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Myth and Reality: Unraveling the Historical Fabrications of the Biblical Exodus and Return
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It’s broadly understood that the “passover” story—along with Moses, the Egyptian exodus, the desert-wandering, the conquest of Canaan—are
fictitious, not just factual embellishments. The ancient Hebrews were not actually enslaved in Egypt, nor did they enter Palestine by force; they
emerged gradually, within the “Canaanite” culture, if it even makes sense to distinguish the two at all. Neither was the kingdom of Israel emptied
by the Assyrians, nor Judah exiled en masse to Babylon, nor returning later to restore their empty land under the Persians. These are mythology, not
history. Migration, deportation and captivity were common in the ancient world, but never to that scale, and most inhabitants stayed right there.
Besides, ethnic boundaries weren’t static: émigrés from Palestine were as likely to adopt the cultures of their new homes, as settlers were to
adopt the indigenous cultures of Palestine, which were fluid. What modern archaeology and genetic studies confirm is that the population and culture
of ancient Palestine were more or less continuous—not emptied and replenished, through exiles and returns—from the late bronze age until now.
Their descendants include the Samaritans, the Palestinians and, by way of a long diaspora, the modern Jews.
Where did these myths come from? The stories of “exile” and “exodus,” “captivity” and “return” are literary inventions, used by the biblical authors for ideological reasons. The book of Genesis reflects the worldview of imperial optimism and cohesion—all of humanity are one big family, and Abraham, a Mesopotamian immigrant, is the ancestor of all who dwell in a land that corresponds to the Mesopotamian province “Eber-Nari.” It’s a founding myth for the Hebrews’ sense of belonging within the empire, among the other nations. The other biblical books tell something different. Whereas Genesis has Abraham start in Babylonia, move to Palestine, have hijinks in Egypt, then start a family in Palestine, the later books reverse it: the Israelites start as slaves in Egypt, settle Palestine by genocide, get exiled to Babylon, then return to build a temple-state in Palestine. These themes of annihilation, persecution and ethnic conflict do not reflect historical realities, but political propaganda, and the agendas were that of war, land-annexation and nation-building. Tales of suffering were metaphors of political defeat; “exile” meant the favored rulers were out of power; myths of an “empty” or “polluted” land erased the land-claims of those already living on it, including the indigenous and one’s own kin; and claims of being a “returning exilee” gave legitimacy to wars of annexation (against the previous inhabitants, who could be waved away as “squatters”). These stories don’t correspond to the history of Palestine in the late-bronze or iron ages—when they’re set—but reflect the perspective of a much later period, the late-Persian and hellenistic eras, when the bible was actually written. When the Jerusalem priesthood stopped being a small backwater polytheistic cult, seized power in the “Maccabean” revolt, conquered the rest of Palestine from their fellow “Canaanite” kin, moved the capital from Samaria to Judea, and imposed the written torah as law for the very first time—in the 2nd century B.C.
The great thing about religious stories is their tendency to be misconstrued completely over time. For the better, this means that the bible’s tales of exile and return have resonated among oppressed peoples, throughout history, Jews and gentiles alike. This “liberationist” reception is much better than the chauvinistic purpose of the bible’s ancient authors, and just as valid, even more. But another tendency, even among non-religious circles, is to take the biblical narrative at face-value and, once you’ve shaved away the obviously supernatural and fantastic bits, believe the basic outlines of the narrative as real history. This has led, first of all, to a fundamental misunderstanding of Palestine’s ancient (and modern) history, as well as of religious history, persisting to this day. This, in turn, has cemented the widespread impression that Jewish people really are “exceptional” in history—uniquely separate, uniquely persecuted, uniquely in conflict with other peoples. And this impression, in both its antisemitic and philosemitic tenors, has contributed to the political mythology of Zionism—a worldview that takes the myth of exile and return, the myth of the empty land, the myth of ethnic separatism, of static identities in perpetual existential conflict, to its grisly conclusion.
