JESUS was in Mental Anguish the Night Before GOOD FRIDAY...Having Second Thoughts Perhaps?.

a reply to: WeMustCare

I had no idea God talked to Himself so formally.

originally posted by: AwakeNotWoke

originally posted by: VariedcodeSole

originally posted by: Astrocometus
a reply to: WeMustCare

All I know is it would take a God to do what he did.

Because men are cowards.

First of all, if Jesus is God, then why was he praying to himself?🤷🏻

"Why am I forsaking myself?" Is pretty much what he's asking if you believe he's God.

There are nuances to the concept of the Trinity that our mortal minds cannot comprehend. That's the only answer you need. If you don't want to accept it, that your problem.

Who TF are you to tell me what I need and should be content with? If you're a Christian, you sure aren't acting like one.

Tell me what faith you follow so I can avoid it and in turn avoid becoming like you. Thanks in advance.

a reply to: cooperton

Also, what some see as prophecy others may see as a plan or roadmap.

Certain church leaders many years ago were saying The Book of Revelations would come true in our era, and people would be asked to have the Devil's mark on their hand or forehead to pay for things. Interesting how all that seems to be coming true, in our time. I don't recall a date in the book. It could make one question how could they have known... unless they had a part in making it happen?

originally posted by: WeMustCare

originally posted by: VariedcodeSole

originally posted by: Astrocometus
a reply to: WeMustCare

All I know is it would take a God to do what he did.

Because men are cowards.

First of all, if Jesus is God, then why was he praying to himself?🤷🏻

"Why am I forsaking myself?" Is pretty much what he's asking if you believe he's God.

A partial answer can be found here: www.abovetopsecret.com...

Jesus was fully man and fully God.

That's not an answer, it's a subjective interpretation that's really just a spitball.

Jesus said if you've seen me, you've seen my
/the/his Father. Guess what? God made us in his image, so we all look like him to one degree or another. Probably our most defining features I'd imagine.

Example:
Jesus is being baptized by John the Baptist and when he comes up from the water, the heavens open up and a dove representing the holy spirit descends from above, and a voice from heaven is heard saying this is my son, with whom I am well pleased."

That puts Jesus on earth, the holy spirit above him, and God (or whomever speaks for God, because hearing his voice would kill you apparently) in the heavens. Separate. Is God telling himself that he's pleased with himself??

That'd be weird.

Jesus is not God unless he was suffering from schizophrenia. If you really dig deep, Jesus is actually the Arch Angel Michael. Jesus is the earthly persona of Michael, not God.

If you want links it'll cost you $59.99 unless you have your own copy.

a reply to: HighEQ

I don't know Christ as I've never met him; I cannot love a character in a book only real life that I know exists here and now.

Sounds like that's really work'n out for ya but seek and you will find?

You see there' s this God peasant type hierachy that is very much like what we have on Earth where one must look up to others and think of 'some' as more important.

Yeah maybe that's because some people like to think they're more
important? Maybe they're trying to "Be like God". Maybe they know
something you don't?

And maybe they don't want people like you to know because that's how
they maintain their psychotic little hierarchy. And maybe because you
can't figure that out on your own? You deserve to stay in the dark only
thinking you have it all figured out.

Maybe

originally posted by: Astyanax
a reply to: WeMustCare

I had no idea God talked to Himself so formally.

Right? Are we reading his prayers or his vocalized inner monologue?🤷🏻

Did he tell his disciples EXACTLY what he prayed for, or was his prayers overheard? Either way, if he was God, his disciples would have known as well, so why were they not confused by him praying to himself?🤔

a reply to: VariedcodeSole

Good point.

Scripture says he took leave and went to the garden alone to pray.

Who was there writing this testimonial down?

Were they hiding in the bushes?

JESUS was in Mental Anguish the Night Before GOOD FRIDAY...Having Second Thoughts Perhaps?.

Second thoughts? No.

He was having anguish because He knew the enormity of what He was about to do. He knew the suffering He was going to go through and the human body recoils at that, but also being God He loved everyone and wanted to do it for us. He also knew that many would reject Him so He would suffer for them, but they would still be lost. That was His anguish.

originally posted by: Astrocometus
a reply to: HighEQ

I don't know Christ as I've never met him; I cannot love a character in a book only real life that I know exists here and now.

Sounds like that's really work'n out for ya but seek and you will find?

You see there' s this God peasant type hierachy that is very much like what we have on Earth where one must look up to others and think of 'some' as more important.

Yeah maybe that's because some people like to think they're more
important? Maybe they're trying to "Be like God". Maybe they know
something you don't?

And maybe they don't want people like you to know because that's how
they maintain their psychotic little hierarchy. And maybe because you
can't figure that out on your own? You deserve to stay in the dark only
thinking you have it all figured out.

