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originally posted by: rigel4
2: The number of human beings killed in the name of your god or gods of others
originally posted by: Solvedit
originally posted by: burritocat
Oh, if you mean like Muslims being violent today, then yeah Islam in that regard is worse. However, the only reason Christianity is not currently as bad as Islam is because it has been been overcome and reduced in power severely. It has had its teeth pulled, so it cant hurt people like they used to.
You're mixed up. Christianity is a good thing to have. Those in power formerly obtained more power by withholding access to it.
Doing so has become more difficult, so it is more difficult to obtain power by withholding access to it.
And at the dawn of the enlightenment, most of the scientists who brought the changes about were in fact devoted Christians. So get your facts straight.
originally posted by: TzarChasm
a reply to: FlyInTheOintment
The need to assert your church as the one superior authority over all other metaphysical authorities, is what crosses the line from spiritual wisdom to dogma and cult behaviors. It's extremely off putting, no one of any expertise is going to say "I'm the best" because that's not authority, that's EGO and any informed audience will immediately pick up on it.
originally posted by: Solvedit
originally posted by: rigel4
2: The number of human beings killed in the name of your god or gods of others
Besides the fact that Atheism has been the deadliest dogma per year in the short time it has had political power,
There is also the fact that conflict has underlying issues which people use religion to cope with. If the Umayyads had tried to conquer the Middle East, North Africa, and Europe under a secular unification, and the Europeans had found some other way besides Christianity to push the invaders back, it need not have played out any less bloody than the Muslim conquest followed by the Crusades.
Do you seriously think people would get along better without religion?
originally posted by: rigel4
originally posted by: Solvedit
originally posted by: rigel4
2: The number of human beings killed in the name of your god or gods of others
Besides the fact that Atheism has been the deadliest dogma per year in the short time it has had political power,
There is also the fact that conflict has underlying issues which people use religion to cope with. If the Umayyads had tried to conquer the Middle East, North Africa, and Europe under a secular unification, and the Europeans had found some other way besides Christianity to push the invaders back, it need not have played out any less bloody than the Muslim conquest followed by the Crusades.
Do you seriously think people would get along better without religion?
Yes i do
originally posted by: burritocat
The poorest, most unstable parts of the world are also the most religious. The least religious places are also the most peaceful.
it was the manifestation of Christian ethics in the collective unconscious of the people of Christendom for two thousand years who were enabled by the blessing of the new covenant to create the circumstances in which rational science was able to flourish. Without Christiantiy, the West would still be a muddy, petty, warring pagan affair
originally posted by: FlyInTheOintment
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There is much in the way of attacks against the faith when it comes to the accusation that Christianity usurped traditional pagan festivals & sacred sites, ...
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What Is False Religion?
Are you distressed about crimes committed in the name of religion? Do the warfare, terrorism, and corruption perpetrated by those who claim to serve God offend your sense of justice? Why does religion seem to be at the root of so many problems?
The fault lies, not with all religion, but with false religion. A widely respected religious figure, Jesus Christ, indicated that false religion produces bad works, just as a “rotten tree produces worthless fruit.” (Matthew 7:15-17) What fruit does false religion yield?
False Religion . . .
◼ MEDDLES IN WAR AND POLITICS: “Across Asia and beyond,” says the journal Asiaweek, “power-hungry leaders are cynically manipulating people’s religious sentiments for their own needs.” As a result, the journal warns: “The world threatens to sink into madness.” A prominent religious leader in the United States declared: “You’ve got to kill the terrorists before the killing stops.” His solution? “Blow them all away in the name of the Lord.” By contrast, the Bible says: “If anyone makes the statement: ‘I love God,’ and yet is hating his brother, he is a liar.” (1 John 4:20) Jesus even said: “Continue to love your enemies.” (Matthew 5:44) How many religions can you think of whose members engage in war?
◼ SPREADS FALSE DOCTRINE: Most religions teach that the soul or spirit is some invisible part of a human that survives the death of the physical body. By means of this teaching, many of these religions exploit their members, charging money to pray for departed souls. However, the Bible teaches a different doctrine. “The soul that is sinning—it itself will die.” (Ezekiel 18:4) “The living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all.” (Ecclesiastes 9:5) Jesus taught that the dead will be resurrected—an unnecessary action if humans had an immortal soul. (John 11:11-25) Does your religion teach that the soul does not die?