Where did these myths come from? The stories of “exile” and “exodus,” “captivity” and “return” are literary inventions, used by the biblical authors for ideological reasons. The book of Genesis reflects the worldview of imperial optimism and cohesion—all of humanity are one big family, and Abraham, a Mesopotamian immigrant, is the ancestor of all who dwell in a land that corresponds to the Mesopotamian province “Eber-Nari.” It’s a founding myth for the Hebrews’ sense of belonging within the empire, among the other nations. The other biblical books tell something different. Whereas Genesis has Abraham start in Babylonia, move to Palestine, have hijinks in Egypt, then start a family in Palestine, the later books reverse it: the Israelites start as slaves in Egypt, settle Palestine by genocide, get exiled to Babylon, then return to build a temple-state in Palestine. These themes of annihilation, persecution and ethnic conflict do not reflect historical realities, but political propaganda, and the agendas were that of war, land-annexation and nation-building. Tales of suffering were metaphors of political defeat; “exile” meant the favored rulers were out of power; myths of an “empty” or “polluted” land erased the land-claims of those already living on it, including the indigenous and one’s own kin; and claims of being a “returning exilee” gave legitimacy to wars of annexation (against the previous inhabitants, who could be waved away as “squatters”). These stories don’t correspond to the history of Palestine in the late-bronze or iron ages—when they’re set—but reflect the perspective of a much later period, the late-Persian and hellenistic eras, when the bible was actually written. When the Jerusalem priesthood stopped being a small backwater polytheistic cult, seized power in the “Maccabean” revolt, conquered the rest of Palestine from their fellow “Canaanite” kin, moved the capital from Samaria to Judea, and imposed the written torah as law for the very first time—in the 2nd century B.C.
The great thing about religious stories is their tendency to be misconstrued completely over time. For the better, this means that the bible’s tales of exile and return have resonated among oppressed peoples, throughout history, Jews and gentiles alike. This “liberationist” reception is much better than the chauvinistic purpose of the bible’s ancient authors, and just as valid, even more. But another tendency, even among non-religious circles, is to take the biblical narrative at face-value and, once you’ve shaved away the obviously supernatural and fantastic bits, believe the basic outlines of the narrative as real history. This has led, first of all, to a fundamental misunderstanding of Palestine’s ancient (and modern) history, as well as of religious history, persisting to this day. This, in turn, has cemented the widespread impression that Jewish people really are “exceptional” in history—uniquely separate, uniquely persecuted, uniquely in conflict with other peoples. And this impression, in both its antisemitic and philosemitic tenors, has contributed to the political mythology of Zionism—a worldview that takes the myth of exile and return, the myth of the empty land, the myth of ethnic separatism, of static identities in perpetual existential conflict, to its grisly conclusion.
You can argue that the Bible was written by imperfect and fallible men, but it's hard to argue with this:
One Solitary Life
One Solitary Life
originally posted by: ColeYounger2
You can argue that the Bible was written by imperfect and fallible men, but it's hard to argue with this:
One Solitary Life
The OP is not arguing that Jesus wasn't an authentic highly enlightened being. They come along every now and then and are easily recognized by their contemporaries for being extremely unusual by their lack of egocentrism. Buddha. Moses. Zoroaster. Baháʼu'lláh. Etc.
That doesn't mean that the bull# in the "holy books" that were written by committee centuries after the fact, is true.
originally posted by: Boomer1947
originally posted by: ColeYounger2
You can argue that the Bible was written by imperfect and fallible men, but it's hard to argue with this:
One Solitary Life
The OP is not arguing that Jesus wasn't an authentic highly enlightened being. They come along every now and then and are easily recognized by their contemporaries for being extremely unusual by their lack of egocentrism. Buddha. Moses. Zoroaster. Baháʼu'lláh. Etc.
That doesn't mean that the bull# in the "holy books" that were written by committee centuries after the fact, is true.
Your right, that doesn't make it true.
Just as all the scientific theory we have today will be laughed at tomorrow.....hell, even the village idiot in Agartha is probably laughing at us right now.
Our self righteous attitudes. Our my way or the highway way. Killing our unborn children. Using toxins in everything.
Thing is, I believe in the God of the Bible. I believe in the Bible.
I would like to say it is because I have always been strong in my faith. But that is not the case. When I fell, nobody was there to lift me up. But a miracle happened. I felt it it...the joy, the peace, the grace, the mercy, the Redemption.
Some get spiritual because they see the light.
Others because they feel the heat.
- Ray Wilie Hubbard
Oh, and one question for you...why is it alright for you to call the Bible B#, but it is wrong for me to say abortion is murder?
Is it because some are more equal than others?
And what makes them more equal?
a reply to: BigRedChew
Exodus works great as a metaphor for belief system invention.
Consider what achaeology says. Egypt was in Canaan. They built temples. Canaanite religion was suppressed. Then there was this period between Canaanite -> New Kingdom and then Israel and Judea. About 300 years.
Evidence of Hebrew culinary practices go back to 1250 or so, but in the following 300 years you essentially had a 3-Way cultural split. Phoenician, Philistine, and Hebrew. All between The fall of The New Kingdom and the evidence of "A United Israel," which as it turns out was little more than tribal chieftans ruling a slum, in between The Red Brick City and the later Assyrian layer.
It took 300+ years to come up with their own mythology.
You can tell it's essentially a hodge-podge of Canaanite, Assyrian, Babylonian, and Zoroastrian.
The Exodus, meaning the Pentateuch, has been dated, by virtue of Persian loanwords, to DURING the reign of Cyrus The Great.
