5.56/7.62 guns best postion in hand

every body talking about hardware but what about software.
i mean how to handle the automatic guns.
here is few i got
NSG india



SSG pakistan


i dont know which is the best but my vote goes to NSG

and every body plz help me to find out right tech. to handle guns i know it is diffrent in world but which is best.

[edit on 17-4-2005 by mirza2003]

Well the above position is less relaxed also its a 9mm mp5 i think.

You can't do much in the position displayed in the top picture.

In Russia, the police put the strap around the neck, but with enough slack so that the weapon is hanging right under the armpit, alongside the torso, with the butt almost againt the armpit and the barrel pointing down. This way your hands are free to do whatever you need to do, the weapon can't be pulled off your shoulder, and if you need to fire it's easy to position it, as the butt is already close to the shoulder.

any body help on that topic i am back after long time hi to

The picture under looks best, the hand is relaxed, but still close to the weapon...

The second pic is more relax and safer if your weapon was to fire accidently, the
bullet would hit the ground or your big toe in the worst case senario.

The first picture seems for a kodak moment only, see how if he try to raise the weapon in a hurry to aim it get stuck under his armpit, I doubt the dude walk like that permanently, plus it's unsafe if his weapon was to fire accidentaly he would shoot his mate in the face.

Its called ports arms, you get low port arms and high port arms.
The first one is really about safety, the bullet goes away from everyone in the group and the ground.

The low ports is really just about patroling and stuff, keeping it ethier in the shoulder or at the elbow.
At the elbow is good with a sling because you can hold it with one hand, check Id's with the other but can easily raise the weapon to stop the "bad guy".
The one in the shoulder is so you can "jump" into the "stuff that hits the fan", you can go for miles in that position because well....its comfy.

Barrel up or barrel down to the side when with both hands are both okay.

Example of what not to do:



The fundamental NRA rules for safe gun handling are:

1. Always keep the gun pointed in a safe direction.
This is the primary rule of gun safety. A safe direction means that the gun is pointed so that even if it were to go off it would not cause injury or damage. The key to this rule is to control where the muzzle or front end of the barrel is pointed at all times. Common sense dictates the safest direction, depending on different circumstances.

2. Always keep your finger off the trigger until ready to shoot.
When holding a gun, rest your finger on the trigger guard or along the side of the gun. Until you are actually ready to fire, do not touch the trigger.

3. Always keep the gun unloaded until ready to use.
Whenever you pick up a gun, immediately engage the safety device if possible, and, if the gun has a magazine, remove it before opening the action and looking into the chamber(s) which should be clear of ammunition. If you do not know how to open the action or inspect the chamber(s), leave the gun alone and get help from someone who does.

The 10 Commandments of Firearm Safety

[edit on 11-11-2005 by Regenmacher]

I dont really think its even worth noting the top picture. He obviously has no formal training with the weapon, let alone how to hold it. The pakistanis just have their weapon at hand, but on a strap. I dont have any formal training myself so I couldnt say what is the "proper" way to march with a weapon at hand but strapped.

Originally posted by Regenmacher
Barrel up, no chance on shooting your foot if you stumble...

How do you fire back?


Its safer to shoot your foot and fire back than not fire back at all.

Originally posted by devilwasp

Its safer to shoot your foot and fire back than not fire back at all.

I re-edited, depends on what your doing...if your jumping a ditch barrel up.

A firing position is not a resting positon or marching either.

If your in a urban enviroment with rooftop snipers, it's going to take longer to raise your barrel from the ground than if you carried it upright to start with.

Also faster to lower a barrel than raise one up at the target...it's called gravity.

[edit on 11-11-2005 by Regenmacher]

Originally posted by Regenmacher
I re-edited, depends on what your doing...if your jumping a ditch barrel up.

If your jumping a ditch, then surely you'd hold it in one hand..right? To use the other as stability?

Firing position is not a resting positon or marching either.

Yeah I know.

If your in a urban enviroment with rooftop snipersgoing to take longer to raise your barrel from the ground than if you carried it upright to start with. Also faster to lower a barrel than raise one...it's called gravity.

Thats one scenario, mate you can point out what port is better for what job but frankly mate low port arms is used by every military, every police force and every armed unnit in the world practically...its taught to us and frankly I've used the two out on section battle drills and frankly low ports is easier when you hit the ground.

BTW mate, are you planning on standing while shooting or taking cover?

It's all about safety. The most important issue.

Here is a hunting link, which is basic information. Combat is similar, but different. Volume of fire, mostly.

w3.agsfoundation.com...

Yeah that upper pic looks a little ...umm..non-professional..

But I can vouch for the fact that BOTH the NSG and SSG are very professional..

Originally posted by devilwasp
If your jumping a ditch, then surely you'd hold it in one hand..right? To use the other as stability?

No, no John Wayne crap like that. Two hands! A weapon becomes an extension of the body and can be used to break your fall. Extend the weapon farther out from your body for stability. It's not a vid game, it's death if you screw the pooch and fire off on yourself or your troops.

I taught hunter's and range safety for years and I rather have barrel up if hitting the ground. The butt can cushion my fall when going to a prone position. There isn't much point of sticking your barrel in the dirt first.