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... In time, Babylonish religious beliefs and practices spread to many lands. So Babylon the Great became a fitting name for false religion as a whole.
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Ancient Babylonian religious concepts and practices are found in religions worldwide
“Egypt, Persia, and Greece felt the influence of the Babylonian religion . . . The strong admixture of Semitic elements both in early Greek mythology and in Grecian cults is now so generally admitted by scholars as to require no further comment. These Semitic elements are to a large extent more specifically Babylonian.”—The Religion of Babylonia and Assyria (Boston, 1898), M. Jastrow, Jr., pp. 699, 700.
Their gods: There were triads of gods, and among their divinities were those representing various forces of nature and ones that exercised special influence in certain activities of mankind. (Babylonian and Assyrian Religion, Norman, Okla.; 1963, S. H. Hooke, pp. 14-40) “The Platonic trinity, itself merely a rearrangement of older trinities dating back to earlier peoples, appears to be the rational philosophic trinity of attributes that gave birth to the three hypostases or divine persons taught by the Christian churches. . . . This Greek philosopher’s [Plato’s] conception of the divine trinity . . . can be found in all the ancient [pagan] religions.”—Nouveau Dictionnaire Universel (Paris, 1865-1870), edited by M. Lachâtre, Vol. 2, p. 1467.
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originally posted by: burritocat
The least religious places are also the most peaceful.
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Who Make the Decisions?
Austrian economist Schumpeter wrote: “The orientation toward war is mainly fostered by the domestic interests of ruling classes but also by the influence of all those who stand to gain individually from a war policy, whether economically or socially.” These ruling classes have been defined as “elites [that] are at all times involved in trying to manipulate other elements of the population, or the public mood itself, so as to perpetuate themselves in power.”—Why War? by Professors Nelson and Olin.
Every nation has its ruling class, even though that group may be divided into different political factions. However, many observe that the power of the military elite in every nation should not be underestimated. Former U.S. Ambassador John K. Galbraith describes the military establishment as “by far the most powerful of the autonomous processes of government.” ...
Religion brings conflict and instability.
Especially the Abrahamic religions, which are the most combative, disagreeable philosophies on the planet. They are also the most opposed to science and progress.
As soon as modern science was born in the 17th century, ... Spectacular scientific breakthroughs enveloped science in a halo of infallibility and authority, producing scientism, a religion in itself, a sacred cow. ...
This attitude toward religion was intensified by the Enlightenment, an intellectual movement that swept Europe during the 17th and 18th centuries. Stressing intellectual and material progress, ... “Its ancestral roots,” says The New Encyclopædia Britannica, were found “in Greek philosophy.” [whereislogic: pagan Greek philosophy to be more exact, again, see my previous comment concerning Babylon the Great/false religion.]
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Charles Darwin published his book On the Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection on November 24, 1859. But the idea of evolution actually stems from pre-Christian times. For example, Greek philosopher Aristotle pictured man at the top of a line evolving from lower animal life. At first, clergymen rejected Darwin’s theory, but The Book of Popular Science notes: “Evolution [later] became something more than a scientific theory . . . It became a battle cry and even a philosophy.” The idea of survival of the fittest appealed to people striving to get to the top of the ladder.
Clergy resistance soon withered. ...
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Today, many thoughtful scientists seriously question the theory of evolution. Sir Fred Hoyle, founder of the Cambridge Institute of Theoretical Astronomy and associate member of the American National Academy of Sciences, wrote some ten years ago: “Personally, I have little doubt that scientific historians of the future will find it mysterious that a theory which could be seen to be unworkable came to be so widely believed.”
Striking as it does at the very basis of human existence, evolution robs the Creator of his due. It also belies its claim to be scientific and does no credit to mankind’s ongoing search for scientific truth. Karl Marx was glad to embrace evolution and ‘survival of the fittest’ to bolster the rise of Communism. But evolution is a villain of the vilest kind.
Who Are the Victims?
