UK prosecutors may seek extradition for Americans for inflammatory speech

His wrongful conviction was overturned after three years and was granted just under £1m compensation.

He chose to work in the arms export business but wasn't paid anything for his role giving intel to SIS - it was all very cloak and dagger stuff and the MI6 guy telling them what to do never said 'I'm a spy, I work for such and such' or offered them money he just let himself into their office one day made it clear he knew everything about the company/contract tender and told them how important it was to national security to go ahead.

He certainly wasn't naive and was an incredibly intelligent guy being one of the best engineers in the world - he chose to heed a death threat and get the next flight back to the UK from Belgium while his boss ignored it and was killed. He wanted to send them to the Iraqi embassy in London to avoid customs hassle but SIS/Foreign Office instructed otherwise and granted them export liscences.

He wasn't psychic though and didn't know Saddam would gas the Kurds, Gulf War would happen and the US/UK would retroactively arrest the people they instructed to export arms to Iraq gather intel for them.

There's a couple of interviews with him here on it here:
CH4 Interview

CH4 Interview

He was told a lot of lives were at stake if he didn't go through with it as the US and UK were using it as a means to spy on Iraqi nuclear weapons development and would also be accountable for the deaths of intel assets in Iraq if he refused/didn't do as instructed.

His 1st wife was killed shortly after he was denied extradition, second one a decade or so later and he was found 'suicided' in his car a decade or so ago despite having no history of depression, being in a good mood when my Dad saw him the night before, saw his daughter off to Uni in the morning and was planning to sail the world.

Even though he was family and an amazing guy I can still see the ''live by the sword, die by the sword' thing where he was concerned but not other family and both governments were wrong to punish people for working for them.

Further calls for Musk's arrest to face charges in Britain
The world is going crazy.

a reply to: UKTruth

I doubt Kamala Harris would survive a stolen Presidency. The Military is losing its patience, as we can see from the high number of military vets in Congressional and State level elections. This is intentional, as they are trying a bloodless return to power. I believe they can do it. But if the Euro-Atlantic elites who essentially control a big part of our intelligence community and congress through those lovely Ivy League secret society Fraternity/Sorority bonds actually successfully pull a steal, I believe we can expect to see another Jade Helm operation around the country with spontaneous unannounced Urban combat drills with Helicopters shooting guns in the middle of the night as a drill and the armed escorts in the streets leading hostage and crisis actors (yea sure they are) into armored convoys and hauled to undisclosed locations ... all as parts of a drill of course.

Jade Helm 2014 I believe is exactly how we got here and why Trump had to step up to the plate. It is how so many government agencies and non government institutions got infiltrated and suddenly flipped into anti-American, Anti-constitution socialist gestapo agencies and institutions. That alleged drill was nothing of the sort. If the Elite of Europe steal this election again, which I do not believe they can, we can expect another Jade Helm style CONUS drills lasting some weeks and months and more waking up in the middle of the night to Helicopters shooting guns in your urban area, but it is all just unannounced drills of course....

a reply to: UKTruth

You know and I know this is not going to happen.

Its a very vocal and small minority that are shouting for this and similar things.
They think they'll get popular support but the exact opposite will happen.

The vast majority think they're being idiots and are vastly over-reaching.
The only support it may get is from the predictable neo-liberal, champagne socialist wokerati imbeciles.

originally posted by: bastion
His wrongful conviction was overturned after three years and was granted just under £1m compensation.

He chose to work in the arms export business but wasn't paid anything for his role giving intel to SIS - it was all very cloak and dagger stuff and the MI6 guy telling them what to do never said 'I'm a spy, I work for such and such' or offered them money he just let himself into their office one day made it clear he knew everything about the company/contract tender and told them how important it was to national security to go ahead.

