Bitcoin Trump and the US Dollar

originally posted by: underpass61
CBDCs can be programmed with any conditions that the issuing country wants. Conditions like where and for what they can be used or embedding expiration dates.
Thailand gave their people about $300 worth of Thai baht that could only be spent within a 10km radius of your home and expires in 6 months. It's a small step to tying CBDCs to a social credit system - then things get really bad.

That already exists here.

If you run a company, every transaction has to have a tax code, and there are regulations on the types of transactions you can make.

Your money has a built in expectation. If you put $1,000 under your bed in 1980, the value it was then and now has changed.

They can make all of the scary changes without a blockchain type currency and they have.

Try to go pull out $10,001 dollars in cash from your bank and tell me how it goes (you typically can to do something like buy a car, but there will be questions and the transaction will be flagged and reported).

a reply to: CriticalStinker

Try saving up $10,000 when your unspent cash expires in 30 days.
Things may be bad now, CBDCs will make it exponentially worse.

originally posted by: underpass61
a reply to: CriticalStinker

Try saving up $10,000 when your unspent cash expires in 30 days.
Things may be bad now, CBDCs will make it exponentially worse.

They can do that now with inflation.

a reply to: CriticalStinker

Lol, ok

Can they "do that with inflation" to each person individually depending on their standing with the government?

Melding AI, Blockchain & quantum technology to create a global digital economy in many ways will be revolutionary. But, as with most corruptible, fallible human ingenuity, it will most likely lead to disaster. Everything will be automated, controlled by AI. Humans will hand off more and more responsibility to technology which will enslave us even more to the system as we become 100% dependent on our new masters; robots & Smart devices.

In a centralized, cashless, IoT society, God forbid an internet or power outage. Or hackers. As AI continues to blur the boundaries between reality and imagination, I'm sure the confusion and uncertainty will lead to an existential crisis for the majority of humanity. At some point, everyone will opt in for brain chips and the metamorphosis to cyborg transhumanism will be complete.

In this clip, Edward Snowden warns about the surveillance state he envisions within 5 years

x.com...

Digital currency is still a major unknown. I'm not referring to just exactly how it works, but instead.... just exactly how does it work in everyday lives for the average people.

If you buy/get/give/sell/donate:

items from a garage or rummage sale, your brother's old boat, your friend's used car, online local market place items, lawn mowing services from the 13 year old neighbor who mows your lawn, dirty sleeping bag or other laundry at the laundry mat, your children's weekly allowance, tip your hair dresser or waitstaff, money to bums on the street, take a once in a decade ride on public transportation, your excess eggs to local neighbors, use a carwash or extra time to vacuum your car at the carwash, M&M's or peanuts from the gumball machines, lemonade stand purchases, tooth fairy deposits, strip club dancer tips, trying to 'win' prizes at the claw machine, 'personal' items in a public restroom vending machine, slip $20 bucks into your granddaughters birthday card, candy bars or jerky and other items you don't need from children fundraising for their school, a baby sitter, a bag of chips from the vending machine, playing poker with the guys, buying a hotdog & coke from the little stand at your kid's baseball game, buying trinkets or small items out of state or country from little stands selling stuff you don't need while on your vacation, paying off a dirty cop, buying info from an informant, your 'smack' from Frankie down the street, a hitman to beat up your neighbor who lets his dogs crap in your yard in the middle of the night - jk...... those last few aren't in the realm of the average persons day. But you all know what I'm getting at.

The less interaction one has with others, the less cash they need. But there are so many times, especially in more populated areas where cash is a necessity. Go through your day in your mind and see where all your change or dollar bills went. And don't forget all the times you left your wallet or purse at home and need to use the $50 stashed in your car cubby for emergencies. At the moment, much of what you do is between only you and your payee. Digital makes everything trackable. It has to, or there would be no way to handle disputes. Currently, some digital currencies seems to be off the record but that would have to change. But, do you want the government and other financial agencies knowing how and where you spent every single cent? Your whole life would be an even more open book. And the cost to overhaul small coin operations would be ridiculous so you can kiss all those conveniences good bye. And forget teaching your children about the value of a dollar, or saving for a skateboard. And let's face it, a LOT of people make or supplement their living under the table.

But on topic, here's a site that helped me better understand CBDC:

cointelegraph.com...

originally posted by: underpass61
a reply to: CriticalStinker

Lol, ok

Can they "do that with inflation" to each person individually depending on their standing with the government?

Absolutely.

What happens to the bank accounts of people who are charged with certain crimes? Frozen.

What happens when people are convicted of certain crimes? Asset forfeiture.

Maybe it would make it slightly easier for them, but those are things that can absolutely and to happen now.

My point has never been that CBDC is completely benevolent. It’s that I find the outright fear a little confusing considering this is mainly an update to the mechanisms and doesn’t really inherently change the actual system too much.

I’ve shown pros and cons, and tried to do so in a way that people can gauge if it’s truly alarming for their ideology.