Anyone misled into believing pseudoscientific theories becomes a victim. But even believing scientific truths poses a danger. The spectacular scientific advances resulting from the scientific revolution deceived many into believing that now nothing was beyond reach.
This belief was intensified as scientific progress continued to erode the antiscientific attitude false religion had once fostered. Commerce and politics began recognizing science as a powerful tool to be used in achieving their goals, be it monetary reward or consolidation of political power.
Clearly stated, science was slowly developing into a god, giving rise to scientism. Webster’s Ninth New Collegiate Dictionary defines this as “an exaggerated trust in the efficacy of the methods of natural science applied to all areas of investigation.”
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The god of war, conflict and the modus operandi of 'divide and conquer' (nationalism is well described by the psalmist’s expression, “the pestilence causing adversities.” (Psalm 91:3) Albert Einstein once said: “Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind.” Nearly everybody gets it at one time or another, and it continues to spread. It has been like a plague on humanity, leading to untold suffering. Nationalism with its resultant hatred of other peoples has existed for centuries. Today, nationalism continues to fan the flames of divisiveness, and human rulers have not been able to stop it.):
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Since 1914, two world wars and over a hundred smaller conflicts have spilled an ocean of blood. A century ago, French writer Guy de Maupassant said that “the egg from which wars are hatched” is patriotism, which he called “a kind of religion.” In fact, The Encyclopedia of Religion says that patriotism’s cousin, nationalism, “has become a dominant form of religion in the modern world, preempting a void left by the deterioration of traditional religious values.” (Italics ours.) By failing to promote true worship, false religion created the spiritual vacuum into which nationalism was able to pour.
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Of course, religiously motivated wars are nothing new. But in contrast with the past when nations of different religions warred with one another, the 20th century has increasingly found nations of the same religion locked in bitter conflict. The god of nationalism has clearly been able to manipulate the gods of religion. Thus, during World War II, while Catholics and Protestants in Great Britain and the United States were killing Catholics and Protestants in Italy and Germany, Buddhists in Japan were doing the same to their Buddhist brothers in southeast Asia.
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But what kind of religion would put government above God and offer its own members as political sacrifices on the altar of the god of war?
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Down through history the priestly class has been the willing accomplice of the ruling elite. In time of war, religious leaders have piously blessed weapons and armies on both sides in the name of God, while often professing the same religion. This blasphemy has turned many people away from religion and God.
Nationalism—The “Sacred Egoism” That Divides
Sometimes the people are not in favor of a war. On what basis, then, can the rulers most easily persuade the population to support their aims? This was the problem that faced the United States in Vietnam. So, what did the ruling elite do? Galbraith answers: “The Vietnam War produced in the United States one of the most comprehensive efforts in social conditioning [adjusting of public opinion] in modern times. Nothing was spared in the attempt to make the war seem necessary and acceptable to the American public.” And that points to the handiest tool for softening up a nation for war. What is it?
Professor Galbraith again supplies the answer: “Schools in all countries inculcate the principles of patriotism. . . . The conditioning that requires all to rally around the flag is of particular importance in winning subordination to military and foreign policy.” This systematic conditioning prevails in communist countries as it does in Western nations.
Charles Yost, a veteran of the U.S. Foreign Service and State Department, expressed it thus: “The primary cause of the insecurity of nations persists, the very attribute on which nations pride themselves most—their sovereign independence, their ‘sacred egoism,’ their insubordination to any interest broader or higher than their own.” This “sacred egoism” is summed up in divisive nationalism, in the pernicious teaching that any one nation is superior to all others.
Historian Arnold Toynbee wrote: “The spirit of nationality is a sour ferment of the new wine of democracy in the old bottles of tribalism.” In Power and Immortality, Dr. Lopez-Reyes wrote: “Sovereignty is a major cause of contemporary war; . . .” The emphasis on nationalism and sovereignty denies the basic concept that we all belong to the same human family, regardless of linguistic or cultural differences. And that denial leads to wars.
Yes, the experts can come up with all kinds of explanations of why man systematically sets out to destroy those of his own kind. Yet there is one primary factor that most commentators ignore.
The Hidden Cause of War
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