all animals are created equal

I'm sure by now everybody's heard about the dog who was the recipient of a $45,000 stem cell transplant.

www.atsnn.com...


How wonderful that his owners loved him that much and were able to afford to do this for him. But what makes some animals worthy of being our companions and others merely thought of as food?

Geography certainly plays a part in the cultural status of animals. The fact that Koreans like to "chow down" on our beloved cats and dogs is a great example of this. Likewise, India's one billion inhabitants, many whom are starving, honor cows as sacred.

But even within the cultural norm there are exceptions. "Arnold" the pampered pig on "Green Acres" proved "social climbing" was possible for some farm animals. Before "factory farms" having a pet chicken, cow or pig on the farm was common.

Most people would never consider eating their pets. How could you? They're part of your family. Then why is it OK to eat theirs?

Protecting and adoring one animal simply because he was fortunate enough to be noticed then condemning the rest of his species to death, is an unjustifiable double standard.

All of Earths animals are sentient beings deserving of the life God intended for them. God's original plan for man was to be vegetarian. Only after the flood, as concession to mans sin, did God give him dominion over all living things. This clearly illustrates vegetarianism is the more spiritual path.

Some of you will argue, why are animals here if not for our use. I would reason, to experience life just like us. How arrogant to assume all of creation was made solely for our use. It's that rationale that continues to enslave and oppress our fellow man. Until the day when man finally realizes, "might doesn't make right," there can be no peace.

One of my favorite Bible verses is Acts 10:13 Rise Peter, Kill and eat.

Animals where put on Earth for our pleasure and sustinence. If God didn't want us to eat them, he would not have made them taste so good.

I have no problem with the people of the stem cell dog, it's their money!

You could say the same about drugs.

So then...What do we do about carnivores? Train them really well to just eat vegitables? Or is eating meat a right they have but we do not?

Originally posted by junglejake
So then...What do we do about carnivores? Train them really well to just e!at vegitables? Or is eating meat a right they have but we do not?

Ha ha ha! Obviously true carnivores need meat to survive. Humans are primates and not built to be carnivores. We simply aquired the bad habit of eating meat.

Originally posted by dollmonster
Ha ha ha! Obviously true carnivores need meat to survive. Humans are primates and not built to be carnivores. We simply aquired the bad habit of eating meat.

This is not true. Chimpanzees eat meat from time to time in nature and it is an important part of their diet. There is much scientific showing that as chimps and humans diverged evolutionary, our group became even more evolved and adapted to eat meat.

Originally posted by djohnsto77

Originally posted by dollmonster
Ha ha ha! Obviously true carnivores need meat to survive. Humans are primates and not built to be carnivores. We simply aquired the bad habit of eating meat.

This is not true. Chimpanzees eat meat from time to time in nature and it is an important part of their diet. There is much scientific showing that as chimps and humans diverged evolutionary, our group became even more evolved and adapted to eat meat.

I think you will find it IS true. Humans are not true carnivores and many of the health problems we suffer stem from eating what is essentially dead flesh. Also believe we have no right to exploit animals for our own gain.

Animals have the same rights to life that we have.....

Uh, we are omnivores, like chimps, means we eat both. Same with bears, raccoons, so forth, not carnivores or herbivores, but omnivores. Are teeth are what make us so, giraffes can't eat meat, at least not very well, and a wolf can't eat grass, at least not very well, the teeth are not build to eat the other kind of food. But humans, chimps, raccoons, so forth, have the dental structure that makes it so they can eat both. Also, a cows' digestive system is made to eat plants, while a wolf is made to eat meat. A human/chimp/whatever are made to eat either.

Also, PETA kills animals. They have a 10X15 walk in freezer for the bodies of animals they have euthenized(sp?) Also, PETA says medicine testing on animals and anything made from exp. on animals is wrong. The Vice President of PETA uses insulin, something made/studied from pigs and dogs. She even admitted to using insulin, but said she isn't a hypocrit because she said so. WTF? hate hypocrits. Why I am anti-PETA, anti-Christian, and anti-Republican.