Best estimates place it's composition between 510 and 400 BCE, with revisions made for centuries.
Being lost, can be considered those 600-1000 years they spent refining their story, from oratory to written. They wandered the religious conception landscape until they finally found themselves in The Archaemenid Empire. The major prophets almost all predate Genesis/Exodus.
They just reworked it until the ducks were all in a row.
Great thread.
Exodus works great as a metaphor for belief system invention.
Consider what achaeology says. Egypt was in Canaan. They built temples. Canaanite religion was suppressed. Then there was this period between Canaanite -> New Kingdom and then Israel and Judea. About 300 years.
Evidence of Hebrew culinary practices go back to 1250 or so, but in the following 300 years you essentially had a 3-Way cultural split. Phoenician, Philistine, and Hebrew. All between The fall of The New Kingdom and the evidence of "A United Israel," which as it turns out was little more than tribal chieftans ruling a slum, in between The Red Brick City and the later Assyrian layer.
It took 300+ years to come up with their own mythology.
You can tell it's essentially a hodge-podge of Canaanite, Assyrian, Babylonian, and Zoroastrian.
The Exodus, meaning the Pentateuch, has been dated, by virtue of Persian loanwords, to DURING the reign of Cyrus The Great.
Best estimates place it's composition between 510 and 400 BCE, with revisions made for centuries.
Being lost, can be considered those 600-1000 years they spent refining their story, from oratory to written. They wandered the religious conception landscape until they finally found themselves in The Archaemenid Empire. The major prophets almost all predate Genesis/Exodus.
They just reworked it until the ducks were all in a row.
Great thread.
edit on 1-5-2024 by Degradation33 because: (no reason given)
originally posted by: BigRedChew
It’s broadly understood that the “passover” story—along with Moses, the Egyptian exodus, the desert-wandering, the conquest of Canaan—are fictitious, not just factual.
It is not 'broadly understood' that the Bible is false.
Science and archaeology have repeatedly proved the Bible to be accurate.
Critics and scoffers have tried to tear the Bible down for 2000 years with little success.
A simple question for you:- Where does Jack Reacher come from? It's called fiction with a smattering of real places scattered in and real historical
events scattered in and THAT is exactly the same as the Bible.
The Bible in a big nut shell. Just like the Koran and other religious texts are a manuals for control of living people/tribes. The ten commandments are pure "laws" for keeping a peaceful populace, NOT religious rules.
As for critics trying to tear the Bible down it's completely the opposite, Biblical scholars/archaeologists crawl and scrabble all over the "holy land" trying to find ANY tangible evidence of the Biblical truth. As they have been doing for 2000 years. With no success. It is just like Jack Reacher books, fiction with proper historical places/names and events, but it don't make it true.
The Bible in a big nut shell. Just like the Koran and other religious texts are a manuals for control of living people/tribes. The ten commandments are pure "laws" for keeping a peaceful populace, NOT religious rules.
As for critics trying to tear the Bible down it's completely the opposite, Biblical scholars/archaeologists crawl and scrabble all over the "holy land" trying to find ANY tangible evidence of the Biblical truth. As they have been doing for 2000 years. With no success. It is just like Jack Reacher books, fiction with proper historical places/names and events, but it don't make it true.
a reply to: theatreboy
While I cannot answer for the member you replied to, I would like to give you my answer to your question, if you don't mind?
It is not wrong, to me, for you to say abortion is murder. That is you opinion, based on you beliefs. And that should be ok for everyone.
Where it becomes NOT ok, is when you call someone a murderer for having an abortion, or blocking someone from going into a clinic. Then your are infringing on their rights.
The same goes for saying the bible is BS. That is OK. That is an opinion based on beliefs. But I would not tell someone they are an idiot for believing in it, nor block them from going into a church.
Seems a simple thing, that would make the world a whole lot better if everyone chose to live that way. Problem is, we are human, and too worried about what someone else is doing, than worrying about our own life.
While I cannot answer for the member you replied to, I would like to give you my answer to your question, if you don't mind?
Oh, and one question for you...why is it alright for you to call the Bible B#, but it is wrong for me to say abortion is murder?
Is it because some are more equal than others?
It is not wrong, to me, for you to say abortion is murder. That is you opinion, based on you beliefs. And that should be ok for everyone.
Where it becomes NOT ok, is when you call someone a murderer for having an abortion, or blocking someone from going into a clinic. Then your are infringing on their rights.
The same goes for saying the bible is BS. That is OK. That is an opinion based on beliefs. But I would not tell someone they are an idiot for believing in it, nor block them from going into a church.
Seems a simple thing, that would make the world a whole lot better if everyone chose to live that way. Problem is, we are human, and too worried about what someone else is doing, than worrying about our own life.
edit on 1-5-2024 by chiefsmom because: spelling
My thread from a while back
ATS Thread - Did Abraham Really Ever Exist?
