International law versus "rules-based order"

Hello ATS!

Today I would like to touch on a very interesting topic; on our forum it is sometimes mentioned as “double standards” or “overthinking”.

Once upon a time, when I still played a little computer games, one of the few games that I remember now was Red Alert 2, released in 2000. Brief story:

The Soviet army intervenes in the civil war in Mexico, supporting the rebels fighting against the pro-American government, which angers the American president... Further confrontation leads to the fact that the USSR and the USA are ready to start a new world war.

Having learned about the movement of Soviet military equipment across the Atlantic to the shores of North America, Dugan contacts Romanov via telephone and demands to stop the emerging invasion, after which he orders the use of the American nuclear arsenal against the Soviet Union.

Does this remind you of anything? One to one plot with the war in Ukraine. Why are two similar stories perceived so differently in the West? In my opinion, because of a simple thing - Westerners believe in the racist narrative instilled in them that the world should be governed exclusively by “rules-based order”.

I am more than sure that you have repeatedly heard the phrase “Order based on rules” in completely different sources. Most often it is used in a context like “Russia is undermining the rules-based order,” and in general we are constantly portrayed in a negative light.

It is worth noting that only representatives of “civilized” countries from the “blooming garden” speak about “Order based on rules”. In response to all requests from the “grimy” representatives of the “jungle” to provide a list of these rules, they usually remain silent and do not provide anything.

In general, all international relations are regulated by international law. This is a certain set of rules and laws that everyone must comply with for normal international activities. Well, so that cars can cross borders, goods and services can be provided on the territory of different states, so that you can travel, and so on. These rules have been formed over decades and centuries, starting from ancient times. Well, it is quite logical that international law as a whole is governed by the UN. It is at the UN that this very international law is agreed upon, and there are also mechanisms to resolve emerging disputes between states and companies and individuals. In general, it is a normal, long-established mechanism.

Back during the Cold War, the Western bloc began to form its own system of laws and rules, which they themselves consider much more liberal, with a full set of rights and freedoms and the rule of law, and in general they believe that their “Rules-Based Order” can do the world is a better place. By the way, the full name is: “Rules-based liberal international order.”

But when the Cold War ended and the countries of the former socialist camp entered the international arena, international law existed for them, and accordingly they are trying to build relations on the norms and rules that were established and agreed upon at the UN. The Western bloc is trying to impose its own laws and rules, which they have formed for themselves within their bloc.

It is clear that the rules-based order is aimed primarily at taking into account the interests of the countries of the Western bloc, which countries such as Russia, China, Iran and many others are categorically opposed to.

So this problem arises, that Russia is “undermining” the rules-based order, because it initially does not take into account the interests of Russia itself.

Let me quote the US Declaration of Independence:

“We proceed from these self-evident truths, that all men are created equal, and are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.”

It seems to me that ignoring and violating the fundamental ideas written in the Declaration of Independence is leading the country and society to collapse. The fate of the 3rd Reich is indicative.

Thank you.

originally posted by: RussianTroll
The Soviet army intervenes in the civil war in Mexico, supporting the rebels fighting against the pro-American government,....

Yeah, sounds like something Russia would do. Interfere with something going on all the way on the other side of the world that doesn't effect them at all, and doing so in such a way as to undermine America. Provocation. Yep ... that has 'Russia' written all over it.

I know that's not the point of your thread but that jumped out at me and I thought I'd comment.

a reply to: FlyersFan

Thank you for so clearly demonstrating the doublethink and double standards I describe in this thread, as well as the application of this in the topics you promote on the forum in relation to one Middle Eastern country.

a reply to: RussianTroll

Russia is conducting full scale genocide in Ukraine, killing civilians left and right and you're talking about the international law. Your president tramples all the freedoms that citizens should have and you cite the Declaration of Independence. Seriously, that you have a nerve. That Russia still remains the UN member is a sign that the world is indeed crazy. But the UN has always been a joke, no surprise here. The UN is a place for Russia now to spread there its hideous propaganda. Fortunately, it's always countered by those who are aware of the Russian government's true motivations. I will answer your obvious lies, using the words of the Polish minister, Sikorski, who exposed the lies and machinations of the Russian ambassador on the UN forum:

Ambassador Nebenzya has called Kyiv a client of the West. Actually, Kyiv is fighting to be independent of anybody.

"He calls them a criminal Kyiv regime. In fact, Ukraine has a democratically elected government.


He calls them Nazis. Well, the president is Jewish, the defence minister is Muslim, and they have no political prisoners.

"He said that Ukraine was wallowing in corruption. Well, Alexei Navalny documented how honest and full of probity his own country is.

"He blamed the war on US neo-colonialism. In fact, Russia was trying to exterminate Ukraine in the 19th century, again under Bolsheviks, and now it is the third attempt.


He said we are prisoners of Russophobia. 'Phobia' means irrational fear. Yet, we are being threatened almost every day by the former president of Russia and Putin’s propagandists with nuclear annihilation. I put it to you that it is not irrational – when Russia threatens us, we trust them.

He also says that there was an illegal coup in Kyiv in 2014. I was there. There was no coup. President Yanukovych murdered a hundred of his compatriots and was removed from office by a democratically elected Ukrainian parliament, including by his own party, the Party of Regions.

