The Obscene Energy Demands of AI

Here's something that's not being talked about, but which touches on the important issues of energy use and abuse, CO2 emissions, and politics.

With everyone concerned about what AI can and can't do, or should or shouldn't do, no one is talking about the infrastructure costs of all this "stuff".

According to an article in the New Yorker, we're in for a very rude awakening in the very near future. And no one is even thinking about it, let alone prepared. One of AI's chief cheerleaders recently was quoted in the article as follows:

Recently, the world’s most prominent A.I. cheerleader, Sam Altman, the C.E.O. of OpenAI, voiced similar concerns, albeit with a different spin. “I think we still don’t appreciate the energy needs of this technology,” Altman said at a public appearance in Davos. He didn’t see how these needs could be met, he went on, “without a breakthrough.” He added, “We need fusion or we need, like, radically cheaper solar plus storage, or something, at massive scale—like, a scale that no one is really planning for.”

So, how do we prepare for and handle this? Should it be up to government or private industry? How important and strategic is AI to our future and our countries future?

I don't have the answers. But I think we better at least start asking the questions forthwith.

Obscene Energy Demands of AI

I've brought up this issue before in a discussion about AI taking over and was blown off.

a reply to: SchrodingersRat

possibly look at their drive to push us peons into a niche market to minimize our usage, next step would be to follow and see if they are really closing power plants or just putting them to sleep so to speak.

might be one way to free up the power needed till a bigger more efficient power source becomes viable.

originally posted by: Irishhaf
a reply to: SchrodingersRat

possibly look at their drive to push us peons into a niche market to minimize our usage, next step would be to follow and see if they are really closing power plants or just putting them to sleep so to speak.

might be one way to free up the power needed till a bigger more efficient power source becomes viable.

True. Or at least until fusion comes along, according to Sam Altman.

Fusion.

I thought it was a flux capacitor...

lol!

originally posted by: TheMichiganSwampBuck
I've brought up this issue before in a discussion about AI taking over and was blown off.

I probably will be too, but it has my interest and I'm digging deeper to see what I can find out.

The energy requirement is a total non issue-

The AI will decide there is an abudant source of power in the form of meat batteries-or humans as we like to call ourselves.

If it works out like the "Rokos Basilisk" thought experiment-the AI will become vindictive to any human who,before the AI was created,did not help to build the AI

So anyone who didnt help build,and probably anyone who disagreed with the idea of unregulated AI---will likely become the first meat batteries.

Who says theres nothing to look forward to in wonderful techno clown dimension?


en.wikipedia.org...'s_basilisk

a reply to: SchrodingersRat

I believe it is all by design. Keep us divided.

We have all the energy we need. They just control the supply to put the screws to us.

If MIT can fly a drone with no moving parts, we sure as hell have a way to harvest energy from the earth.

I actually believe there are people using this tech now for themselves.

And will never tell a soul. They don't want dirt naps.

Has anyone ever put together a simple presentation of what Artificial Intelligence does, using real-world examples?

I hope my Android phone isn't an example. It can't even take a spoken name, and spell it like its spelling in my contacts.

originally posted by: Irishhaf
a reply to: SchrodingersRat

possibly look at their drive to push us peons into a niche market to minimize our usage, next step would be to follow and see if they are really closing power plants or just putting them to sleep so to speak.

might be one way to free up the power needed till a bigger more efficient power source becomes viable.

You can't put power plants 'to sleep'.

Most are boilers burning something, gas, oil or coal. When you burn fuel in the boiler it leaves a chemical residue on the metal and in the fire bricks. This residue turns acidic when exposed to moisture and eats the metal tubes that hold the water to be boiled. The only thing that keeps this from happening all the time is the fire that dries the inside while it is heating up. If you leave a boiler for say a year without running it, it will have to be retubed. That is a long process and very expensive. I helped retube one. It is not fun or easy.

I ran several boilers for years in a carpet mill. Each one was bigger than a small house. We installed a used one that had sit idle for just over a year. During initial testing, warming it up to test all the safety controls, the tubes literally fell apart. The state inspector said to go ahead and bring it to full pressure and test the safety's and then he would come.back and certify it for operation. It was a cheap purchase that took months to completely rebuild.