"John Paul Grecian, Bryan Mason, Stuart Blackledge and Colin Phillips were codefendants wrongly convicted in February 1992 in London of illegal arms sales to Iraq. The four businessmen pled guilty, and were given a suspended prison sentence. The convictions of Grecian, Mason, Blackledge, Phillips were overturned in October 1995 by England's Court of Appeals after it was learned that the British government knew about the arns sales in advance and did nothing to prevent them. It was reported on June 8, 1996 in the Independent (London) that at the times of the arms sales Grecian was working as an informant for the U.S.'s Central Intelligence Agency. In May 1996 Grecian announced he was seeking compensation from the British government for his wrongful conviction. In November 2010 the British government announced that Grecian and another businessman acquitted of engaging in business dealings and who provided information to the British government about Iraq's nuclear weapons program in the 1990s, were awarded a total of £1m pounds."

forejustice.org...

Did Grecian's colleagues know, at the time, that he was passing information to the CIA? Or did that come out after the fact?

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: UKTruth

You know and I know this is not going to happen.

Its a very vocal and small minority that are shouting for this and similar things.
They think they'll get popular support but the exact opposite will happen.

The vast majority think they're being idiots and are vastly over-reaching.
The only support it may get is from the predictable neo-liberal, champagne socialist wokerati imbeciles.

I do not know, Freeborn.
With the arrest of the Telegram CEO, things are escalating.
Musk himself has now said that he will be limiting his travel due to the risk of arrest.

“Probably wise to for me to limit movements to countries where free speech is constitutionally protected,” Musk posted on X

There is a concerted effort to police the public square - will a small number of people deciding what can and cannot be discussed.

originally posted by: UKTruth
Musk himself has now said that he will be limiting his travel due to the risk of arrest.

“Probably wise to for me to limit movements to countries where free speech is constitutionally protected,” Musk posted on X

Particularly, if he cannot support the statements that he has made utilising his freedom of speech in a court of law. If he can, then he shouldn't have any concerns.

originally posted by: UKTruth
There is a concerted effort to police the public square - will a small number of people deciding what can and cannot be discussed.

I am sure Julian Assange would like to point out that with great power comes great responsibility and that it is wise to chose your battles carefully - the "powers that be" are far less keen to take you to court that way because you have the evidence to support the courage of your convictions.

originally posted by: BrucellaOrchitis

originally posted by: bastion
His wrongful conviction was overturned after three years and was granted just under £1m compensation.

He chose to work in the arms export business but wasn't paid anything for his role giving intel to SIS - it was all very cloak and dagger stuff and the MI6 guy telling them what to do never said 'I'm a spy, I work for such and such' or offered them money he just let himself into their office one day made it clear he knew everything about the company/contract tender and told them how important it was to national security to go ahead.

"John Paul Grecian, Bryan Mason, Stuart Blackledge and Colin Phillips were codefendants wrongly convicted in February 1992 in London of illegal arms sales to Iraq. The four businessmen pled guilty, and were given a suspended prison sentence. The convictions of Grecian, Mason, Blackledge, Phillips were overturned in October 1995 by England's Court of Appeals after it was learned that the British government knew about the arns sales in advance and did nothing to prevent them. It was reported on June 8, 1996 in the Independent (London) that at the times of the arms sales Grecian was working as an informant for the U.S.'s Central Intelligence Agency. In May 1996 Grecian announced he was seeking compensation from the British government for his wrongful conviction. In November 2010 the British government announced that Grecian and another businessman acquitted of engaging in business dealings and who provided information to the British government about Iraq's nuclear weapons program in the 1990s, were awarded a total of £1m pounds."

forejustice.org...

Did Grecian's colleagues know, at the time, that he was passing information to the CIA? Or did that come out after the fact?

Sorry for the late reply, only just seen your comment.

I don't know is the answer; I'm fairly sure it only came out after the fact as it wasn't entered as defence in the original trial but was exposed/used in the appeal stage.

It's a reasonable suspicion that most people in the arms trade active aquiring/selling area pass that info up to intel agencies and a few figures are agents but AFAIK Grecian was Scottish so working for the CIA was a bit of a suprise/kept hidden.

They knew they were being tracked by US, UK, Israeli, Iranian, South African and I think Iraqi security/intel agents prior to Bull's assasination but AFAIK the identities of who gave those agencies the heads up were unknown.

originally posted by: BrucellaOrchitis

originally posted by: UKTruth
Musk himself has now said that he will be limiting his travel due to the risk of arrest.