It still takes days to settle certain transactions and we live in a time when people want instantaneous. I think it’s inevitable some type of overhaul happen to speed up the back end transaction.

All that said, that absolutely can and do the very things people are worried about with current fiat.

I don’t like the federal reserve, I don’t trust fiat, it’s why I own a broad mix of assets to hedge myself. A decent amount of that mix is decentralized crypto.

But I think the worst thing that could happen is the discussion of monetary policy becomes a political football. I think it should be agnostic and in the good of the people. It shouldn’t be as complicated as it is, with so many hands in the cookie jar.

Honestly, the only real question you have to ask yourself to know which direction we are headed in is, "who will be in charge?"

a reply to: CriticalStinker

What happens if you don't keep your money in the bank? With CBDCs it won't matter. Surprised that you would be so okay with giving up all control over your finances.

a reply to: CriticalStinker

The " Middleman " would then Lose his Priviledge of " Wetting his Beak " on Every Monetary Transaction thus Preventing the Theft of Wealth from Others . I Think it's a Great Freakin' Idea Myself !

originally posted by: underpass61
a reply to: CriticalStinker

What happens if you don't keep your money in the bank? With CBDCs it won't matter. Surprised that you would be so okay with giving up all control over your finances.

What protection mechanisms are in place right now that we would lose?

What is safer about a debit card tied to a bank account vs a central crypto dollar?



And for the record, I’ve at no point indicated that I’m “ok” with the current state of affairs with the monetary system. And as I’ve said, most of my assets are not liquid currency.

Even if you trust the current system, you lose money if you hold money. Best to have assets that are tied to other intrinsic value like real estate, stocks, and I like crypto but wouldn’t recommend it to most people. It is risky, and you really have to be educated on how it all works. There are no safeguards in the decentralized coins. That’s not to say it’s not “safe”, but there’s a difference with buying and holding in Coinbase and storing everything in cold wallets.

a reply to: Zanti Misfit

In theory, it could take quite the chunk out of the normalized 2% fee on all card transactions.

I have little faith that would be allowed to happen, but it certainly could be done if people demanded it.

originally posted by: CriticalStinker

originally posted by: underpass61
a reply to: CriticalStinker

What happens if you don't keep your money in the bank? With CBDCs it won't matter. Surprised that you would be so okay with giving up all control over your finances.

What protection mechanisms are in place right now that we would lose?

What is safer about a debit card tied to a bank account vs a central crypto dollar?



And for the record, I’ve at no point indicated that I’m “ok” with the current state of affairs with the monetary system. And as I’ve said, most of my assets are not liquid currency.

Even if you trust the current system, you lose money if you hold money. Best to have assets that are tied to other intrinsic value like real estate, stocks, and I like crypto but wouldn’t recommend it to most people. It is risky, and you really have to be educated on how it all works. There are no safeguards in the decentralized coins. That’s not to say it’s not “safe”, but there’s a difference with buying and holding in Coinbase and storing everything in cold wallets.

Honestly FTX and Sam Bankman Fried did cryptocurrency no favors, in a few years he ripped off billions. Enough where the grifters of yesteryear would be in awe. From April 2019 to November 2022 they took 40 billion dollars if not more, it is a huge black eye for cryptocurrency and a red flag for those who want to push regulation. Whatever it is it is still volatile AH too volatile for most investors.

there's still much resistance and skepticism, much like talking about cryptozoology.

a reply to: putnam6

FTX was horrendous.

They were vertically integrated, having both tokens, an exchange (basically a brokerage), and a trading house where they gambled themselves.

Being an exchange, they housed a lot tokens for people (like a bank).

They used those funds to gamble on other cryptos, and lost.

What they did was horrible, and you’re correct that it’s a black eye on crypto.

But crypto is known to be the Wild West. Keeping your tokens with an exchange for long periods of time is a no no. There’s a saying, not your keys, not your wallet.

Don’t keep your money with exchanges, use them for on and off ramps.

What’s not widely known as the Wild West is the banking system and stock market. Most people are OK there for the most time yea?

Has there been instances of banks gambling customer money? Absolutely, that’s what in large part caused 08’. There used to be regulations on what funds they could use, typically money market accounts where they could invest and pay out people who had those rule of checking accounts with money sitting in them.

The moral of the story isn’t that I’m saying one is worse than the other. It’s that you’re your only advocate. I don’t trust either system, I don’t promote either system, but I do engage in both.

originally posted by: CriticalStinker
a reply to: 5thHead

I never understood the fear of a CBDC.

I don’t like the federal reserve system, I think it’s inflationary and dangerous by nature… but the CBDC would basically just be a blockchain ledger of big transfers on the backend. It would make for faster transactions.

The fear of it being more digital doesn’t change the structure we currently have. 90% of money is digital. Your bank accounts can still be frozen. There are still limits on the ways you can withdraw your money.

I’m bullish on Bitcoin, but I don’t think there should be a huge effort for our monetary system to invest in it.