Such demagoguery is unworthy of a member on a permanent basis of the Security Council. But what the ambassador has achieved is to remind us why we resisted Soviet domination and what Ukraine is resisting now.

Polish FM hits back at claims by Russia's UN envoy.

I didn't play Red Alert 2 but any synopsis available online shows you had it all backwards. Russia is portrayed there as an ultimate aggressor attacking the US and Europe unprovoked. Also the situation in Mexico was shown as something completely different from what you described, with the Soviet puppet regime installed there without much of the US reaction, let alone retaliation.

You're a downright liar. Everything you write, every tiny unimportant detail has to be checked because, for goodness sake, you can't even get the PC game storyline straight, let alone the international situation. Just give yourself a f***ing break already. I'm not even sure if you post these ridiculous and absurd lies for yourr own amusement or you're on your government payroll. If the former is true, then I hope you have fun. In the case of the latter being true, I only wonder why Putin hasn't yet sold his palace with golden loos to pay the maintenance bills here.

a reply to: twistedpuppy

Sorry, but I could give examples of the centuries-old genocide of Russian Orthodox Christians by Poland on the territory of Ukraine and Belarus. But I will not do this, since this post will be deleted by the moderator as “off topic”. I'll just see if your off-topic comment gets deleted.

a reply to: RussianTroll

Given the reports of dark pyramids hovering for hours over the Pentagon, the Kremlin and probably, Beijing, we should consider that cosmic laws are quite probably being introduced to Earth-bound strategies formerly based upon greed, brute strength, and the mere will of some individuals. Discreet diplomacy would be the rule, bulwarked by the simple fact of the impossible bodies being present. After all, he last thing that the ETs want on Earth is a regression to animalistic behaviors already all to common.

a reply to: RussianTroll

I'll just see if your off-topic comment gets deleted.

Run home and cry to Momma

This is your modus operandi whenever your silly claims are exposed. Either that or you can't remember what you posted in your OP.

Give me one example of Russia abiding by the international law. The numerous examples of violating it , especially in Ukraine, are the matter of the public record.

a reply to: twistedpuppy

Calm down, and just out of habit once again place Poland’s national interests under the United States.

a reply to: RussianTroll

"We proceed from these self-evident truths, that all men are created equal, and are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness".

Yet in another thread of yours you posted, with approval, the views of a neo-Nazi "philosopher" who called for genocide in Ukraine and called African folk "non-humans".

Your lecture about international law and rules therefore is a little, hypocritical?

Russia, China and Iran have one notable thing in common.

The brutal putting down of any form of dissent and denying their citizens basic freedom of expression.

a reply to: RussianTroll

These are the instances of Russia violating the international law during the invasion of Ukraine:

1. The violation of the 1945 UN Charter, which prohibits the use of military force against the territorial integrity of any state unless in self defense or under the authorization by the Security Council.

2. The violation of international agreements such as Budapest Memorandum and Minsk Agreements.

3. The violation of Geneva Conventions and international humanitarian law, which prohibit the attacks on civilians and civilian infrastructure.

UN Security Council passed a resolution condemning the war in Ukraine shortly after the Russian invasion. Russia was also accused of war crimes and crimes against humanity. The International Court of Justice ordered Russia to immediately stop its military operations in Ukraine. Russia boycotted the order.

You claimed in your OP that Russia is trying to obey the international law. Countless examples show something to the contrary. Please pontificate now how Russia obeys international laws.

a reply to: RussianTroll

"in general we are constantly portrayed in a negative light."

Perhaps Russia could behave in a civilised manner and contribute something positive to the World, for a change?

If Russia is held in a negative light, it only has itself to blame.

a reply to: RussianTroll

Interesting that you misrepresent and rewrite the actual premise of a computer game.

Not to mention history.

a reply to: RussianTroll

"It seems to me that ignoring and violating the fundamental ideas written in the Declaration of Independence is leading the country and society to collapse. The fate of the 3rd Reich is indicative."

The fate of the 3rd Reich was decided by the Allies military victory in WW2.

What's this got to do with the US today?

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: RussianTroll
The Soviet army intervenes in the civil war in Mexico, supporting the rebels fighting against the pro-American government,....

Yeah, sounds like something Russia would do. Interfere with something going on all the way on the other side of the world that doesn't effect them at all, and doing so in such a way as to undermine America. Provocation. Yep ... that has 'Russia' written all over it.

I know that's not the point of your thread but that jumped out at me and I thought I'd comment.

The Vietnamese considered their conflict 2 things. Initially it was a war of independence against French colonialism and then they considered it a civil war.

The west and east, namely the US and Soviet Russia considered it a proxy war between rivalling ideologies.

Then again idk, I wasn't there...

You kinda of walked straight into RTs point with that one mind.

a reply to: Oldcarpy2

I preferred the tiberium wars myself.

Really good writing with those games and it gets a little biblical when the scrin show up, kane is a brilliant character all round. They're just games, red alert 3 was fun though... Allies always came across as pretentious and it would've been by design.

a reply to: RAY1990

I don't really do computer games.

We have before us the opportunity to forge for ourselves and for future generations a new world order, a world where the rule of law, not the law of the jungle, governs the conduct of nations. When we are successful, and we will be, we have a real chance at this new world order, an order in which a credible United Nations can use its peacekeeping role to fulfill the promise and vision of the U.N.'s founders.

George H. W. Bush