Identity Politics. To me.

This is an opinion piece by yours truly, Alroy. I'm not saying that my perspective is correct, just that it is mine and this is where I'm at on the issue.

I feel I need to get a few points off my chest based on some of the recent Pride threads and the whole Visibility Day thing. This doesn't have to be strictly about the Pride Movement. It can really apply to any group vying for status, prestige, and recognition. It can be said of The Church, Scientific Community, Atheism, Environmental Activism etc.

I feel like there is an inherent flaw in special interest groups and identity politics. Joining groups and becoming part of a culture and integrating and collectively building is great stuff! It's even better if a group has an agenda for what they see as the betterment of civilization, the environment etc. etc.

But the pitfall comes when people construct their whole identity to serve their group, instead of working on their strengths as an individual and finding their place within their community. This can become a precarious tightrope walk. Is this the same argument that was made on the dangers of Nationalism? Perhaps, because some people become militant in their quest. Some people become driven to serve the interests of their group, seemingly giving up the ability to think for themselves as individuals. It can become cult-like where the individual is sacrificed, and they are made into pawns to serve the agenda. A good example of this are those oil protesters in the UK that have cut off routes to ambulances trying to get people to hospitals. Anyone remember Justice for Jussie?

The problem isn't that people are joining groups or protesting for what they believe in. That's all fine. The problem to me, is as I said, when a person constructs their whole identity around a black:white; us:them mentality.

In some of my personal interactions, people have introduced themselves to me as Gay, Atheist, 420 or what-have-you. I've always found this a bit puzzling. On the other hand, when I introduce myself to new people I tend to emphasize my qualities as a person e.g. I'm kind, polite, hard-working, a good listener, love to make people laugh and so forth.

Conversely, the things I notice about other people have less to do with their Identity Group, and more to do with how they act as a person. Are they intelligent? Dumb? Have a good sense of humor? Or are they an insufferable nag? I don't see your group, I see how you present yourself. I notice your character and values (or lack thereof,) not your "Club Jacket" so to speak.

So what does this do to things like the Pride Movement?

I'll try to give an example. My buddy told me once about how he was out at a bar and someone was having a "coming out" celebration. The dude coming out was really whooping it up, being loud and obnoxious, and making sure everyone at the bar knew he was gay. The reaction of the bar patrons was mostly one of "Yeah who cares. Just keep it down a little."

It ended up putting in the minds of the patrons that the 'outed' person was just annoying. I think that most Average Joes aren't going to have a problem or care one way or the other if you're Gay or whatever. Most people are going to be looking at your actions and making a judgement on how you behave, not on what group you identify with. This person may have tried to solidify their identity with the patrons as Openly Gay, but instead they just walked away as Annoying Drunk.

I've never heard one person say anything outright homophobic or transphobic. I always just hear how they're annoyed with the Pride Movement for various reasons. Let's be realistic, this isn't the era of Stonewall anymore. Most people are pretty open-minded and chill these days.

However, some people are getting involved with these special interest groups with the idea of victimhood already in mind. People get offended by ridiculous things like accidental misgendering and such.

It isn't just the Pride Movement. As I said this applies to everyone getting offended over ridiculous things on behalf of their group. Religious Fundies sometimes get offended when fossils are taught in schools for example. Or Atheists get offended by things like "In God We Trust" on printed money.

I'm not one to throw out the baby with the bathwater by any means. I feel like the world is big and mysterious enough that we can all enjoy it without getting offended at each other. I enjoy learning about fossils, and I can pick out wisdom from religious texts to appreciate. Isn't it up to the individual to form a harmonious worldview based on their knowledge and experience?

I think that when people join these movements and groups, however, they are naturally creating conflict. The group is telling you to reject the fossils, or to reject the lifestyle choices of others. Furthermore, it is in the best interest of these so-called groups to generate conflict within society. If there is no conflict or agenda, then what is the purpose of uniting an identity group?

Gay marriage is a big issue, sure. This is a practical issue to come together on. But what happens when all your demands for equality are met? Does the group pat each other on the back and disband? Or do they keep pushing the envelope?

Without conflict and adversity, these groups have no reason to exist. And it goes without saying that if you don't play ball like they tell you to, you will be ostracized. Their only goal is to gain power through their perceived victimhood. It is a never-ending quest.

I guess what I'm trying to say is--Yes, be yourself, embrace whatever subcultures you're into, but do not sacrifice your individuality to be a pawn for some group that really doesn't care about your visibility. They care more about their clout in society and media, and the donations and support that come with it. They care about keeping this gravy train rolling.

To put it more bluntly, how do you want to be remembered?

I don't want to be remembered as Republican or Democrat, as a Christian or Satanist, Vaxxed or Unvaxxed. I don't want to be remembered as a card-carrying Anything.

I'd rather be remembered as a down-to-earth, intelligent, and reliable person who is fun at parties.

