. How many of you are offended by this?

As Nygdan pointed out earlier, 'Cracker' isn't a word of demoralization. It's not even offensive.

Originally posted by gekko

Originally posted by astrocreep
Change a letter in the word "can't" to a word that is very offensive to women. We could change Nike to Nuke which would likely offend Japanese. We could change "Dell to Dull" which might offend computer geeks or "Hell" which might offend religious fanatics.

Context my friend, is everything. All the words you bring forward could be offensive.

Let's make some advertising strap-lines while were at it...

"Playboy: we can can't"

"Shoes from Hiroshima? We Nike them of the face of the earth"

"May Microsoft burn in Dell"

Its not the word alone. Meaning is extracted from the the words surrounding them. Further meaning can be added by clever use of typography and graphics, as the "Nogger BLACK" guys have understood.

You can claim it's coincidence, I think it's not.

I would say perception is just as important as context. You have your mountain and I just see the mole hill.

I say it's just an ice cream.
I'll order a whole case.
Does that make me a cracker?

Originally posted by Nygdan

duskboy
i'm a born and raised swede. the word 'nogger' is as far away from 'nougat' as 'Mallijah' is to 'Vanilla' - k? Nogger Black is childs play compared to what we've called candy

So, as a swede, can you say that the people making this add, and the people approving it, had to know what they were getting into? Or is it reasonable to say that they'd've never even noticed it?

Being a swede myself, I'll give my take on this by adding yet another fine example from a few years ago:



Sometimes people are simply blind to the obvious. I'd say it's not entirely unreasonable that the people working for this particular ice cream brand are so used to Nogger being nothing but a brand name (a really old one at that). So much so that they didn't realize it could be interpreted otherwise...

Originally posted by Nygdan
So, as a swede, can you say that the people making this add, and the people approving it, had to know what they were getting into? Or is it reasonable to say that they'd've never even noticed it?

Hmm, I'm pretty sure they knew what they were doing. It's not a big beal anyway, people talked about it, laughed about it - but there are more serious issues than a ice cream with an unfortunate name.

BTW, what if the ad agency behind this campaign where all from Africa?

LOL! Found this old gem, Swedish toilet paper:



[edit on 24-4-2005 by duskboy]

Originally posted by Simulacra
As Nygdan pointed out earlier, 'Cracker' isn't a word of demoralization. It's not even offensive.

Well, I wouldn't say that cracker isn't insulting, its just not nearly as universaly loathed as what this ice cream bar implies. On south park, chef can call the kids 'crazy crackers' all he wants, but not the reverse. Perhaps thats a bit of a double standard tho.

As far as actual saltines and such, lets not be silly. They're crackers. If this ice cream bar was made of nougat and such, then it'd be different.

I mean, if I went to the store and saw a big white box with 'White Crackas" written on it, and then a cartoon redneck on it and whatnot, then I'd say 'whats up with that'.

This 'brand' is apparently called 'nogger', referenceing nougat, yet, there s no nougat, which is strange enough, but its the grafiti writting and the 'black' that makes it obvious to me anyway what was going on.

Uhmm, wait, 'black' isn't how you say 'black' in sweden anyway right? We've been talking about 'nogger' being a term for nougant in swede-speak, fair enough, but black? Thats not their language.

Nogger is NOT a swedish word for nougat. We spell it the same way you do [English]. BTW, the same company behind Nogger Black [GB Glace] also sell ice creams called 'Magnum White' [KKK?] and '88' [Heil Hitler?] and 'Cornetto Soft Choc & Chip Vanilla' [Oh, the harmony!]. I could go on - BUT- i have to go to a bar to meet some friends. c-ya!



Nygdan: The swedish word for Black is 'Svart'. The thing is, swedish marketing hardly use swedish words these days. Feels like everythig is in English...

Cheers!

[edit on 25-4-2005 by duskboy]

Originally posted by duskboy
Nogger is NOT a swedish word for nougat. We spell it the same way you do [English]. BTW, the same company behind Nogger Black [GB Glace] also sell ice creams called 'Magnum White' [KKK?] and '88' [Heil Hitler?] and 'Cornetto Soft Choc & Chip Vanilla' [Oh, the harmony!].

Ok, now I think it's pretty obvious that this company had something up their sleeve.