Maybe

I thought you said no one would be angry at me challenging the staus quo? Sorry if I've upset you, as I said it is not my intention.

I did not claim to have it all figured out but that does not mean I am in the dark either. What are assumptions?

Why does it affect you so much what I write? If what I write is rubbish I'd think you'd just roll your eyes and move on. Is it something I've said that makes you question what you believe that has upset you?

I take no offence to your digs. I'm very accustomed to people not liking opposing or challenging views. I don't take it personally.

As I said I respect whatever people choose to believe. I thought this was a site for people who had different views from the norm. and people would be used to that.

If you want to talk about Christianity and the bible without being challenged I think the best place for you is church.

I'm not into arguements and won't be baited into one. I have nothing to prove to anyone, nor am I out to impress anyone.

Happy, happy. Peace out.

a reply to: HighEQ

I thought you said no one would be angry at me challenging the staus quo? Sorry if I've upset you, as I said it is not my intention.

Not upset at all just wondering if there's a point to your inquiries.

If you want to talk about Christianity and the bible without being challenged I think the best place for you is church.

It just levels the playing field to know if you're truly curious or being
skeptical or just trying to make a fool out of Bible believers. And all those are
fine no problem as long as I know.

So when do I get challenged?

originally posted by: VariedcodeSole
a reply to: Astrocometus

First of all, if Jesus is God, then why was he praying to himself?🤷🏻

"Why am I forsaking myself?" Is pretty much what he's asking if you believe he's God.

A very pertinent question with an exceedingly simple and obvious answer, that is only "tough" (quoting from Astrocometus' response to it) to answer for those who want to cling to the doctrines of men and do not want to acknowledge the simple and obvious answer, already given in the Bible and by Jesus himself on numerous occasions; if you are willing to accept what it teaches rather than the teachings of men that contradict with it (like the way Albone's comment is filled with contradictory speech when he follows up a teaching of men with pointing out something the Bible teaches at John 3:16, which contradicts his earlier statement of a teaching of men, then his statements after quoting John 3:16 are in line with John 3:16 again, but still contradict his earlier statement according to the teachings of men). Often because of those who command them to believe in these doctines of men, and to do so without actually comprehending it, even admitting themselves that they do not comprehend/understand it, but that comprehension/understanding is not required (as demonstrated in AwakeNotWoke's response to it). Jesus said at Matthew 15:7-9:

You hypocrites, Isaiah aptly prophesied about you when he said: ‘This people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far removed from me. It is in vain that they keep worshipping me, for they teach commands of men as doctrines.’” (note that he was quoting Isaiah there, so the "me" in there is not referring to himself*)

Trinity Doctrine, A False Teaching Of Man, Council of Nicaea (video playlist)

*: the One speaking in Isaiah 29:13 is clearly identified by name at the beginning of that verse, although that name will be replaced by dishonest Trinitarian Bible translators, so you would need a Bible translation that did not replace God's name there with "the LORD" or more deceptively "the Lord" (a noun that does not tell you which lord it is speaking of, not a personal name that clearly identifies the individual speaking there/the One speaking there). A noun that does not even appear in the Hebrew texts or manuscripts there nor does it have the same meaning as God's name, as in the argument that is in an adequate or appropiate substitute often accompanied by the lame excuse that we can't be 100% sure about how best to spell God's only and unique personal name in English or other languages. That's no excuse to change what it says with such an obvious Trinitarian agenda to conflate Jehovah God with the Lord Jesus Christ.

As for true Christians, "we worship what we know" (John 4:22). More on that later when I come back to the admission by Trinitarian teachers that they do not comprehend/understand (to use AwakeNotWoke's terminology again) who they are worshipping, i.e. a Triune (3-in-1) God. When people worship as their God a Trinity, which they admit is a “mystery,” can it be said that they ‘worship what they know’?

“You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know.”​—John 4:22.

To render any worship with lasting benefit to oneself, it is good to know what one worships, to worship what one knows. We do wisely to ask ourselves, Do I worship what I know? Or, could it be said to me and to my religious or irreligious associates*, “You [people] worship what you do not know”? (*: who often end up worshiping themselves, as sometimes for example expressed in the slogan “I believe in myself”, depending on how they interpret that rather vague slogan which can mean different things to different people.)

This matter of religion is a thing about which most people are very touchy. Not just radicals and communists, but many church members of Christendom are ashamed to be thought of as religious, when outside their church building. Many will choke off any discussion with a person of another religion by curtly saying: “I have my own religion!” Others, and they are many, after hearing someone present a religious argument, will say: “Your religion is truth to you, and my religion is truth to me, and so there is no need for me to change my religion.” But each one of that attitude might well ask himself, Would I resent it if someone who knew what he was talking about said to me: “You worship what you do not know”? The woman to whom such a statement was first made by a person of another religion did not resent it. It worked out well for her that she did not do so. She grabbed the opportunity to ask a further question. By this she found out why the one speaking to her was able to say what he said to her.