Same kind of questions ...
ATS Thread - Did Abraham Really Ever Exist?
Same kind of questions ...
edit on 5/1/2024 by FlyersFan because: (no reason given)
originally posted by: Coelacanth55
It is not 'broadly understood' that the Bible is false.
Science and archaeology have repeatedly proved the Bible to be accurate.
Critics and scoffers have tried to tear the Bible down for 2000 years with little success.
Large parts of the Old Testament have been proven to be myth, fabrications, and exaggerations. The easiest one is Noahs Ark. That story is NOT to be taken literally. It is too easy to debunk. There was no world wide flood that killed every person except for 8 floating on a boat back in 2400 BC. The science and archaeology don't work.
ATS Thread - Noahs Ark and the Biblical World Wide Flood Didn't Happen
originally posted by: chiefsmom
a reply to: theatreboy
While I cannot answer for the member you replied to, I would like to give you my answer to your question, if you don't mind?
Oh, and one question for you...why is it alright for you to call the Bible B#, but it is wrong for me to say abortion is murder?
Is it because some are more equal than others?
It is not wrong, to me, for you to say abortion is murder. That is you opinion, based on you beliefs. And that should be ok for everyone.
Where it becomes NOT ok, is when you call someone a murderer for having an abortion, or blocking someone from going into a clinic. Then your are infringing on their rights.
The same goes for saying the bible is BS. That is OK. That is an opinion based on beliefs. But I would not tell someone they are an idiot for believing in it, nor block them from going into a church.
Seems a simple thing, that would make the world a whole lot better if everyone chose to live that way. Problem is, we are human, and too worried about what someone else is doing, than worrying about our own life.
Bolding mine.
But it is ok to call me a woman hater for saying it is wrong? You know....not respecting a woman's right to choose by my words?
I am not accussing you of calling me that.
The Left wants us to accept what they believe. However, that acceptance is not reciprocated. I am a hater for saying 5 year olds should not have puberty blockers....they are courageous for calling me a hater, though.
a reply to: BigRedChew
I don't know anything, but it seems, that the Bible is not really about the level-1 Sunday-school, childish level fables.
Good ole William Donahue has a series of about 11 vidz about Exodus, and how to see beyond the level-1 stories.
Some folks like to be told what to do.
Others : not so much.
I once spent about 40 years looking for my car in a mall parking-lot.
But sometimes I exaggerate just a little bit.
William Donahue - Exodus
( Playlist extension : PL4BFFF03AF458A6EC )
I don't know anything, but it seems, that the Bible is not really about the level-1 Sunday-school, childish level fables.
Good ole William Donahue has a series of about 11 vidz about Exodus, and how to see beyond the level-1 stories.
Some folks like to be told what to do.
Others : not so much.
I once spent about 40 years looking for my car in a mall parking-lot.
But sometimes I exaggerate just a little bit.
William Donahue - Exodus
( Playlist extension : PL4BFFF03AF458A6EC )
edit on 1/1/2024 by KnowItAllKnowNothin because: Playlist didn't display
There are those who do not believe if they do not see it with their own eyes and then it happens, they do not believe their own eyes. Even in those
days, most people around Jesus do not believe in him despite seeing the miracles. Many are probably trapped as ghost as they are unwilling to let go
of their grudges, desires and/or disbelief of afterlife.
edit on 2-5-2024 by mooncake because: (no reason given)
a reply to: BigRedChew
There is a lot to unpack here. I wish I had more time to go through this line by line.
There is archeological evidence the Jews were slaves in Egypt and that they conquered Cannan from that Philistines(not associated with palastines).
While we don't have evidence for every word in the old testament, there is clear evidence for the major movements of the Jewish people into Canaan and their existence in Egypt.
There is a lot to unpack here. I wish I had more time to go through this line by line.
There is archeological evidence the Jews were slaves in Egypt and that they conquered Cannan from that Philistines(not associated with palastines).
While we don't have evidence for every word in the old testament, there is clear evidence for the major movements of the Jewish people into Canaan and their existence in Egypt.
originally posted by: Boomer1947
originally posted by: ColeYounger2
You can argue that the Bible was written by imperfect and fallible men, but it's hard to argue with this:
One Solitary Life
The OP is not arguing that Jesus wasn't an authentic highly enlightened being. They come along every now and then and are easily recognized by their contemporaries for being extremely unusual by their lack of egocentrism. Buddha. Moses. Zoroaster. Baháʼu'lláh. Etc.
That doesn't mean that the bull# in the "holy books" that were written by committee centuries after the fact, is true.
In this particular reply, I'm focusing on the Big Picture, as it were.
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