Originally posted by James the Lesser
Uh, we are omnivores, like chimps, means we eat both. Same with bears, raccoons, so forth, not carnivores or herbivores, but omnivores. Are teeth are what make us so, giraffes can't eat meat, at least not very well, and a wolf can't eat grass, at least not very well, the teeth are not build to eat the other kind of food. But humans, chimps, raccoons, so forth, have the dental structure that makes it so they can eat both. Also, a cows' digestive system is made to eat plants, while a wolf is made to eat meat. A human/chimp/whatever are made to eat either.

Oh yes, the old meatarian propagandists theory that man is an omnivore.

Humans are not natural omnivores. If humans were natural omnivores, then we would have the all of the required physical and biochemical equipment that we would need to run down, then kill with our bare hands, eat the flesh by tearing and ripping and then properly digest, raw animal prey, just like all of the natural omnivores, or even carnivores, do for that matter.

At last look I didn’t have claws or talons, which would be essential for me to catch and hold animal prey. I certainly don’t have the required sharp and shearing teeth necessary to tear, not chew, animal flesh. Mind you there are some who expressed words such as witch or crone when describing me. I certainly am not fast enough to outrun and catch my dinner.

Then (this wouldn’t look good at the dinner table) natural omnivores and carnivores do not chew their eaten flesh. They tear their catch it into chunks and swallow them whole. Consuming flesh is something we have learnt to do – it is not a natural part of our make-up.

Right on however with PETA. They deserve to be exposed for what they do and condone.

Originally posted by dollmonster

All of Earths animals are sentient beings deserving of the life God intended for them. God's original plan for man was to be vegetarian. Only after the flood, as concession to mans sin, did God give him dominion over all living things. This clearly illustrates vegetarianism is the more spiritual path.

Some of you will argue, why are animals here if not for our use. I would reason, to experience life just like us. How arrogant to assume all of creation was made solely for our use. It's that rationale that continues to enslave and oppress our fellow man. Until the day when man finally realizes, "might doesn't make right," there can be no peace.

I have nothing against vegetarianism. Infact, I eat meat only about 2-3 times a month. However, I do not like the idea behind the theory "How arrogant to assume all of creation was made solely for our use".

No definately not. But, I have to live, so I eat.

What difference does it make, if I eat animals or if I eat plants. Plants are also living "beings" (Scientific fact). Just because they dont scream or bleed while being killed , does it make more moralistic sense to kill them.

You might argue that plants regenerate themselves. Well they do, but do you think they allow wheat or rice crops to regenerate. I think they plough the whole field after a harvest, killing the old plants and then plant new seeds.

I don't think vegetarians have a moral right to preach non-vegetarians about killing animals for food.

However, I do agree vegetarian food might be more healthier

*spelling

[edit on 24-4-2005 by Quake]

You might argue that plants regenerate themselves. Well they do, but do you think they allow wheat or rice crops to regenerate. I think they plough the whole field after a harvest, killing the old plants and then plant new seeds.

Most crops die off after they seed. Framers plow in to prepare the earth for replanting. I suspect if left to their devices crops such as wheat would just continue to re-seed and regrow.

If most people were aware of what happened in slaughterhouses they would never eat meat again unless they are completely soulless and heartless.

Health reasons are a bonus.

[edit on 24/4/2005 by Lady of the Lake]

I know what goes on, ever seen the footage PETA uses? Well, except they compare slaughter houses to the Jews and the genocide.(The campaign The Genocide On Your Plate was basically commercial ran that showed jews in this situation, and then a pig in kind of the same situation, except being treated better, this campaign pissed off million of families of Holocaust victims and nearly got PETA sued several times)

But guess what? According to you unless we use teeth or claws or whatever we aren't suppose to hunt. But we DO have something given to us, why us primates are special, we use tools! Chimps use tools to get food, we use tools to get food. Also, what about spiders? They don't hunt, they use traps, and so do we. What about some insects? They use camoflauge/traps, so do we.