The woman was a Middle Eastern woman, a member of a provincial group known as Samaritans. She came upon this well-informed man seated at a deep well near the city of Sychar one noontime. It was in the year 30 of our Common Era, sometime after the Samaritans had celebrated their Passover feast in nearby Mount Gerizim, where once a Samaritan temple had stood. There is still a small colony of Samaritans at Mount Gerizim today, and at their shrine they have an ancient copy of the Pentateuch (the first five books of the Holy Bible as written by the prophet Moses), which they claim to be the oldest copy in existence today. Also, nearby, is a deep well, which is claimed to be the very well at which the Samaritan woman met this man. To the left of this well a grillwork partition has been erected on which occurs the tetragrammaton, the four Hebrew alphabetic letters that stand for the name of the God of Moses, namely, Jehovah or Yahweh. All this now stands inside a protective building, and tourists visit it.

The man proved to be of a race with whom the Samaritans then had no dealings, and yet he struck up a conversation with this Samaritan woman, which caused her to wonder. This lack of racial prejudice impressed her. Appropriately there at a well that was reputedly dug by the patriarch Jacob, the great-great-grandfather of Moses, the man spoke to her of a new thing, “living water,” after the drinking of which a person would not get thirsty again. He revealed to her facts about her most intimate life. This led her to ask him about a religious problem of that day. She said:

“Sir, I perceive you are a prophet. Our forefathers worshiped in this mountain; but you people say that in Jerusalem is the place where persons ought to worship.”​—John 4:1-20.

The man’s reply to her question was: “Believe me, woman, The hour is coming when neither in this mountain nor in Jerusalem will you people worship the Father. You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, because salvation originates with the Jews. Nevertheless, the hour is coming, and it is now, when the true worshipers will worship the Father with spirit and truth, for, indeed, the Father is looking for suchlike ones to worship him. God is a Spirit, and those worshiping him must worship with spirit and truth.”​—John 4:21-24.

[continued in next comment]

originally posted by: Astyanax
a reply to: WeMustCare

I had no idea God talked to Himself so formally.

That's actually not from when Jesus was in His passion.
The OP makes it look like it is, but it's from another part of the bible.

originally posted by: VariedcodeSole
Jesus is not God unless he was suffering from schizophrenia.

Yes He is. Jesus is God the Son. Second Person of the Holy Trinity.

John 1:1, 14 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. ... And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, full of grace and truth; we have beheld his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father.

John 10:30 — I and the Father are one.

John 20:28 — Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!”

Colossians 1:19 — For in him all the fulness of God was pleased to dwell.

Colossians 2:9 — For in him the whole fulness of deity dwells bodily ...

2 Peter 1:1 — ... our God and Savior Jesus Christ ...

Hebrews 1:8 — But of the Son he says, ‘Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever, the righteous scepter is the scepter of thy kingdom". God the Father calls his Son “God.” It is a reference to the Old Testament passage, Psalms 45:6-7.

In Hebrews 1:6, God the Father also says that all the angels should worship God the Son. Worship can only be rightly applied to God, as we know from Exodus 34:14 and Deuteronomy 8:19. Yet Jesus accepted worship of himself on many occasions (e.g., Matthew 14:33; 28:9) and stated that he should be honored equally with the Father (John 5:23). In Revelation 5:8, 12-13 and Colossians 2:6-7, we find that Jesus is worshiped in every way that the Bible specifically describes worship of God the Father, with all the same words used (see: Revelation 4:9-11, 5:13; 7:11-12, and Romans 11:33)

God the Father stated, “To me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear” (Isaiah 45:23). The same exact description is also applied to Jesus (Philippians 2:10-11).

The Bible teaches that “God” is judge (1 Samuel 2:10; Psalm 50:6; Ecclesiastes 12:14; many others). But so is Jesus (John 5:22, 27; 9:39; Acts 10:42; 2 Timothy 4:1). Therefore he is God.

God the Father sits on his throne in heaven (1 Kings 22:19; Psalm 11:4; 47:8). Jesus is on the same throne, too (Revelation 7:17; 22:1, 3).

Matthew 28:19 - Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.

Romans 9:5 To them belong the patriarchs, and from their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ, who is God over all, blessed forever. Amen.

1 John 5:20 And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true; and we are in him who is true, in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.

John 8:58 Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”

50 Biblical Proofs that Jesus is God

If you really dig deep, Jesus is actually the Arch Angel Michael. Jesus is the earthly persona of Michael, not God.

No. Jesus created the Arch Angel Michael. Jesus is not an angel. Jesus created them.