There is division if you seek it. Everything looks like a nail if you identify as a hammer.

a reply to: AlroyFarms

Bravo!!

a reply to: AlroyFarms

To put it more bluntly, how do you want to be remembered?

as a crazy MF that just DGAF.

That's not who I am, that's just the way I want to be remembered.

With just how far some of this identity politics is going, looks like part of the psychological war going on against humanity with the support provided by groups like the WEF.

The women's rights movement after WW2 changed a lot of things like the right to vote. If a chick wants to be a boiler maker or a bloke wants to be a florist, whatever, as long as they could do the job.

Now that fundamental biology is in denial with big funding going into gender transition programs, but ignorant of the damage fits in with the same motivations around the coivd jab. With the males that do go through gender reassignment surgery that is successful, they still have to wear a plug to stop the bodies natural tendency to heal this wound. With the cases not successful, messy.

It does look like a depopulation plan with the hormone blockers that lead to sterility. Those children on the autism spectrum tend to more often fall into this social engineering trap. Maybe in the backrooms of all this science going on there an an aim to crack to code to introduce the clones?

From working on the animal farms, the rates of homosexuality does increase with population density. It is one way nature has to balance the population with the environment. When looking into homosexuality among humans, lot of stories of past trauma with where it started. What two consenting adults do is not my business. Providing the kids a safe and informed environment to make there own decisions is where I see the line.

With kids that have not gone through puberty to make decision about their gender is insane and evil. Maybe the state decision is natural selection at work. In this day and age with people like Pretendant Biden at the wheel, lot of people smoking that hopium these days.

Well said. As Les Misanthrope (ATS member) said in one of my threads, "Why present yourself to the world as an abstract label?". Due to illness and medication I have no sexual identity now. I used to be an average guy who just happened to prefer men to woman. I have never felt like I owed the world an explanation. I am not camp. I don't like being the centre of attention preferring to be in the background. The only thing I want judging on is merit and that can mean many things such as: being polite to people; helping people in their time of need; being empathetic etc etc.

Gay marriage is a big issue, sure.

I don't believe in religious marriage but I think legal marriage is needed due to inheritance laws.

I feel like the world is big and mysterious enough that we can all enjoy it without getting offended at each other.

I was challenged on ATS a few years ago. "You are gay and yet you side with Muslims on here. You do know they hate you?". I had to explain that I don't support Islam or Muslims, I support an individuals right to practice Islam. You cannot cherry pick who has freedom of expression."

a reply to: AlroyFarms

Those who Shout the Loudest are Usually the Ones Who have Nothing of Value to Say .....

I've always been Live and Let Live when it comes to this matter, but I'm also a Pacifist unless it's a matter of Self Defense.

I don't like the Rabid Revolutionaries though, they're too Triggered Happy.

a reply to: AlroyFarms

The problem isn't that people are joining groups or protesting for what they believe in. That's all fine. The problem to me, is as I said, when a person constructs their whole identity around a black:white; us:them mentality.

If people feel their interests are in danger (it could be an imaginary danger), they tend to radicalize. When it comes to confrontation with real or imaginary enemies, the groups value dedicated members, not waverers. Hence, the attitude "you're either with us or against us." This is the motto for the warriors marching in unison to the beat of their leaders' drum. Because every movement has its visionaries dreaming up lofty ideas and the cannon fodder ready to fight and sometimes even die for those ideas. The latter can't have second thoughts if the group is to accomplish its goals, like building a paradise on earth or any nonsense you can use to herd the sheep around.

Anyway, such people are expendable like Zelensky's artillery.

a reply to: AlroyFarms

I feel like there is an inherent flaw in special interest groups and identity politics. Joining groups and becoming part of a culture and integrating and collectively building is great stuff! It's even better if a group has an agenda for what they see as the betterment of civilization, the environment etc. etc.

But the pitfall comes when people construct their whole identity to serve their group, instead of working on their strengths as an individual and finding their place within their community. This can become a precarious tightrope walk. Is this the same argument that was made on the dangers of Nationalism? Perhaps, because some people become militant in their quest. Some people become driven to serve the interests of their group, seemingly giving up the ability to think for themselves as individuals. It can become cult-like where the individual is sacrificed, and they are made into pawns to serve the agenda. A good example of this are those oil protesters in the UK that have cut off routes to ambulances trying to get people to hospitals. Anyone remember Justice for Jussie?

I agree that the pitfall comes when anyone constructs their entire identity based on a belief that is a trap (circular logic) and, to me, that is where the thinking stops and where the individualism stops, therefore growth in all forms of the intellect, identity and soul also stop.

It sounds like you're saying that people should be more than a just a letter.

Personally, I'm more like numbers. Sometimes I'm a 3 and other times a 9. I'm a Dyad.

I joke, but I also believe that these labels should be identifying details; not personality traits.

Per lilzazz:

That's not who I am, that's just the way I want to be remembered.

Live first, let the others label you after you're gone.