The danger of a government digital coin is that it will be weaponized against "We the people". And you can take that to THEIR bank.

a reply to: CriticalStinker

Wars were Fought over Less . Economic Slavery is an Unnatural Condition , it Never Turns Out Well .....

originally posted by: NoCorruptionAllowed

originally posted by: CriticalStinker
a reply to: 5thHead

I never understood the fear of a CBDC.

I don’t like the federal reserve system, I think it’s inflationary and dangerous by nature… but the CBDC would basically just be a blockchain ledger of big transfers on the backend. It would make for faster transactions.

The fear of it being more digital doesn’t change the structure we currently have. 90% of money is digital. Your bank accounts can still be frozen. There are still limits on the ways you can withdraw your money.

I’m bullish on Bitcoin, but I don’t think there should be a huge effort for our monetary system to invest in it.

The danger of a government digital coin is that it will be weaponized against "We the people". And you can take that to THEIR bank.

What safeguards will be lost in transitioning from 90% digital money to some percentage being a digital coin?

Even if it gets to the point we buy online with CBDC for every day transactions, what safeguards are lost?

Can they not right now print trillions of dollars, freeze your bank accounts, cancel your cards, seize your house? At best, the coin would make transactions fully settle faster, and make the feds do all their freezes faster. We’re talking a day or two on either count.

Can the government take your wallet out of your pocket and empty it? Crypto currency can be stored offline in something called a hardware wallet, no banks or exchanges required. CBDC tech allows them the ability to delete or confiscate your money right out of your wallet, something not possible with other cryptos.
I know they're going to do it eventually, I'd recommend at least buying some quality cryptos and getting a hardware wallet (I have assets spread out over 5 wallets) just to save for a rainy day where the govt can't get their greasy hands on it.

originally posted by: CriticalStinker
a reply to: putnam6

FTX was horrendous.

They were vertically integrated, having both tokens, an exchange (basically a brokerage), and a trading house where they gambled themselves.

Being an exchange, they housed a lot tokens for people (like a bank).

They used those funds to gamble on other cryptos, and lost.

What they did was horrible, and you’re correct that it’s a black eye on crypto.

But crypto is known to be the Wild West. Keeping your tokens with an exchange for long periods of time is a no no. There’s a saying, not your keys, not your wallet.

Don’t keep your money with exchanges, use them for on and off ramps.

What’s not widely known as the Wild West is the banking system and stock market. Most people are OK there for the most time yea?

Has there been instances of banks gambling customer money? Absolutely, that’s what in large part caused 08’. There used to be regulations on what funds they could use, typically money market accounts where they could invest and pay out people who had those rule of checking accounts with money sitting in them.

The moral of the story isn’t that I’m saying one is worse than the other. It’s that you’re your only advocate. I don’t trust either system, I don’t promote either system, but I do engage in both.

Its the perception...

I know it's more secure but there is that nagging perception, and yeah it's the older generation, nobody trusts anybody with thier money, right off the bat. Sure there are plenty of other financial institutions that rip you and leave you high and dry. Defunct Life Insurance companies for instance, but those scams are kind of known. With crypto, the masses will take some time to convince, if ever.

Conversely, I have no problem with the government investing in Bitcoin as RFKjr has proposed, hell other governments of the world are doing this again Qatar supposedly was up to thier necks, and thier sell-offs were when one of the big bubbles burst.

If the government were able to invest and lower the tax rate or cut into the national deficit in a meaningful way perhaps make it more attractive initially

originally posted by: CriticalStinker

originally posted by: NoCorruptionAllowed

originally posted by: CriticalStinker
a reply to: 5thHead

I never understood the fear of a CBDC.

I don’t like the federal reserve system, I think it’s inflationary and dangerous by nature… but the CBDC would basically just be a blockchain ledger of big transfers on the backend. It would make for faster transactions.

The fear of it being more digital doesn’t change the structure we currently have. 90% of money is digital. Your bank accounts can still be frozen. There are still limits on the ways you can withdraw your money.

I’m bullish on Bitcoin, but I don’t think there should be a huge effort for our monetary system to invest in it.

The danger of a government digital coin is that it will be weaponized against "We the people". And you can take that to THEIR bank.

What safeguards will be lost in transitioning from 90% digital money to some percentage being a digital coin?

Even if it gets to the point we buy online with CBDC for every day transactions, what safeguards are lost?

Can they not right now print trillions of dollars, freeze your bank accounts, cancel your cards, seize your house? At best, the coin would make transactions fully settle faster, and make the feds do all their freezes faster. We’re talking a day or two on either count.

Well, they did that during the Great Depression, and thats why people's great grandparents and or grandparents kept cash and valuables hidden at home. It took after WWII and into the 50s and 60s for the trust to slowly return. People are funky about thier money.

Not saying it's completely right but it's thier money they can do whatever they want to with it. You can't tell a generation that Social Security won't be there for them, after paying into it for decades and expect them to trust whatever system the government wants to use.

I just found out how much my SS will be if I were to take an early retirement, it's depressingly and pitifully low.

Good thing I want to work till my mid-70s.