Colossians 1:16-17 For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. 17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

a reply to: VariedcodeSole

Who was this man to speak so authoritatively to this Samaritan woman? The woman showed that she had faith in the Messiah, whom those Jews speaking Greek called Christ, and she looked forward to such Messiah or Christ to settle finally all questions of worship. So she said: “I know that Messiah is coming, who is called Christ. Whenever that one arrives, he will declare all things to us openly.” But the question as to the place and manner of worshiping the divine Father had already been declared openly to this Samaritan woman, for the man said to her: “I am he, the one speaking to you.” If that woman lived for three years longer, she learned of further facts, undeniable facts, to prove that this man was indeed the Messiah, the long-promised Anointed One of God. But his personal name on earth was Jesus, which means “Salvation of Jehovah.” So he was called Jesus Christ.​—John 4:25, 26.

This was news indeed! And, inasmuch as the man was now joined by his twelve companions with food for their lunch, the Samaritan woman left her water jar at the well, returned to Sychar and told its’ inhabitants: “Come here, see a man that told me all the things I did. This is not perhaps the Christ, is it?” The Samaritans came out to see and hear. They had the man stay with them for two days. To what conclusion did they come? That this man was the Messianic Savior of not just the Jews who had no dealings back there with the Samaritans, but they said to the woman: “We do not believe any longer on account of your talk; for we have heard for ourselves and we know that this man is for a certainty the savior of the world.” (John 4:28-30, 39-42) Three years later the historical facts were provided to prove that those Samaritans were right: Jesus Christ is the Savior of all mankind. He knew what he was talking about to the Samaritan woman. (also consider how these Samaritans where as hated and despised by most of the Jews as Palestinians or Muslims today are, treated much the same way; but Jesus, although being a Jew by birth/ethnicity, did not behave the same way towards them. He taught them vital truths with love and kindness, in order that they too might be saved by worshiping “the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ”, Eph 1:3, and by consequently calling upon His name. For “everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved.” Romans 10:13 where Paul quotes Joel 2:32 from the Hebrew Scriptures.)

“DO I KNOW?” IS THE QUESTION

Suppose that Jesus Christ were personally on earth today and were saying to a certain religious group: “You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know.” Would he be including us with himself in saying: “We worship what we know”? Or would he be including us with the religious group that did not know what it was worshiping? The answers to these questions are of the highest importance to us today when there is being forced upon us the need to make an intelligent decision regarding whom or what we will worship. A person can fool himself by saying in stubborn pride and reliance upon himself: “I worship no one or nothing! I fear neither God nor man.” But in course of time telltale facts will come to light to show whom or what a person is worshiping.

Many claim to worship, not Buddha, nor one of the 330,000,000 gods of the Hindus, nor the Allah of the Mohammedans, nor the God of the modern-day Jews, but another kind of God, a nameless one who has no racial or national connections. He can be worshiped by everyone, with no racial or national ties to stumble him. Many today claim that this nameless God is the God of the Holy Bible.

Plainly, then, the question for each one is, Do I worship what I do not know, just as the Samaritans of nineteen centuries ago did? Or, Do I, like the Messiah, worship what I know? If we worship what the Messiah on earth knew, it will mean salvation for us, because the Messiah himself said so. He knew the heavenly Father about whom he spoke to the Samaritan woman. In proof of this he said: “Neither does anyone fully know the Father but the Son and anyone to whom the Son is willing to reveal him.” (Matt. 11:27) “The Father knows me and I know the Father.”​—John 10:15.

At the time that he said those words, the nation that was worshiping at the temple in Jerusalem was in a solemn contract or covenant with Jehovah God through his mediator, the prophet Moses. God was not in a national covenant with the Samaritans, even though they claimed to hold to the Pentateuch, five Bible books written by Moses. Because they rejected the rest of the inspired Sacred Scriptures, they were not worshiping at the right mountain and they did not properly know Jehovah God who revealed himself through all those inspired writings. Rightly, then, Jesus could say to the Samaritans: “You worship what you do not know.” But speaking for himself and the nation of which he was an earthly part, Jesus could say: “We worship what we know, because salvation originates with the Jews.” (John 4:22) This was true, since Jesus Christ in the days of his flesh was a circumcised Jew, and, even as the Samaritans of Sychar said regarding him, “We know that this man is for a certainty the savior of the world.”​—John 4:42.

Many racially prejudiced persons of today may stumble at Jesus’ statement: “Salvation originates with the Jews.” They might ask, ‘Does this mean that we must accept Judaism, get circumcised and go to the Jewish synagogue and make pilgrimages to Jerusalem if we desire to worship the true God?’