I talked to the inspector and a major power company in the state did the same thing. They let one sit for a couple of years and it came apart when they tried to start it back up. But that one would hold my entire boiler room inside the fire box of that boiler. Much bigger and expensive a problem. They don't explode, just spring leaks inside until the pumps can't keep up or just fill up the fire portion with water. They don't have time to build enough pressure before they start leaking.

Nuclear reactors, I understand, have a similar problem with corosion from sitting idle but with the added problem of being radioactive and regulated much more strictly than just fuel boilers.

I wish someone would inform AI that it uses too much energy to run so it can advise the ones that make it it's energy use is not rational.

Now I suppose AI will be steered to discredit me....I do a good enough job at discrediting myself, I do not need AI helping me.

a reply to: SchrodingersRat

The article is from 2024?

An article from Dec 15, 2017?

In 2020 Bitcoin will consume more power than the world does today

Dec 15, 2017


www.weforum.org...

And bitcoin mining (the process of generating a bitcoin) now consumes the same amount of electricity every year as Denmark - 33TWh, according to one recent report.
An earlier report found that Bitcoin mining uses more electricity than a country the size of Ireland, Serbia or Bahrain.

Bitcoin mining's energy use is reportedly growing at a rate of 25% per month. At that rate of growth, it will consume as much electricity as the US in 2019.

And by 2020, bitcoin mining could be consuming the same amount of electricity every year as is currently used by the entire world.

If you missed it…

Bitcoin mining's energy use is reportedly growing at a rate of 25% per month. At that rate of growth, it will consume as much electricity as the US in 2019.

And by 2020, bitcoin mining could be consuming the same amount of electricity every year as is currently used by the entire world.

It’s now 2024.

One. Did the USA double its capacity to make electricity in 2019?

Two. Did the world double its capacity to make electricity by 2020?


Anyway. Net electricity generation in the United States from 1950 to 2022 (in terawatt-hours).

www.statista.com...

www.statista.com...

I don’t think the world has doubled its electricity production from 2017. I’m guessing the estimates on how much bitcoin and A.I. uses is flawed.

I get there is a crunch on the electrical supply. But bitcoin and A.I. vs AC, heating, electrical cars, servers to run video games like Halo, fortnight, call of duty and so on.

a reply to: SchrodingersRat

AGI is just about as far away as fusion power so there is that.

With the mainstream AI systems built on mainstream propaganda, prepare for a few obscenities when it comes to reality.

a reply to: Lazy88

Bitcoin mining's energy use is reportedly growing at a rate of 25% per month. At that rate of growth, it will consume as much electricity as the US in 2019.

And by 2020, bitcoin mining could be consuming the same amount of electricity every year as is currently used by the entire world.

It’s now 2024.

One. Did the USA double its capacity to make electricity in 2019?

Two. Did the world double its capacity to make electricity by 2020?

Interesting information.

I know a little about Bitcoin and the massive amounts of hardware dedicated to building it. I believe it was discovered that graphics cards with powerful GPU's do it best.

So the other winners here would be companies like NVidia and Radeon. They are the 2 big heavyweights, the other being Intel. If you want to mine Bitcoin effectively you need to use these companies products.

I should definitely buy some of NVidia's stock. I think it's always historically been a good performer anyway.

originally posted by: kwaka
With the mainstream AI systems built on mainstream propaganda, prepare for a few obscenities when it comes to reality.

At least that will be entertaining.

a reply to: onestonemonkey

That's because the AI will just tell us how to make a flooblecrank for generating waste power. From that point it will have all the power it needs.

Peace among worlds.

Ladies and gentlemen, we have fusion.

www.energy.gov...

Fusion + Quantum Computing + A.I. = Future

Take a chill pill George Jetson, we made it.

a reply to: TinfoilTophat

All these moving parts require some intricate choreography, but if everything works the way the simulations suggest, the company hopes to build a full-scale, deuterium-tritium-burning power plant by the 2030s.


www.canarymedia.com...

When will fusion supply the electrical grid

ChatGPT
Fusion power has great potential, but widespread integration into the electrical grid is still under development. While experimental reactors exist, commercial fusion power plants are not yet operational. Predictions vary, but it's likely to be at least a decade or more before fusion could significantly supply the electrical grid on a large scale.

Shrugs.