Hamas Chief Yahya Sinwar Says ‘We Have Israelis Where We Want Them’

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

So, you have to separate the two groups and deal with them interdependently. You don't separate them physically; you can't. You separate them economically and politically.

You’re not this naive.
In which war has any country ever done that?
People like you say you have no problem with Israel defending themselves, yet put unrealistic expectations on how it’s done.
You can’t make an omelette without cracking some eggs.
You expect israel to do just that.
Get real.
When somebody singles out one group of people and hold them to an unrealistic standard that nobody else has ever been held to then you know there’s either a motive for it(antisemitism), or they’re massively uniformed.

What does Israel want if not the elimination of Palestine?

They want to be left the f alone.
No terrorism, no daily rockets flying into their country etc.

If the Palestinians surrendered tomorrow, and gave up Hamas in the process, what would Israel do?

Assuming they released the hostages too, Israeli troops would stop hunting for Hamas, and peace would resume once again.

a reply to: WeMustCare

So let's examine why Netanyahu didn't do exactly that. First of all, he would have had to know exactly where and how to do this; information he likely didn't have...unless he stole it from US intelligence, something he is most certainly not above doing...but for the fact he's been caught with his hands in the US intelligence cookie jar one too many times. Spying on your allies doesn't win you much trust, nor should it. Intelligence aside, second, he knew the retaliation by Hamas, Hezbollah and the Iranians for such a surgical attack would probably be far worse than an ambiguous attack on a random bunch of innocent civilians. That way he could claim 'like and kind' for his attack while at the same time avoiding an escalation with Iran and possibly becoming a real victim (not just an alleged one). So, it was really about PR, which is how the Israeli's play the game. They play every possible public relations angle, and don't think for a moment they don't.

Iran would have considered such an operation a clear act of War, which would have then placed himself and Israel as a whole at the mercy of the US at a time when he's not in the best of graces with the US. Ironically, doubtful as it may be, this may be one of the only things Biden has gotten right in his entire presidency, though I'm sure it is quite by accident.

Instead, Netanyahu took the easy way out and slaughtered a few hundred innocent women and children.

In even more double-irony, Biden may have done Trump a favor, again accidentally I'm sure. Trump's hands were tied dealing with Netanyahu owing to Obama's secret dealings with him during his term, and the failures of the Intelligence community in nailing Milchan. Trump should be ashamed for allowing that to perpetuate, but he didn't have any aces up his sleeve so he had no hand to play; now he does. Trump's hands won't be tied this time, and the most ironic (almost comical) part of all is...he'll have the full support of a large portion of the left voting base behind him when he does yank the carpet out from under Netanyahu. Israel will be paying full and unmitigated attention when that happens!

This sh!t needs to end!

a reply to: Vermilion

Keep drinking the coolaid while you look deeper. Things are not what they seem. You believe exactly what Israel wants you to believe. They've spent billions ensuring exactly that.

originally posted by: Flyingclaydisk
However, you do recognize they are two separate entities, right?

Nope. As I said -

Both want to genocide the Jews. Both want Israel destroyed. Both participated in the Oct 7 attacks. The 'palestinians' applaud, support, enable, and assist Hamas. Hamas is made of 'palestinians'. Hamas was put in power by 'palestinians' and is kept in power by 'palestinians'. So no .. not separate entities.

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

Palestinians have been offered a two state solution for decades, they’ve always refused. Israel has also had issue with the two state solution because of the Palestinians demands, mostly land, they both want Jerusalem undivided so they’re at somewhat of a impasse with each other.

As far as government Hamas rules Gaza exclusively now, at least that’s my understanding, although the Palestinian National Authority claims it, so does Hamas. It was for the most part always divided between Gaza and the West Bank. The PA/PNA in West Bank, Hamas in Gaza after the mid 2000’s elections, they don’t recognize the PA in Gaza and again that’s just my understanding. It gets very confusing when you start researching the government of the Palestinians. It’s basically a conglomeration of a big f’d up mess when it comes to Palestinian governments and who controls who. They’ve had the PLO, PNA, Fatah, Hamas and who knows who else’s mitts in the mix.

I’m not so sure that Israel wants to occupy Gaza as much as they just want to be left alone without rockets getting fired at them more often than not. Gaza has made countless unprovoked attacks on Israel throughout the years and I think Israel has had enough.

I’m definitely not saying Israel has always been innocent in their dealings with the Pals, they haven’t. Israel has also been guilty of land gabs themselves, specifically the West Bank. Not sure what the answer is because neither seem to want to coexist.

I do know there are archaeological sites, digs, synagogues, etc. that have proved Jewish settlements all over Israel including the West Bank and Gaza. Jews lived in Gaza up to the late 1920’s where they were forced out by the Arabs so they do have claim to the land that goes back centuries as does the Palestinians.

Maybe it’s best to let them exterminate each other idk, they’ve been fighting FOREVER and I don’t see that ever going away, it’s what they do.

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

So let's examine why Netanyahu didn't do exactly that. First of all, he would have had to know exactly where and how to do this;

Oh he knows exactly where and how, that’s not the issue. The issue is turning the entire Middle East into a giant bloodbath that there would be no coming back from and most likely starting WW3 as Russia has a hand in this also, they support Hamas and other terrorist in other countries. I guarantee you that Saudi Arabia doesn’t want to go to war. If Israel were to bomb Qatar and Turkey then…..we’ll you know the repercussions of those actions. It would open a can of worms that nobody wants. That’s why the Hamas leaders are in Qatar and Turkey, they’re protected there and Bibi can’t touch them, he knows that. It would spell the end for Israel and yep, the US would be smack dab in the middle of it.

a reply to: KrustyKrab

One thing you will never hear me say is that the Jews have not been long inhabitants of the region; they have. So have Christians and Arabs long inhabited the region. So, you'll get no argument from me there. Neither will you get an argument that they all have a right to peacefully coexist in this region, key word being 'peacefully'. But Israel has had a habit of getting a little big for their britches from time to time dating back all the way to the days leading up to the Arab-Israeli war in 1948. During that time the Israeli's captured not only all of the land spelled out by the UN for Israel, but also better than 50% of the land designated by the UN for the Arab state. This action created a lot of bad blood with the Arab world right from the beginnings of Israel as a state. In fact, 700,000 Palestinians were displaced as refugees during this, and they've never been repatriated.