Well, what do we learn from what the Messiah Jesus told the Samaritan woman? Listen: “Believe me, woman, The hour is coming when neither in this mountain [Gerizim] nor in Jerusalem will you people worship the Father. . . . Nevertheless, the hour is coming, and it is now, when the true worshipers will worship the Father with spirit and truth, for, indeed, the Father is looking for suchlike ones to worship him. God is a Spirit, and those worshiping him must worship with spirit and truth.”​—John 4:21-24.

Those words indicated that a radical change was about to take place. Forty years later the city of Jerusalem was destroyed by the Roman legions under General Titus, and its temple for the worship of Jehovah God has not been reestablished there to this day. The city that was built there in the following century by the pagan Romans eventually became a “Christian” city where people of Christendom made pilgrimages. Still later it became a Mohammedan city, where the Moslems worshiped at the mosque that was built on the site of the former Jewish temple. Today that mosque still stands and all Jerusalem is now completely in the hands of the Jews who make up the Republic of Israel. But all this does not matter with the “true worshipers.” They do not have to worship Jehovah God at earthly Jerusalem or any other earthly city that is held to be sacred by various religionists, Vatican City not excluded. A special place on earth does not count with them. What they must without fail do, according to what Jesus told the Samaritan woman, is, worship the heavenly Father with spirit and truth. He is spirit, he is a Spirit, not confined to an earthly location.

Worshiping the heavenly Father, who is spiritual, is therefore not by means of physical, bodily contact with him. Rather than depending upon the presence and use of visible or material things and geographical locations, the true worshiper must have the right attitude that exercises faith rather than sight and touch; he must have the inclination and urging of pure worship regardless of place or things about him. He must not only show sincerity and wholeheartedness in his worship, but also have the truth. The heavenly Father is looking for those who seek the truth from Him and who worship him according to the truth, not according to the contradictory teachings and traditions of the hundreds of religious denominations of Christendom and other religious systems. Without the truth what kind of idea could any person have of what he worships as God? Ideas of God can vary millions of ways!

[continued in next comment]

a reply to: VariedcodeSole

The truth about God is progressive, and the true worshiper must show a love for the truth by keeping up with its progress. What of Jesus’ own nation according to the flesh? Could he keep on saying concerning that nation: “We worship what we know”? How could he do so? After hearing him preach for about three years the message, “The kingdom of God has drawn near!” the religious leaders of the nation, followed by most of the people, showed that they differed from him as to ideas of God. They showed that they preferred their religious traditions and precepts of men to what he pointed out to them from the inspired Holy Scriptures. They accused him of blasphemy and violently tried to kill him. At last their Supreme Court at Jerusalem did condemn him to death as a blasphemer of God. They even told the Roman governor Pontius Pilate that, according to their own law, Jesus ought to die for blasphemy. But in order to induce the Roman governor at Jerusalem to exercise his authority and have Jesus put to death they accused him of political sedition. Jesus’ death on an execution stake followed. So they were not with Jesus in worshiping what he knew!

Can we go along with that ancient nation in that course of action? Not if we want to worship the same God that Jesus worshiped, the God that he knew. To this day the descendants of that nation have not repudiated that stand that they took toward the Messiah Jesus. They rejected Jesus’ message and also the proofs that he gave that he was the long-promised Messiah, but they were forced to accept the fulfillment of Jesus’ prediction that the “holy city” of Jerusalem and its gorgeous temple would be destroyed, never to be rebuilt by the Jews. True to Jesus’ words, the horrifying destruction of Jerusalem and its temple came within that “generation,” in the year 70 C.E. (Matt. 24:1-34) Thus, although the Jews fanatically tried to have it otherwise, Jerusalem ceased to be the place to worship the only living and true God. Not even a Jewish temple stands there today to recommend it as the city at which to render united worship to a Known God. But the truthfulness of Jesus as the real Messianic prophet of this Known God stands established by inerasable facts of history. So, not Jesus, but the nation that rejected him, was rejected by this Known God.

So the fact that Jesus said, “Salvation originates with the Jews,” does not mean that eternal salvation is by means of that nation today and that we have to become a circumcised proselyte or member of it. We must become partners, not with the nation that rejected the Messiah, but with the Jewish “remnant” of some thousands of natural Jews who accepted the Messiah Jesus, in 33 C.E., and who became his faithful followers. (Rom. 11:1-7) After Jesus was resurrected from the dead and before he ascended to heaven, he gathered together the first members of this Jewish “remnant” of believers. On the day of Pentecost (Sivan 6, 33 C.E.) God used Jesus Christ to pour out from heaven the holy spirit upon those first members of the Jewish “remnant.” Thus they were able to worship God, not only with the “spirit” of genuine worship, but also with the help of God’s holy spirit, and also with the “truth” that was revealed by means of that holy spirit. (Acts 2:1-47) Later, in 36 C.E., this Jewish remnant passed on God’s message of salvation to the Gentiles or non-Jews. (Acts 10:1 to 11:18) So they were a channel by which salvation came to the Gentiles.