As for the US Army, they don't teach barrel down in double time or close order drills, it all depends on the situation.


Me-expert marksman 40/40


Ready carry position


[edit on 11-11-2005 by Regenmacher]

Originally posted by Regenmacher
No, no John Wayne crap like that.

John wayne?
You mean like holding a weapon while you move across a ditch and stop yourself from landing head first in the mud?

Two hands! A weapon becomes an extension of the body and can be used to break your fall.

You realise that when you do that you totally screw up the rifle...right?

Extend the weapon farther out from your body for stability. It's not a vid game, it's death if you screw the pooch and fire off on yourself or your troops.

Screw the pooch?

I taught hunter's and range safety for years and I rather have barrel up if hitting the ground. The butt can cushion my fall when going to a prone position. There isn't much point of sticking your barrel in the dirt first.

Well mate, range and field work is diffrent, your coming from a hunters perspective, I'm coming from a military perspective.

As for the US Army, they don't teach barrel down in double time or close order drills, it all depends on the situation.

Yeah but your not going to go into battle during double time now are you?

Me-expert marksman 40/40


Ready carry position

Notice the man in the center..

And again...

And again...

Screwing the pooch: shooting yourself or accidently discharging your weapon into the ground and ricochets into you or your squad members.

You realise that when you do that you totally screw up the rifle...right?

No, an M16 is designed to be able butt stroke the enemy and the shock of the discharging it is more than you can dream of doing to the rear receiver. I take you never used one and mine was used from pounding tent stakes to cracking open shipping containers. If you stick the barrel in the dirt falling down and clog it then fire, you're asking for a bolt ejection to the skull. So what would you rather have, a scratched butt plate or a bolt carrier thru the eye?

Well mate, range and field work is diffrent, your coming from a hunters perspective, I'm coming from a military perspective.

I was a combat engineer in the first Gulf war -note my army pic above. Safety is safety and dead is dead. I'm still alive to tell about it. Carry position depends on the situtation and there's no one size fits all. Makes me wonder what the stats are on leg injuries in this war and the number of exploding weapons due to impacted barrels.

Yeah but your not going to go into battle during double time now are you?

You bet you arse that you double time...you run around like a rat on crack. So keep your barrel up if your going to run and keep both hands on the weapon. Can't fire accurately with one arm anyway. No John Wayne's in the real army, unless you want end up like Pat Tillman.







Also don't point your weapon down on an amphibous assault, they get pissed if you sink the landing craft..

Originally posted by Regenmacher
Also don't point your weapon down on an amphibous assault, they get pissed if you sink the landing craft..

Hehe, good call...

I am rather sure that the first pic is a moving shot, thats the usual way to hold your weapon while running. Apart from better control of the weapon its a simple result of our bone structure and physics that you can run better with the arms (and subsequently your FIREarm) close to your upper body. The "barrel down" method instead is better for prolonged carrying of a weapon, because you can use your elbow or armpit as a rest.

So all in all, the way to hold your weapon depends on the situation and what you are about to do, and none of the pics above is more "professional" than the other. And how fast one could switch to a firing stance is not a viable question here, because if you expect to have enemies inbound, you choose a stance different from those examples anyway.

Originally posted by Regenmacher
No, an M16 is designed to be able butt stroke the enemy and the shock of the discharging it is more than you can dream of doing to the rear receiver. I take you never used one and mine was used from pounding tent stakes to cracking open shipping containers. If you stick the barrel in the dirt falling down and clog it then fire, you're asking for a bolt ejection to the skull. So what would you rather have, a scratched butt plate or a bolt carrier thru the eye?

Nethier, I'd carry it in the high ports with one hand while stepping over the ditch.
I'm not familiar with the M-16 but I am familiar with the L-98 cadet GP (SA-80A1 with single shot) and the LSW.
For one thing I dont want to fk up my sights by hitting the butt on the ground. I've done that before and I managed to cross fire across 4 lanes.

I was a combat engineer in the first Gulf war -note my army pic above. Safety is safety and dead is dead. I'm still alive to tell about it. Carry position depends on the situtation and there's no one size fits all.

Yes I agree, also combat engineer? You mean like our assault engineers? (Demo, basic craft work and basically every job under the sun?)

Makes me wonder what the stats are on leg injuries in this war and the number of exploding weapons due to impacted barrels.

wonder how many are from carrying it the high ports and not being able to fire back?

You bet you arse that you double time...you run around like a rat on crack. So keep your barrel up if your going to run and keep both hands on the weapon. Can't fire accurately with one arm anyway. No John Wayne's in the real army, unless you want end up like Pat Tillman.

Yeah you run, you dont double time in the proper high ports because thats hard as fk to run like.

Also don't point your weapon down on an amphibous assault, they get pissed if you sink the landing craft..

Might want to tell that to the RM, the RN and the army over here.
We get taught it and I done it last week with a RMC colour sergeant.
welll...
Thats not strictly true, we did use high port arms for most of time right up until we got to the area.


[edit on 26/02/2005 by devilwasp]

Well you stick to your way and I'll stick to mine. Never shot myself, had an accidental discharge or shot a friend...I rather keep it that way