Scientists Say Even Insects May Be Sentient

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: Naftalin
Nature is cruel and always has been.

True. There is that kids song from Lion King ... Circle of Life ... but really it should be Circle of Death. Nearly everything alive on this planet is alive because something else died to feed it. Even the plants are alive because something died and rotted in the ground to feed the ground before the plants spring up.

Children really don't respond well to Peter Steele.. RIP.



Some more wantingly than others.

Animal sentience is based on range of abilities and complexity of life, IMO..

How much sentience does an earthworm need? Enough for its simplistic insides to function and worm through the soil. But the bird that comes and eats it has a wider range of ability, and need for more attuned sensory organs. It needs to be more conscious than the worm by several orders of magnitude.

And plants are interesting. I think it was ferns. They would torture one and the other plant, though not connected to the tortured plant, would "respond" to its plight, hooked up to its plant EEG. They equated it to plant empathy.

It was very basic responses, but enough to affirm some degree of sentience.

I like lobster and crab, but will never boil one alive or cut one open alive, like just about every restaurant will.

Those that say "they don't feel it" should try it on themselves.

I have family that fish lobster up in Canada. They showed us how to kill a lobster instantly by severing the front of the head, just behind the eyes. It is not a fun thing to do, but more humane than boiling it alive, which is just unthinkable. This can also be done with crab, with a knife incision directly behind the eyes. These procedures can only be done directly before cooking, otherwise toxins in the head could contaminate the meat.

Commercial seafood processing is mostly a torture chamber for the poor creatures, and as much as I like seafood, I recognize the need for ways to ensure that the poor fish do not suffer needlessly when procedures could be put in place to ensure they are not conscious when killed.

I also think that octopus should never be eaten. They are probably one of the most intelligent of creatures on this planet, yet most countries do not seem to care.

originally posted by: charlyv
I also think that octopus should never be eaten. They are probably one of the most intelligent of creatures on this planet, yet most countries do not seem to care.

I had it when I lived in Japan. HORRID.
So extreme fishy taste I could barely get a bite or two down.

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: charlyv
I also think that octopus should never be eaten. They are probably one of the most intelligent of creatures on this planet, yet most countries do not seem to care.

I had it when I lived in Japan. HORRID.
So extreme fishy taste I could barely get a bite or two down.

I hear you there. That and the insides of sea urchins... yuck.
They have a much different palate for certains seafoods than most other people, for sure.

“When there is a realistic possibility of conscious experience in an animal, it is irresponsible to ignore that possibility in decisions affecting that animal,” the declaration says. “We should consider welfare risks and use the evidence to inform our responses to these risks.”

And yet, this same reasoning isn’t even applied to protect unborn humans.

so...where do these "scientists" actually come from? lol

a reply to: FlyersFan

"Would you like to know more?"

I like spiders, even those that are dangerous. You do not need any flying insect poisons if you have enough spiders in the house. (Of course, spiders like the black recluse or widow, must be removed, if you have kids.)

When I see one, I export them by capturing them with a paper cup and cardboard lid.

I find a drafty area in my basement and just let them go.

Check them in a few weeks, and the webs are full of flies, mosquitoes, fleas, gnats....and a big fat spider! Natures insect monster.

a reply to: FlyersFan

I remember reading something like this on Plants.....Not sure if true or not but def interesting


The radical new experiments that hint at plant consciousness - LINK

It’s a wild idea, but recent experiments suggest plants may have the ability to learn and make decisions. Are the claims true and if so, what does it mean for our understanding of consciousness and the human mind?

Research Shows Plants Are Sentient. Will We Act Accordingly? - LINK

a reply to: FlyersFan

Well, both are probably the same, only the point of view is different:

Circle of life focuses on creation.
Circle of death focuses on ruin.

Basically it's one and the same. The Lion King is intended more for children, hence the focus on life. Especially because the scene is about young lion who is now entering the adult circle. That's where the song is played.

So it fits well, but I understand what you mean.

No sh!t...

If a tree has consciousness, then no doubt insects do as well.

I'd go so far as to claim minerals are sentient, in a lower form of manifestation, little understood and ill-defined by us.

Even the earth and the sun itself are conscious.

The air, water, fire each do as well, though in communion with one another.

Life itself is alive, don't you know now?

originally posted by: Naftalin
The wolf eats you without even thinking about whether you are aware of what is happening. He doesn't care because he's hungry. The bear will eat you alive.

Nature is cruel and always has been. The fact that we humans still don't want to admit that animals can also have emotions is evidence of our own ignorance.

Only we humans imagine that we are better than ourselves and are called to greater things. And that will be our downfall. Nature will continue to exist in its cruelty, but will also be accompanied by beautiful moments.