Later at the critical time before Jerusalem’s destruction as foretold by Jesus occurred, the members of that Jewish remnant neither returned to Jerusalem to celebrate any feasts nor stayed in it. Rather, they avoided and fled from Jerusalem and Judea just as Jesus, like a true prophet, had warned them to do. In that way they did not get destroyed with Jerusalem and its temple in the year 70 C.E. (Matt. 24:15-22; Luke 21:20-24) But they were not thereby deprived of a true place to worship the God whom they knew. No, but they kept on worshiping him at his true temple, which is not made by human hands, and which can never be destroyed by human hands. (Heb. 8:1, 2) It is of this Jewish “remnant” that Jesus Christ could continue to say after Pentecost of 33 C.E. his words to the Samaritan woman: “We worship what we know, because salvation originates with the Jews.” (John 4:22) Not with the rejected nation, but with this Jewish “remnant,” as if it were still alive, we must take our stand today if we desire salvation from God through his Messiah, Jesus.

HOW TO KNOW WHAT WE WORSHIP

To “worship what we know” means to worship the God whom we know. He is not some imaginary God. If we worship an imaginary God, it can be said to us by Jesus: “You worship what you do not know.” If we accept partial* facts even about the true God, but we thereafter refuse to accept the fully revealed truth about him, then what? (*: remember the expression used by WeMustCare: “A partial answer”) Then we get only an incomplete understanding of God. In fact, we get a distorted idea of God, and what we worship is really not the true God. We worship what we do not know; we worship someone nonexistent. That was the trouble with those Samaritans of the first century C.E. They accepted the inspired Pentateuch as written by the prophet Moses. But they stubbornly refused to accept the further revelation of Jehovah God as contained in the remaining thirty-four books of the inspired Hebrew Scriptures. So they had, not only an incomplete conception of Jehovah God, but also an incorrect conception of him. That is why they refused to go up to Jerusalem’s temple to worship, but worshiped at Mount Gerizim. They did not accept the up-to-date historical record of God’s activities and truth.

The like thing became true of the nation of which Jesus Christ was a natural member. They claimed to accept all the inspired Hebrew Scriptures up to that time, namely, the Law, the Prophets and the Psalms, but, as Jesus Christ pointed out to them, they made the commandments of God null and void by their traditions and precepts of uninspired men. (Matt. 15:1-9; Luke 24:44, 45) Further than that, they refused to discern and acknowledge the fulfillment of the inspired Hebrew prophecies as these were fulfilled in Jesus Christ. So they did not accept him as the Scripturally foretold Messiah. Consistent with this, they did not join up with the Jewish “remnant” of believers who received the holy spirit of God on the day of Pentecost. Further, they did not accept the final part of the Holy Scriptures, namely, the inspired Scriptures that were written in Greek by faithful apostles and disciples of the Messiah Jesus. To those unbelieving Jews divine inspiration and revelation of truth ceased with the books of Malachi and Chronicles so that to them the books from Matthew to Revelation are not an inspired addition to the Hebrew Scriptures.

How has this resulted for this nation whose city of Jerusalem and its temple were destroyed in 70 C.E. and whose priesthood was thus put out of business? It has resulted for them in a misconception of God. They worship a God who has not lived up to his promises and prophecies till now. They worship a God who did not send his promised Messiah in the person of Jesus Christ, “son of David, son of Abraham.” (Matt. 1:1) They worship a God who did not raise up his Messiah from the dead and seat him at his own right hand in heaven as “both Lord and Christ.” (Acts 2:22-36) They worship a God who did not make a “new covenant” with a new “holy nation,” an “Israel of God” that is spiritual, by means of a mediator greater than Moses, namely, by the Messiah Jesus.​—Jer. 31:31-34; Deut. 18:15-18; Acts 3:20-24; Heb. 8:7-13; 1 Tim. 2:5, 6.

So they worship a God whose Messiah must not come now a second time to establish over all the earth the Messianic kingdom for the blessing of all mankind with a government of endless peace and righteousness. (2 Sam. 7:4-17; Isa. 9:6, 7; Dan. 2:44; 7:13, 14) As a result, the Jewish nation does not worship the true God, although their faithful forefathers did worship him.

Concerning them, the Christian apostle, who was once himself a persecutor of the Jewish Christian remnant, wrote: “Brothers, the goodwill of my heart and my supplication to God for them are, indeed, for their salvation. For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God; but not according to accurate knowledge; for, because of not knowing the righteousness of God but seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God. For Christ [Messiah] is the end of the Law, so that everyone exercising faith may have righteousness.” (Rom. 10:1-4; 1 Tim. 1:12-16; Gal. 1:13, 14) What, then, shall it be said of the once favored nation that rejects the God of the Messiah? Their religious zeal is “not according to accurate knowledge,” but they too are worshiping what they do not know. They do not worship the God of the inspired Christian Greek Scriptures, who is the same as the God of the inspired Hebrew Scriptures.

