Russians chant ‘Putin is a killer’ in biggest act of defiance since war began

originally posted by: UpIsNowDown2
a reply to: Kurokage

Can i just add all are welcome to this conversation, including those from Russia, there are many threads started on ATS at the moment where it is implied that the British must refrain from posting

ATS welomes conversation

Russia disconnected most internet connections from the internet. They limited it to a couple of sites that can reach the web. And thise sights are monitored. if they are on here they have full approval of Putin to do so. Or the very least being monitored It is actualy been doing testing on removing themselves from the net. So don't expect comments about his death.

www.scientificamerican.com...

originally posted by: strongfp
a reply to: glen200376

If churches are turning away people for funerals, and it's a high profile political figure, it just goes to show that, yes, the corruption has become systemic. Meaning, you know that church and state are not separate. They have chosen a side, or, can't.

The Russian Orthodox Church was infiltrated by the government long ago. It was the only way it was allowed to survive during the purge of Lenin and Stalin and others. While it was mostly done away with by WWII Stalin realized he needed religious backing and fervor to help the war effort so he appointed a Patriarch and allowed the Russian Orthodox Church to remain as a tool of the Soviet State to impress the people into the military. After WWII he allowed it to continue as a tool of the KGB:

⚠I should add here that this information is banned in Russia, so Russians on this website read this at your own risk⚠

Richard Overy, professor of modern history at King’s College, London, explained in his book Russia’s War—Blood Upon the Snow: “Metropolitan Sergei [Sergius], head of the Church, appealed to the faithful on the very day of the German invasion to do everything to bring about victory. He published no fewer than twenty-three epistles in the next two years, calling on his flock to fight for the godless state they lived in.” So, as Overy continued, ‘Stalin allowed religion to flourish again.’

In 1943, Stalin finally agreed to recognize the Orthodox Church by appointing Sergius as its new patriarch. “The Church authorities responded by raising money from the faithful to fund a Soviet armored column,” Overy noted. “Priests and bishops exhorted their congregations to observe the faith, God’s and Stalin’s.”

Describing this period of Russian history, the Russian religious scholar Sergei Ivanenko wrote: ‘The official publication of the Russian Orthodox Church, The Journal of the Moscow Patriarchate, praised Stalin as the greatest leader and teacher of all times and nations, sent by God to save the nation from oppression, landowners, and capitalists. It called upon believers to give their last drop of blood in defending the USSR from its enemies and to give their all to build Communism.’

“Highly Valued by the KGB”

Even after World War II ended in 1945, the Orthodox Church remained useful to the Communists. The Soviet Union: The Fifty Years, edited by Harrison Salisbury, revealed how this was so: “With the war’s end, church leaders fell in with the Cold War demands of Stalin’s foreign policy.”

The recent book The Sword and the Shield describes how church leaders served Soviet interests. It explains that Patriarch Alexis I, who had succeeded Sergius as patriarch in 1945, “joined the World Peace Council, the Soviet front organization founded in 1949.” The book also notes that he and Metropolitan Nikolai “were highly valued by the KGB [the Soviet State Security Committee] as agents of influence.”

Remarkably, in 1955, Patriarch Alexis I declared: “The Russian Orthodox Church supports the totally peaceful foreign policy of our government, not because the Church allegedly lacks freedom, but because Soviet policy is just and corresponds to the Christian ideals which the Church preaches.”

In the January 22, 2000, issue of The Guardian of London, England, dissident Orthodox priest Georgi Edelshtein is quoted as saying: “All the bishops were carefully picked so that they would work with the soviet government. All were KGB agents. It is well known that Patriarch Alexy was recruited by the KGB, under the code-name of Drozdov. Today, they are preserving the same politics that they had 20 or 30 years ago.”

A Handmaiden of the Soviet State

Regarding the relationship between the Orthodox Church and the Soviets, Life magazine of September 14, 1959, observed: “Stalin gave some concessions to religion, and the church treated him like a czar. Orthodoxy’s collaboration is ensured by a special government ministry and the Communists have utilized the church ever since as an arm of the Soviet state.”

Matthew Spinka, an authority on Russian church affairs, confirmed the existence of a close Church-State relationship in his 1956 book, The Church in Soviet Russia. “The present Patriarch Alexei,” he wrote, “has deliberately made his Church a tool of the government.” Indeed, the Orthodox Church, in effect, survived by becoming a handmaiden of the State. ‘But is that so reprehensible?’ you may ask. Well, consider how God and Christ view the matter.

Jesus Christ said of his true disciples: “You are no part of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world.” And God’s Word pointedly asks: “Adulteresses, do you not know that the friendship with the world is enmity with God?” (John 15:19; James 4:4) Thus, as the Bible presents it, the church made itself a religious harlot with whom “the kings of the earth committed fornication.” It has shown itself to be part of what the Bible calls “Babylon the Great, the mother of the harlots and of the disgusting things of the earth.”—Revelation 17:1-6.