Everyone just wait until it becomes mainstream that plants also have a kind of consciousness and are not just biological machines. That's what they said about animals too. And then what do we do then? Are we eating ourselves? What will the vegans do?

And why is there actually straw here?

it's a part of dehumanization. Like a soldier has to do when fighting an enemy. You can't be worried about their feelings.

Like naming that cute little cow Randy, then having him come to the fence every day for 3 years to greet you and have you scrub that spot between his eyes, then taking him to the slaughter house and eating a juicy ribeye from his cut. Disassociate or allow feelings in and become a vegetarian. Then hope like hell nobody finds out plants feel pain.

I've always believed that animals are sentient and anyone who thinks they aren't, are idiots. That changes nothing for me and my life style or diet.

Insects may not have complex emotions but they can definitely feel fear. I have watched a spider shrink back in fear when I get close to it. As I move away, it begins coming forward. If I return near to it to get closer, it will shrink back again. Fear is an emotion. Many species of insects feel fear. I'm not sure if insects feel pain though and I haven't seen anything that indicates they do.

But if the government is going to push against human consumption of animals because of these discoveries, are they going to push against consuming fish and insects as well? If so, they should quit using any and all pesticides against insects for any reason what so ever, which will never happen. Who will represent the mosquitos? Will someone be a 'specist' if they discriminate against mosquitos and ticks and try to kill them but give preferential treatment to sow bugs or butterflies? I can just see the lgbtq+++z community getting pushed aside from the limelight and replaced by cockroaches as a privileged species. Hmmmmmm

I obviously like talking about intelligence in insects and animals. I also think there is sentience in some. "I think, thearfore I am" may be too much of a stretch, but self-awareness of some degree, definitely.

I think Whales, Dolphin (Porpoise) , octopus, chimps(Orangatang,Silver Gorilla) are most likely sentient in that regard.

As far as insects, it is difficult because they are very different and I also think they experience the passage of time different.
The Praying Mantis and DragonFly would be on my list. And also THIS:

I bring this Fly out on occasion when the intelligence of insects come up.
This thing has perfect images of it's ant prey emulated in its wings so it can hang out where they congregate without alarming them and eat them at will.



Some think it is just evolution, but it is such a specific action and solution for it's survival.... is it possible that it knows what it is doing? It may be a long time before we can answer that for sure.

originally posted by: Athetos
Why is this somehow news to people?


That’s not to say I respect everything because of its possible sentientness. I still absolutely crush flys and smash mosquitoes without even a second thought sending their souls screaming back into the void from where they came.

a reply to: FlyersFan

You are being kind. They can reincarnate as something with a longer lifespan or with more sentience. Speading payin off their Karma.

a reply to: FlyersFan

I decided a long time ago that flies are telepathic.

They know exactly when you're going to strike.

Everytime.

a reply to: FlyersFan

hell all they had to do is watch it's a bugs life to know that.

I live in the second highest crime ridden part of my city. I can tell you that arguments could be made that there are a lot of human beings that are simply not sentient. Because honestly I see a lot of absolute idiocy here on the part of certain humans. While I have a twinge of guilt when I eat beef, I feel absolutely none when eating fish, chicken or pork. Because in the ocean, fish will eat you. Chickens if they were 8 feet tall, would eat you, and pigs, will absolutely eat you if you can’t get out of their pen if you fall down.

Don’t even get me started on deer, elk, moose, and other game animals. If they can kill you, they are definitely on the menu. Then again, they might be pushing cannibalism the same way so I guess I probably ought to lose some weight. I don’t want to look like Wagyu Beef to some cannibal. a reply to: leongrad

I'm confused, animals use their senses how is that not sentient? I do believe trees are sentient. But are we talking about a frog sits and wonders why they are a frog? Or a frog jumps on a lilly pad that feels great and the frog is happy and thinking, "what a nice lilly pad?"

originally posted by: diaclonethunder
when i see bugs in my house, i get caterpillars or spiders, in summer a fly gets in. i spray ant barrier outside to keep ants out. when i see bugs, i pick them up in a cup if they might bite and let them outside, and tell them to avoid people and other big animals.

i try my best to do this.

one of my tricks is, in summer- i keep water sprayer filled with just basic water.
then if a fly gets in, you can zap him with water- he gets tired from the water, cant fly.
then you gently pick him up with a napkin, very gently-
and then gently place the napkin outside to let him and the napkin dry.

and he flies away if done correct.

flys are so fast, thats my trick which took me years to fathom, but works good.

That is franking genius man!
I will not forget that trick and thank you for sharing.