[continued in next comment]

a reply to: VariedcodeSole

Well then, is Christendom as a worshiper of her so-called Triune God worshiping what she knows? Or is she worshiping what she does not know? How can we know? By searching the inspired Hebrew Scriptures and the inspired Christian Greek Scriptures, for both sets of Scriptures belong together as one inspired Book.

In neither section of that Book will the searcher find the expression “Triune God” or “Trinity,” nor is there any Scriptural argument therein in favor of such a so-called “God in three Persons,” namely, God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Ghost. To the very contrary, in answer to the question, “Which commandment is first of all?” Jesus Christ answered: “The first is, ‘Hear, O Israel, Jehovah our God is one Jehovah, and you must love Jehovah your God with your whole heart and with your whole soul and with your whole mind and with your whole strength.’” In that answer Jesus quoted from the Pentateuch at Deuteronomy 6:4, 5. (Mark 12:28-30) But Christendom does not obey this “first” commandment to worship the one God whose name is Jehovah.

How, then, can Christendom worship aright? Though she refuses to admit it, she worships the pagan idea of God, a triad. Her idea of God is as varied as are the hundreds of religious sects into which she is split up. Who can deny that Christendom worships what she does not know?* There is no salvation by her! (*: a guess a liar could deny it, vehemently and by talking in contradictions after just admitting they do not comprehend the doctrine of the Trinity or Trinitarian dogma but believe it anyway, and tell/command you you should too, cause “That's the only answer you need. If you don't want to accept it, that your problem.” Quoting AwakeNotWoke and coming back to the commands spoken of by Jesus himself at Matthew 15:7-9 as he quotes, or paraphrases Jehovah saying at Isaiah 29:13: “their fear of me is based on commands of men that they have been taught.”)

Salvation to everlasting life in happiness is by worshiping what Jesus and his true followers know to be the true God. One of such followers, the apostle Paul, wrote under inspiration from God and said: “This is fine and acceptable in the sight of our Savior, God, whose will is that all sorts of men should be saved and come to an accurate knowledge of truth. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus, who gave himself a corresponding ransom for all.” (1 Tim. 2:3-6) “Now there is no mediator where only one person is concerned, but God is only one.” (Gal. 3:20) So God is one party to his “new covenant,” and men who are brought into that new covenant make up the other party or other side of the arrangement; and such men can come to an “accurate knowledge of truth” through the “one mediator between God and men.” That mediator was once here on earth as a man, a perfect man, who because of his human perfection and sinlessness was able to give himself as a “corresponding ransom for all.” That Mediator is the Messiah Jesus or Christ Jesus. Since he mediates for the God whom he knows, he leads us to “worship what we know,” God.

So Jesus told that woman at a well in Samaria that she worshiped what she did not know. Do you worship what you do not know? Or do you really worship what you know?

Cause there is someone who prefers you worshiping what you do not know (see Rev 12:9 and John 8:42-47), but...


“And the father of the lie.”

John 8:42-55

Jesus said to them [the Jewish religious leaders]: “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and I am here. I have not come of my own initiative, but that One sent me. 43 Why do you not understand what I am saying? Because you cannot listen to* [Or “accept.”] my word. 44 You are from your father the Devil, and you wish to do the desires of your father. That one was a murderer when he began, and he did not stand fast in the truth, because truth is not in him. When he speaks the lie, he speaks according to his own disposition, because he is a liar and the father of the lie. 45 Because I, on the other hand, tell you the truth, you do not believe me. 46 Who of you convicts me of sin? If I speak truth, why is it that you do not believe me? 47 The one who is from God listens to the sayings of God. This is why you do not listen, because you are not from God.” 48 In answer the Jews said to him: “Are we not right in saying, ‘You are a Sa·marʹi·tan and have a demon’?” 49 Jesus answered: “I do not have a demon, but I honor my Father, and you dishonor me. 50 But I am not seeking glory for myself; there is One who is seeking and judging. 51 Most truly I say to you, if anyone observes my word, he will never see death at all.” 52 The Jews said to him: “Now we do know that you have a demon. Abraham died, also the prophets, but you say, ‘If anyone observes my word, he will never taste death at all.’ 53 You are not greater than our father Abraham, who died, are you? The prophets also died. Who do you claim to be?” 54 Jesus answered: “If I glorify myself, my glory is nothing. It is my Father who glorifies me, the one who you say is your God. 55 Yet you have not known him, but I know him. And if I said I do not know him, I would be like you, a liar. But I do know him and am observing his word.