Originally posted by dollmonster

Originally posted by junglejake
So then...What do we do about carnivores? Train them really well to just e!at vegitables? Or is eating meat a right they have but we do not?

Ha ha ha! Obviously true carnivores need meat to survive. Humans are primates and not built to be carnivores. We simply aquired the bad habit of eating meat.

Oh then I guess the crab eating macaque doesn't really eat crabs. Humans as well their cousins primates are indeed opportunistic omnivores. Instinct not Habit

the argument has been made that humans are not equiped to hunt. no claws, sharp teeth or the fact that we are not fast enough to catch our prey. actualy we have the best systom OUR BRAINS, humans ability to use tools.we don't need to use things like claws or speed. only humans invent complicated devices. from a hrdened, pointed stick, to guns.

we are also the ONLY creature to be able to make and controll fire. ever see most reactions of animals to fire? they run.most animals have fur or other protections from the elements, humans have the ABILITY to make clothing, from crude animal fur/ leather vestments to the modern clothing we have today. if we didn't have this ability we would have died long ago. even desert lands can get quite cold at night. so without that ability we would not survive, especialy when it comes to babies.

so to follow your reasoning, humans not haveing a "natural" protection to the elements should not even survive, and we wouldn't without the same brain and abilities to THINK, and to MANIPULATE objects to our use. the SAME thing that alows us to hunt is ALSO the same ability that alows us to survive temperatures and elements.

Vegetarians are entitled to their own opinions but not their own facts. The facts are that humans are natural omnivores and most likely are built to have the largest meat to vegetable ratio natural diet among primates.

Originally posted by drogo
........humans have the ABILITY to make clothing, from crude animal fur/ leather vestments to the modern clothing we have today. if we didn't have this ability we would have died long ago. even desert lands can get quite cold at night. so without that ability we would not survive, especialy when it comes to babies.

You don't have to kill the animal to make clothing, which is suitable for survival in cold climates. Humans have been weaving cloth from both wool and plants for thousands of years. There are indigenous races who are desert dwellers and they wear no animals skins..they survive. We have the ability to survive without using animals.

Unlike most in the animal kingdom who kill off the weak, which is part of their survival system we breed animals specifically to kill them. We slaughter millions and millions of healthy animals per year. We have no right to do that.

Why, then, do humans need protien? Why is our metabolism set up so as to be able to digest meat if we're not supposed to eat it? Why, as James said, do we have canine teeth, unlike any herbavore on the entire planet?

As you pointed out, we don't have talons or anything like that. However, that doesn't mean we weren't supposed to eat meat. Maybe we're carrion feeders. Or maybe evolution (no frickin' clue how it could do this) compensated the lack of body weapons with the ability to make tools to get food.

And finally, cow tastes really good!

Not only that but our metabolism is unable to properly digest vegetable material (cellulose). The ancient humans were hunters-gatherers, combining meat and fruit. Grain-farmin (wheat, barley etc') is a relatively new invention.

Hell, PETA doesn't even agree with you! They kill over 1,300 animals a year at the PETA headquarters alone! They have a 10x15 foot walk in freezer for the dead bodies. Or the "Save the dolphin, don't eat tuna." Gee, what about the tuna? "Go to hell." Just wait for the BS Bus Tour on PETA, you shall learn.

ALso, again, spiders(some do) don't hunt, they use traps. Insects use camoflague. Some mammals use camoflague/traps. APes, Crows, so forth use tools.

I have to agree with James, vultures simply wait for something to die and then they eat them -- talk about opportunists. There is baboon population that eats termites. Their fingers aren't able to reach into the termite mounds so they have been known to use long sticks to poke into the mounds to extract the termites. And, furthermore, humans are omnivores as that classification depends upon both tooth structure and formation as well as the length of the intestines: respective short and long intestinal length determines vegetarian and carnivore diets. Medium intestinal length, as found in humans and primates denote the clasification of omnivorous diets which allow us to eat a vegetarian diet as well as to produce the intestinal enzymes required to consume meat. I won't even begin to discuss the diets of bacteria and virus except to say that we are all food for something