“Probably wise to for me to limit movements to countries where free speech is constitutionally protected,” Musk posted on X

Particularly, if he cannot support the statements that he has made utilising his freedom of speech in a court of law. If he can, then he shouldn't have any concerns.

originally posted by: UKTruth
There is a concerted effort to police the public square - will a small number of people deciding what can and cannot be discussed.

I am sure Julian Assange would like to point out that with great power comes great responsibility and that it is wise to chose your battles carefully - the "powers that be" are far less keen to take you to court that way because you have the evidence to support the courage of your convictions.

Your first sentence is the problem.

"Particularly, if he cannot support the statements that he has made utilising his freedom of speech in a court of law."

This kind of rhetoric is so dangerous.
Why would anyone have to support the statements they have made in a court of law - specifically criminal courts?
We're not talking here about threatening people or telling people to go and commit crime, or organising any crime.
We are talking about opinions on society.

The line between these things is being blurred - and general statements like the one you made are a problem.
I have never seen Musk make any statement on Twitter or anywhere else that could be considered criminal.

We are on a slippery slope and you seem not to recognise it.

a reply to: bastion

Thanks for getting back to me on that.

The reason I asked was because, MI6 like the CIA isn't able to spy on it's own people, that's MI5's job and it seems apparent that MI5 were by-passed.

I would hazard that when the MI6-like chap turned up at the office that first time that Grecian was already on-board as a CIA asset.

a reply to: UKTruth

You're talking about opinions on society. I am talking about dis-information. Not checking your sources and thinking before you speak.

You talk as if the law has ever been fairly applied.

originally posted by: BrucellaOrchitis
a reply to: bastion

Thanks for getting back to me on that.

The reason I asked was because, MI6 like the CIA isn't able to spy on it's own people, that's MI5's job and it seems apparent that MI5 were by-passed.

I would hazard that when the MI6-like chap turned up at the office that first time that Grecian was already on-board as a CIA asset.

It does seem likely as UK intel were more interested in protecting their sources and spying on Iraq/Iran - US intel were monitoring Saddam too as despite being allies at the time, he had a reputation for betraying allies once he got what he wanted.

The main MI6 handler directing my uncle was David Spedding who went on to be head of MI6 under the pseudonym 'C' despite the disastrous fallout of the Arms to Iraq affair as his unmasking was seen as a benefit in MI6 having a more public role.

There's an interesting article here on an angle I've never heard about that claims HM Customs assured the Matrix Churchill arm would never reveal him working for MI5 as a spy collecting info on Iraqi arms manufacturing - the company was sold to Iraqi al-Arabi Trading to gain more intel and they were all arrested within 24 hours of them trying to buy Matrix Churchill back.

Herald Scotland - The spy who took his revenge.

originally posted by: bastion

Herald Scotland - The spy who took his revenge.

I'm too cheap to pay the subscription on that one, I found another review of the book in the Independent but it doesn't cover the same ground that you highlighted but lots of other things instead.

I am tempted to buy the book.

The view from the dock of Henderson's prosecution, and of the government's attempt to hide behind Public Interest Immunity Certificates, is usefully given here. The defence's undermining of the Crown was a spectacular forensic success for Geoffrey Robertson QC. He hijacked the prosecution witnesses so successfully that after only five days (following Alan Clark's admissions under cross-examination about his economies 'with the actualite') the Crown had to throw in the towel.

This thoroughly good, plain book answers many lurking questions about the Matrix Churchill affair. But the big one is left begging. We still do not know why. Men like Henderson were stooges in the greater game, of course. One cannot expect him to know the truth. Yet the fact remains that, for whatever reason, the Thatcher administration sucked up to a vicious dictator hated by almost all other Arab governments, publicly denouncing him while secretly fuelling his monstrous ambitions and massaging his self- esteem. Knowing he used gas and starvation against his own people, and was developing a nuclear bomb, the British government chose to sell him a selection-box of lethal toys. Finally, by squandering billions of pounds in loan guarantees to his bellicose, bankrupt, egregious economy, it effectively invested in him.

So why? Was it so that a very few, well-placed countrymen of ours could grow extremely rich? We must now look to Lord Justice Scott for the answer.

www.independent.co.uk...

I don't think that the Scott Report went into the why just the how, not a terrific amount about the whos either.