Matthew 13:13-15

That is why I speak to them by the use of illustrations; for looking, they look in vain, and hearing, they hear in vain, nor do they get the sense of it. 14 And the prophecy of Isaiah is being fulfilled in their case. It says: ‘You will indeed hear but by no means get the sense of it, and you will indeed look but by no means see. 15 For the heart of this people has grown unreceptive, and with their ears they have heard without response, and they have shut their eyes, so that they might never see with their eyes and hear with their ears and get the sense of it with their hearts and turn back and I heal them.’

“For there will be a period of time when they will not put up with the wholesome* [Or “healthful; beneficial.”] teaching, but according to their own desires, they will surround themselves with teachers to have their ears tickled.* [Or “to tell them what they want to hear.”] They will turn away from listening to the truth and give attention to false stories.” (2 Timothy 4:3,4)

“So we should no longer be children, tossed about as by waves and carried here and there by every wind of teaching by means of the trickery of men, by means of cunning in deceptive schemes.” (Ephesians 4:14)

“And stop being molded by this system of things,* [ Or “this age.”] but be transformed by making your mind over, so that you may prove to yourselves the good and acceptable and perfect will of God.” (Romans 12:2)

“Look out that no one takes you captive by means of the philosophy and empty deception according to human tradition, according to the elementary things of the world and not according to Christ;” “We have much to say about him, and it is difficult to explain, because you have become dull in your hearing. For although by now* [Lit., “in view of the time.”] you should be teachers, you again need someone to teach you from the beginning the elementary things of the sacred pronouncements of God, and you have gone back to needing milk, not solid food. For everyone who continues to feed on milk is unacquainted with the word of righteousness, for he is a young child. But solid food belongs to mature people, to those who through use have their powers of discernment* [Or “their perceptive powers.”] trained to distinguish both right and wrong.” (Col 2:8; Hebrews 5:11-14)

“However, the inspired word clearly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to misleading inspired statements and teachings of demons, by means of the hypocrisy of men who speak lies, whose conscience is seared as with a branding iron.”(1 Timothy 4:1,2).

Knowledge (Insight on the Scriptures, Volume 2)

Knowledge (gno'sis) is put in a very favorable light in the Christian Greek Scriptures. However, not all that men may call “knowledge” is to be sought, because philosophies and views exist that are “falsely called ‘knowledge.’” (1Ti 6:20) ... ... Thus Paul wrote about some who were learning (taking in knowledge) “yet never able to come to an accurate knowledge [...] of truth.” (2Ti 3:6, 7)

“... having an appearance of godliness but proving false to its power and from these turn away. From among these arise men who slyly work their way into households and captivate weak women loaded down with sins, led by various desires, always learning and yet never able to come to an accurate knowledge of truth.” (2Ti 3:5-7)

“Timothy, guard what has been entrusted to you, turning away from the empty speeches that violate what is holy and from the contradictions of the falsely called ‘knowledge.’ By making a show of such knowledge, some have deviated from the faith.
May the undeserved kindness be with you.” (1Ti 6:20,21)

a reply to: FlyersFan

That's actually not from when Jesus was in His passion.

You make it sound like childbirth.

But yes, I know. Psalm 88. It's a thug's prayer, prayed out of fear, on the run; not Jesus's style at all.

originally posted by: Astrocometus
a reply to: HighEQ

I thought you said no one would be angry at me challenging the staus quo? Sorry if I've upset you, as I said it is not my intention.

Not upset at all just wondering if there's a point to your inquiries.

If you want to talk about Christianity and the bible without being challenged I think the best place for you is church.

It just levels the playing field to know if you're truly curious or being
skeptical or just trying to make a fool out of Bible believers. And all those are
fine no problem as long as I know.

So when do I get challenged?

Good, I'm glad.

My point is just to provide alternative perspectives for those who may be interested in that kind of thing. That was what the post appeared to be about questioning whether Jesus was having second thoughts and why. Absolutely not to make a fool of anyone. If believing in the bible makes someone a better person then I'm all for it.

A challenge 'ey. You asked for it LOL. Well I know you are into metal so how about Iron Maiden, The Number of the Beast. What he sees regarding sacrifice (killing) and who is doing it. The God in the bible also asks for sacrificing.

You don' t have to reply because I don't want to take this thread off topic.

a reply to: whereislogic

You lost me after "but that comprehension/understanding is not required". I wish I could have interjected in time so you wouldn't waste yours over-explaining your so-called simple answer. Copy and paste......copy and paste...smh.

Jesus is not God, he is God's Son. If Jesus is God, than he logically created himself because God created Jesus. It's a ridiculous assertion.

You can keep the webinar you posted. I'm not wasting my time.