Space Time and rubber ducks

So maybe i just am not grasping something and i would say i am pretty well informed for not being classically educated for Astronomy


I get how 3 dimensions work as most of us do, and if you want to call times flow another dimension there is 4.


Best we can figure space-time as kind of an ever-expanding 'jello' like structure, look at collapsed stars where the stars super heavy core is now past a certain limit(Landaus limit i think) and a infinite apparently 2d space with infinite mass.

but black holes also come with a head ache, the more you think about them and just the event horizon it is awe inspiring let alone what we assume is past the horizon is a infinite point of infinite mass that rips space time, since the flow into the singularity(light and matter and i'm sure other energies) it has to go somewhere, i know TINY Hawking Radiation spills out but how long with just that small flow of hawking radiation to spit back out a large asteroid, heck even a grain of dust in hawking radiation(forever).


what is space-time floating in to or existing in that allows such stability to let out spacetime expand for billions of years out time, who knows now the real age with the new JWST showing fully formed galaxies they are saying it would at the very LEAST add another 10 BILLION years to our history/light horizon.

to expand we need to expand into something, to have black holes it would seem there is a medium spacetime sits on to let the singularity act the way it does.

brain twister for sure

a reply to: DronesandUFOs

what is space-time floating in to or existing in that allows such stability to let out spacetime expand for billions of years out time

Spacetime, as described by Einstein's theory of general relativity is not thought to float in anything in the conventional sense.

Instead, it's an intrinsic fabric of the universe itself.

I get what you are suggesting through, you're looking for the box outside our universe, but it's most likely not quite as simple as that.

You may wish to check out the likes of multiverse theory if you have not done so already.

www.livescience.com...
www.britannica.com...

Brain twister indeed.

a reply to: andy06shake

i was into quantum loops and strings

i get theoretically we are existence its self, but we also know for a fact there are more dimensions that we know of.


i bring up black holes because personally they are punching into and possibly right thru what we would call existence.

i like the muti world theory as it cleans up a lot of paradox stuff

i think of out universe as a loaf of bread and one universe is another slice


i think gravity is the weakest force because it has to 'travel' across the entirety of whatever reality is.

the other 3 forces are part of a system and don't seem to lose energy, but yet gravity al things being equal should be a stronger force

a reply to: DronesandUFOs

trying to understand other dimensions outside just math on a chalkboard is outside our grasp of comprehension

no one can tell you what it is, just math problems and in alot of those math problems assume a good bit

black wholes may go somewhere that we cant comprehend until your there(if you can survive) even with a spacesuit and craft.

i think someone in the US has figured something out or had a break thru(see tic tac's and all the odd openness from the US government). i would NOT be surprised if the AF or whoever had a pony show


imagine the reaction the public would have? it would certainly make alot of Ufologists very very silly

a reply to: DronesandUFOs

we also know for a fact there are more dimensions that we know of.

No, we don't. We hypothesize, but certainly it is not a fact.

a reply to: DronesandUFOs

Well, when they find the likes of a "white holes" that might help.

Then again given the observational challenges involved and theoretical constraints regarding detection of such a thing.

If they do exist finding them may be above humanity's paygrade to date.

a reply to: Direnei

Higher-dimensional spaces posited by theories like string theory suggest 10 dimensions, with 9 spatial and 1 time dimension.

Kind of hard to get one's head around given our perspective and very 3-dimensional existence of course.

Well my head anyhoo.

a reply to: andy06shake

Sure. But they are hypotheses, not facts.

Space-time is nothing more than a mathematical concept that simplifies the universe in many explainations of what we see. It really has nothing to do with reality.

Simple isn't it?

Now would you please go into the subject of the rubber ducks? While the thread title is intriguing, you faild to mention the rubber ducks in question in the op.

a reply to: Direnei

It is indeed a theoretical framework and mathematical model rather than an established fact.

And string theory has not yet been confirmed by experimental evidence.

Then again so were the likes of black holes until we managed to take a picture of sorts.

a reply to: BeyondKnowledge3

At least we know the extreme temperatures in space will cause the rubber duck to freeze or overheat depending on its exposure to sunlight. Quite before approaching a black hole, there will be no rubber duck left. This is a fact.

a reply to: Direnei

Assuming a rudder duck is in orbit around the Sun near the orbit of the Earth, I don't think it would have much of a problem. There is no way to keep it from rotating at least slightly and slowly without a guidemce system. This would spread the thermal effects over the entire surface ara. Some surface heating and some cooling. This would average out to not be a big problem. It would not cook or freeze. The Solar radiation would rot the duck slightly faster than on Earth as it is approximately 25% more sunlight than on the Earth.

Now, if the rubber duck remained elastic enough while encountering a black hole, it might be stretchy enough to survive, providing it is a very small duck as the bigger ducks would experience more tidal forces in the encounter simply because of their size.