Church Collaboration With the Soviets

In his 1945 book, Russia Is No Riddle, Edmund Stevens wrote: “The Church took great care not to bite the hand that was now feeding it. It fully realized that in return for the favors bestowed the State expected the Church to give its firm support to the system and to operate within certain limits.”

Stevens went on to explain: “The tradition of centuries as the official State religion was deeply rooted in the Orthodox Church, and it therefore slipped very naturally into its new role of close collaboration with the Soviet Government.”

The Keston Institute thoroughly researched the past collaboration between the Soviets and Alexis II, today’s patriarch of the Russian Orthodox Church. Its report concluded: “Aleksi’s collaboration was nothing exceptional—almost all senior leaders of all officially-recognised religious faiths—including the Catholics, Baptists, Adventists, Muslims and Buddhists—were recruited KGB agents. Indeed, the annual report that describes Aleksi’s recruitment also covers numerous other agents, some of them in the Estonian Lutheran Church.”

See the following articles:

The Soviet Attack on Religion

A Focus of the Soviet Attack

How Religion Survived

Sanctioned Ivan just dropped this video giving his view from inside Russia on todays events .


Salute a man who dares to speak.

buried a nit under the music from Terminator 2, although 7 40 would have been more appropriate

a reply to: Kurokage
I really never cared enough to know who this Navalny guy is or why he is important to Europe, or America for that matter. maybe when I read the rest of this thread I will find out. Maybe it will make me want to spend $60 billion getting another hundred thousand Ukrainians and some Frenchmen killed, who knows.

I sure hope those protestors are left alone though. I like to call Biden a killer a liar, and a hair sniffer a lot in public and manage to enjoy not being face slammed into the side of a car by a badge. These folks should be able to enjoy that same right if they feel that way about their own country's leadership. I know I feel that way alot about mine and express it freely.

Hopefully Putin's ego is not so fragile he cracks down on these dissidents.

a reply to: gortex

I have to wonder how he hasn't received a visit from the FSB yet.

That Canadian family got shut down pretty quick after speaking bad about Russia.

a reply to: worldstarcountry

I like to call Biden a killer a liar, and a hair sniffer a lot in public and manage to enjoy not being face slammed into the side of a car by a badge. These folks should be able to enjoy that same right if they feel that way about their own country's leadership.

This is it. This is the point. The vital difference between the world of democracy (however imperfect it is) and the world of totalitarian terror. And my main beef with Russia that it tramples down people's freedom.

Well I just finished reading this thread, and was a bit disappointed at all the alleged grown ups fawning over this fellow like Princess Diana funeral. You know folks, people die in prison. I always championed that here in America, we have the highest prison population because we are more effective or willing to escalate penalties for habitual behavior/offenders. But also that international cartel and mob types hate being extradited to an American prison because we are better at keeping them locked up and dismissing bribery and extortion.

I knew dudes get shanked here, or hung like Epstein, but I figured that was actually more isolated than I realized was true. I have been a bit traumatized by what I have witnessed in videos in Central and South American prisons, so I always hold up the USA as the gold standard of criminal detention/rehabilitation in a democratic society. Yea they are scum of the Earth much of the time, but some of them are still human. It does not benefit our soul to be excessively cruel to prisoners. But damn a per annum death rate within the states of 3300-3500 prisoners a year?? Well to be fair the majority of it is chronic illness like cancer and heart disease though. Suicide and homicide are much lower by comparison.

Combined U.S. prisoner deaths were 3,170 in 2001 and rose to 4,513, the highest number recorded, in 2018. Cancer (1,137) and heart disease (1,052) were the leading causes of prisoners’ deaths in 2018. Both numbers had been fairly steady since 2013. By contrast, the number of deaths attributed to drug/alcohol intoxication and suicide rose dramatically in recent years. Only 50 deaths were attributed to drug/alcohol intoxication in 2014. This quintupled to 249 by 2018. Likewise, the 192 prisoner suicides in 2013 increased by 62% to 311 in 2018. Just between 2017 and 2018, drug/alcohol deaths increased 23% and suicides increased 20%.

The mortality rate of state prisoners in 2018 (319 per 100,000) was lower than the mortality rate for the entire adult U.S. population (1,110/100,000) even when adjusted for age, race or ethnicity, and sex (419/100,000). Notably, the mortality rates for AIDS-related and liver disease fell from 23/100,000 and 26/100,000, respectively in 2001 to 2/100,000 and 18/100,000 in 2018, reflecting medical advances in treating those diseases. Meanwhile the mortality rate for homicide rose from 3/100,000 in 2001 to 10/100,000 in 2018.