I caution people about believing everything they hear and see about about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Things are rarely what they seem when it comes to the Israeli's, and Israel has a powerful media machine which works tirelessly to make them out to be the victims when history paints an entirely different picture, a picture where Israel is the aggressor. So, they paint a picture about 'just wanting to be left alone', but in reality there are others who 'just want their land back'.

I've known about a lot of this for years, but never really was too vocal about it because of my overwhelming distaste for much of the Islamic extremist world. But now it's time to say enough is enough (to Israel). Too many times Israel has pushed the limits of their alliances under the premise that the US would unquestionably back them against the Iranians, the Russians, the Egyptians and the Palestinians. If the US would stop backing Israel, or make them behave under threat to stop backing them, I think you would see a far more peaceful Israel. They're only stirring up trouble because they know they can get away with it.

And you are correct, neither want to coexist. Both nation-states are sworn enemies, and this will not change soon. But forcing Israel to stand on its own is a good first step. Then the world can start putting pressure on the Palestinians to divest themselves of the Hamas and Hezbollah terrorists from their midst, IF they truly want to be a state. They cannot be permitted statehood until they do this. And Israel needs to be told to sit down and stop with the threats during this process. The start of that is getting rid of Netanyahu...for good this time.

a reply to: KrustyKrab

Ummm… I think you’re not aware of the size of Gaza. Gaza in its entirety is only a little larger than 5 x 25 miles if you were to box it up as a perfect rectangle, it’s only 139 sq miles in total, that’s it, it’s about the size of Seattle. That’s why it’s so crowded and why civilian casualties are going to be high. Rafah is only a portion of that total area.

My mistake.

There shouldn’t have been civilians that stayed in Rafah, especially children, they were warned but they didn’t all leave. It’s very possible hamas didn’t allow them to leave as that is a tactic that hamas has used during this war.

Either they nowhere to go, no transport or as such.
If hamas didn't allow them to leave thats deplorable, disgusting, sick.

They need to release all kidnapped hostages that are left and hamas needs to surrender, this could all be over today if Hamas/Palestinians did this. No one else has to die needlessly, it’s senseless.

I totally agree, KK.....

a reply to: KrustyKrab

You are correct on all points with that reply. But, I can absolutely guarantee you, if this was 2014, it would have been an entirely different story and Netanyahu would have no compunction whatsoever going after Hamas in Turkey, Qatar or anywhere else...including the United States. Netanyahu needs to go.

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

Thanks for your input on the subject. It’s nice for a change to talk to reasonable people like SK2 and yourself on the topic. I believe most of us here, self included, don’t want to see innocent people die regardless if man, woman or child.

There’s a lot of dynamics at play with this mess. You can make a argument for all of them considering what’s in play. 👍

a reply to: SecretKnowledge2

Either they nowhere to go, no transport or as such. If hamas didn't allow them to leave thats deplorable, disgusting, sick.

Although I’ve seen transport being used by refugees, I’m sure it’s limited at best. So IDK how that worked out. You have to figure that Rafah is fairly small. I read the places they were sending them to but don’t remember by name, it was fairly close from the map I saw. Still sucks for them.

I did read months ago that Hamas was blocking some civilians from leaving. Research I may revisit since some time has passed, propaganda and all. If that is the case it is disgusting and disturbing on a human level.

a reply to: KrustyKrab

Thank YOU for the same! And thank you for listening. While select others often respond with nasty / hateful rejoinders to some of my posts, I really do try to be objective and understand all sides of an issue before commenting on it. Snark and insults is not a way to get people to listen to you. Admittedly, I sometimes get baited into not so nice replies myself (I'm an imperfect human), but these are often in response to some kind of a personal insult.

I don't feel I demand that everyone accept my point of view without question. That is never my intent. I instead try to share information to consider, research and for people to form their own opinions about. Often times these subjects can be unpleasant to some because they disagree with something they feel strongly about.

The Israel-Arab issue is a hot-button topic. Sadly, Israel has consciously made it that way, precisely so it it will be an extremely taboo topic to discuss before people start hurling insults and labeling people. I find it more than a little ironic that certain people allege any criticisms of the Israeli's is a direct result of propaganda coming from the Arab side. This is pretty ironic considering the Arab world has very little, if any, traction in the world mainstream media. The same cannot be said for Israel who, since the '60's, have spent billions of dollars buying and controlling mainstream media around the globe and using it to shape popular opinion about Israel. I fell into the same trap for many years also because of my anti-Islamic extremist posture. I just accepted that Israel was doing the right thing...until I looked deeply into what's really going on and realized things are not at all what they seem, nor have they been for decades.

Cheers!

a reply to: KrustyKrab

Cheers for that KK, right back atcha

Here, have a pint from an Irish man


TBH im tired of this war, this debate.

I havnt time, work beckons. Havnt had a day off in almost four weeks.

But im done debating the topic. I enjoyed it and you get my full respect.

See ya around the boards. Maybe we'll change topic soon huh

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

Cheers for the education FCD.

Here, you also get a pint from an Irish man

Keep on dreaming my friend.

a reply to: SecretKnowledge2

Right back at ya'!