Edit: At least survive as a recognisable if very stretched rubber duck until it made it to the event horizon.

a reply to: BeyondKnowledge3

is it possible that we are floating in a large event horizon i mean all we can see, living as so sort of living hologram.


hence the ducks, i have a feeling we know as much as one when it comes to this stuff in 'the field' and not on a blackboard

the movie Annihilation was first a set of three book very good real or audio book


i dont think we would be able to comprehend another physical dimension or live there/survive the trip.


i personally think Gravity is the weakest force is that is has to pass via the universe/dimension 'loaf' that being said we are nowhere near having the ability to make true gravity waves.

what if all this time the phone was ringing but we couldnt hear it until recently now that we can detect gravity waves, i have always wondered what they dont tell us they find, like a message encoded in gravity waves and binary

a reply to: DronesandUFOs

I have read of a theory that gravity waves are almost instantious throughout the universe. That would leade to faster than light communications. Now, if we could just figure out how to build a graviteo (gravity wave radio].

a reply to: BeyondKnowledge3

Apparently, that may be due to gravitational waves being ripples in the fabric of spacetime itself.

The idea that gravitational waves propagate almost instantaneously across the universe might be a bit misleading through.

I mean while they appear to travel at the speed of light, they are not instantaneous meaning they still take time to propagate from their source to an observer.

a reply to: andy06shake

From what I have read, a gravity wave is supposed to take less than a second to cross the visible universe. The speed of light taking billions of years to do the same. Not instantious but close enough to push wifi through it as if by magic.

There you go again, talking like space-time is something more than a convenience in mathematics. You do realize that numbers themselves are also an abstract mathematical concept. They are used in place of the actual things you are representing the count of. It is rather inconvenient to count more than zero elephants actually in your living room. I use numbers myself all the time but they are not a real existing thing.

originally posted by: BeyondKnowledge3
a reply to: andy06shake

From what I have read, a gravity wave is supposed to take less than a second to cross the visible universe.

That is incorrect. Gravitational waves travel at the speed of light, although they can stretch and compress the very fabric of space time as they pass through matter. That is how we figured out how to detect them.

The LIGO and the VIRGO work by extending two very long arms underground at a perpendicular angle to each other, and from the central point they shoot a laser to the end of each arm. The laser bounces back and comes back together to its point of origin. Since the ends of the arms are miles apart, something like a gravitational wave would create a small delay between the two lasers coming back at the exact some time. This discrepancy proves that a gravitational wave passed though and offset the measurements, basically warping the earth.

We were able to measure gravitational waves from black hole mergers that happened millions or billions of years ago. So, it took millions or billions of years for the gravitational waves to arrive here, the same as the light from the same events. That's because they travel at the same speed -- the speed of light.

Link

I have never read a gravitational wave could cross the entire universe in an instant. That goes against everything known. But I'd appreciate reading it if you find it.

I could see that during the time of inflation, not expansion, but the initial inflation after the Big Bang, when the universe was relatively small, something like that could be possible. In the instant when the universe was born, there was a time, however short it was, when its radius was less than the distance the light could travel in a year. Meaning the universe was smaller than a light year. In such a small universe a gravitational wave could travel the length of an entire universe in a second. Then again, we can't be sure that the laws of physics worked exactly the same way in the primordial universe.

a reply to: BeyondKnowledge3

From what I have read, a gravity wave is supposed to take less than a second to cross the visible universe.

Where did you read this?

The speed of light taking billions of years to do the same. Not instantious but close enough to push wifi through it as if by magic.

I don't think that the case through.

There you go again, talking like space-time is something more than a convenience in mathematics. You do realize that numbers themselves are also an abstract mathematical concept. They are used in place of the actual things you are representing the count of.

Numbers are fundamental to mathematics and serve as the building blocks for various mathematical operations and concepts. But they do have real-world applications and implications across various disciplines, physics being a major contender there.

It is rather inconvenient to count more than zero elephants actually in your living room.

An elephant probably would not fit in my living room, so zero sounds about right.

On a more serious note numbers play a crucial role in nearly every aspect of our lives, and their importance can be seen in just about everything we do and see. If there is a universal language, it's probably going to involve mathematics.

I use numbers myself all the time but they are not a real existing thing.

Numbers may well be abstract concepts rather than tangible objects but their importance in communication information is rather self-evident.

You know that old rubber-duck, that you used to have ?

Where is it now ?

How do you know, for sure ?

a reply to: BeyondKnowledge3

Assuming your scenario, the rubber duck will quickly degrade. Rubber degrades in space due to exposure to ultraviolet radiation, extreme temperatures, and atomic oxygen. All of these combined will cause rubber materials to become brittle, crack, and finally degrade over time. Plus the lack of oxygen in space can also contribute to the degradation process which, if everything goes as expected, will be quick and irreversible.

If the rubber duck is made of PVC, we can even expect the squeaker or whistle inside to make noise when the pressure deforms the duck, though, as you know, no noise will come out due to the lack of atmosphere. Not even in its last moments can the rubber duck cry for help.