Overall, illness was the cause of death for 87% of state and 90% of federal prisoners in 2018. Suicide accounted for 6% of state and 5% of federal prisoner deaths. Homicide amounted to 2% of state and nearly 3% of federal prisoner deaths. 61% of the state prisoners who died in 2018 were over 54, a dramatic increase from the 34% in 2001.This probably reflects the aging of the U.S. prisoner population as prisoners serve ever longer average sentences.

It is interesting to note that while the numbers of homicides are higher in state prisons, the percentage is higher in Federal prisons ... I wonder how many of these were patriots quietly disappeared after the Jade Helm drills. The videos of some of the helicopters at night and machine gun fire and booms are still around. But I have difficulty finding the ones where they were escorting a line of people that appeared to look like civilians into awaiting trucks and helicopters like I saw one in Miami and another in Nevada i think during the news coverage at the time.

To this day, I wonder how much was a drill, and how much was an actual operation ... especially with a higher percentage of Federal custody homicides ...

I bet Europeans got the lowest overall mortality in prisons because I think they have a empathetic hearts and tend to show mercy near end of life for older infirm prisoners and just let them out. Can our European respondents confirm my assumptions?

a reply to: worldstarcountry

You know folks, people die in prison.

But Alexei Navalny was a political prisoner and not a gang member or murderer.
The Russian government wouldn't allow an independent autopsy to take place and it took his mother to take court action against the prison to have his body released and only if his parents signed to say it was natural causes.

originally posted by: worldstarcountry
a reply to: Kurokage
I really never cared enough to know who this Navalny guy is or why he is important to Europe, or America for that matter. maybe when I read the rest of this thread I will find out. Maybe it will make me want to spend $60 billion getting another hundred thousand Ukrainians and some Frenchmen killed, who knows.

I sure hope those protestors are left alone though. I like to call Biden a killer a liar, and a hair sniffer a lot in public and manage to enjoy not being face slammed into the side of a car by a badge. These folks should be able to enjoy that same right if they feel that way about their own country's leadership. I know I feel that way alot about mine and express it freely.

Hopefully Putin's ego is not so fragile he cracks down on these dissidents.

He was an opposition candidate who surived several assasination attempts by Putin using nerve agents, he was falsely imprisoned for years, poisoned and tortured throughout his incarceration until finally dying in what appears to be an FSB hit.

The protestors are highly unlikely to be left alone as anyone who publicly opposes Putin faces rape, torture, false imprisonment and death.

originally posted by: RussianTroll

originally posted by: YouSir

originally posted by: CarlLaFong

originally posted by: Kurokage

Maybe one day this will be seen as a big step forward towards the freeing of the Russian people from Putin's dictatorship.

Let's hope so.
Unfortunately, I remember hoping the same thing during the Tiananmen Square protest.

Ummm...or the January 6th insurrection...

YouSir

But, unlike January 6, Putin did not disperse anyone))))

No, he arrested them instead...

www.rferl.org...

Police forces were out in large numbers across Russia, and although no immediate incidents were reported during the funeral ceremony, more than 120 people were later detained in Moscow, St. Petersburg, Novosibirsk, Yekaterinburg, and other Russian cities for participating in rallies in Navalny's memory.

edition.cnn.com...

At least one person has been arrested at the funeral for Russian opposition figure Alexey Navalny, monitoring group OVD-Info reported Friday.

An additional 22 people were detained when they tried to leave their homes to attend the funeral, according to OVD-Info.

a reply to: Kurokage
Right, #hole policies of a #hole foreign country thousands of miles and multiple oceans from my home. And a thousand miles from most Western Europeans.

What about the political prisoners in our own countries? And yes, we do have them. I would like to find this level of concern and state media resources, for our political prisoners. Why the heck do we care what happens in Russia?? it is a European problem, and if France and Germany wang to expose their citizens and infrastructure to an open war with Russia, we should allow them to do just that, on their own . I have no interest in shielding the corruption of Ukraine which was the epicenter of the money laundering of our own political criminals ruining our country, right now, right here.

You want to call me callous and cruel because I don't feign this dramatic display of emotion to some Baltic Slav who has zero effing influence or impact on an American or European life for that matter, go right ahead be my guest. His only relevance is in Russia, and I am frankly more concerned for America's well being right now which is in danger because of an undeclared war none of our taxpayers approved of against the largest nuclear power on Earth. It went from pretending it wasn't happening, to saying well we got people there but they not really doing nothing directly, to we are directly involved. basically each claim keeps getting exposed for the lie it is, and we keep rationalizing why this is ok, why we need this war. it is not rational people!!

Why are we allowing ourselves to be conned into thinking "yea ok, lets just go to open war with Russia now since our corrupt vasal could not pull it off!" When did we get so lazy in our thinking? There is very little to nothing of redeeming value in Ukraine worth losing buildings and bases in Poland and Germany and the increased terror that will retaliated with in other European cities as the Russian intelligence agencies recruit those hostile immigrants from years of open borders policies.

Please fellow thinkers, can we not break free of this trance like state we have found ourselves in?? Is that frequency thing from the Kingsmen movie for real? Is Samuel Jackson sitting in a control room with a dial and just adjusting peoples aggression and scaling back their logic?

Please folks, understand when we are all being misled to a path of doom, and I am highly suspicious rogue AI and a naive ignorant older generation of political elites with a misunderstanding of AI technology are directly responsible for our current situation. I just know it in my heart that is the underlying beast source of the problem.

originally posted by: FlyersFan
GOOD FOR THEM!!

Side note - I feel so sorry for this mans wife.
The man she loves was taken away from her.
She couldnt even get to the funeral.
Sad.

His wife who had a pre-prepare speech, and who just so happened to be at the Munich global security conference, and showed no signs of anguish from learning of his death only only hours before.

I'm curious at what point do people like you realize you are being manipulated into aligning with someone you all had never even heard of until a few weeks ago.

Don't you ever feel like you are being lead around like a dog on a leash?

I mean they got you supporting just about every person and policy that negatively effects your and by extension my life. Would you kindly stop blindly subscribing to state propaganda. We would appreciate it...

a reply to: worldstarcountry

I don't feign this dramatic display of emotion to some Baltic Slav who has zero effing influence or impact on an American or European life for that matter,

I don't see a 'dramatic display of emotion' here and I think your posts are far more melodramatic? I'm also not calling for open warfare?
In my opinion ATS has had an influx of 'haters' of our western way of life (what everside of the political isle you sit) who seem happy to use our pretty open and free site to spread lies and propaganda from countries who have nowhere near the freedom we have.
Russia for example control ALL media including the usage of the internet and the press, I know some will say 'we're controlled too' but compared to places like Russia, Iran, Syria, South Korea, China and such, our freedoms are irrefutable.

RT posted in this thread total lies about Alexei Navalnys Mother and he expected people to just swollow it, he's even said in another thread that he believes what he's told by authorities without question, but he can come here and tell us all we're being lied to by our own people in authority but he's don't? Why do you think thats happening?
Tell enough lies untill no one believes anything. This is what Putin is good at, a perfect example of this were the Sailsbury poisonings. 2 proven Russian agents (Bellingcat) travel to Britian for 1 day to vist a Cathedral and then travel back to Russia??

It was Putin who agreed with the west not to invade Ukraine if they gave up their Nukes and 20 years later it was Putin who invaded. If Russia had a real opposition party do you think the war in Ukraine would still be dragging on?
Ukraine maybe corrupt but does that mean an even more corrupt Russia should be allowed to invade and kill it's own opposition who disagree?

a reply to: Kurokage
If you think Americans aren't more propagandized than Russians then I got a pipeline to sell you...

a reply to: JAY1980


"His wife who had a pre-prepare speech, and who just so happened to be at the Munich global security conference, and showed no signs of anguish from learning of his death only only hours before."


She didn't just happen to be there

And it's called strength and dignity.

originally posted by: JAY1980
a reply to: Kurokage
If you think Americans aren't more propagandized than Russians then I got a pipeline to sell you...

I don't think that, it's close but at least some of us are able to think for ourselves. You only have to look at the lies posted about the Germans supposedly talking about bombing a bridge to see real propaganda!

At least some Russians are seeing whats going on in their country and came out in solidarity for the funeral which is what this thread is about.

a reply to: Kurokage
Hey man, I love our way of life. Now explain to me when our way of life became destroying other people's way of life?
I criticize foreign policy decisions which destroy entire other societies, I do not criticize our way of life. I champion my right to criticize my leader without catching a bullet in the head in the middle of a crowded street with no justice. I love our second amendment as it stopped the domestic plans of the same people orchestrating this Baltic fiasco with their Corporate terror op in 2020.

I love that the litigation process, despite the news making it seem like it is not a thing, is holding many to account for the crimes of the 2020 corporate terror operation that overthrew an American government. FFS they bragged about it in the NYT.

I love that I can go to a monster truck show, a renaissance festival, and the beach all in one day without bombs falling on my head. I most certainly do not like my tax money going to enabling a situation in many places around the world that deprive people of those circumstances somehow in my name or the name of freedom and democracy. I am pretty sure we used to discourage and mock this behavior together in the past.



Also, as I have said before, this fellow has troll in his name. Simply do not engage him with the nonsense. We all see so much propagandas day in day out. It is their duty to rile folks up.

a reply to: JAY1980

From her I heard grief, anger and courage.

From you I hear sneering and denigration of a recently bereaved woman