Political thoughts from the garden.

While I can't see all states ending up exactly like this, but it is a better representationn and the basic premise and it would suck on many levels. Food prices would skyrocket, and many would want to move




x.com...

Adam Grant
@AdamMGrant
·
Nov 6, 2020
Showing red vs. blue maps leads people to see America as more divided—and judge people more by their state's stereotypes.

Data: purple maps of state proportions are more accurate, and reduce perceived polarization and stereotypes.

spssi.onlinelibrary.wiley.com...
purplestatesofamerica.org...

originally posted by: Lumenari

originally posted by: KKLOCO

originally posted by: Lumenari

originally posted by: Zanti Misfit
a reply to: Lumenari

" the economic collapse of the US."

There is no Collapse , it could better be Described as a Self Induced Recession caused by the Party in Power at the Moment . That could Change Drastically after Nov. 5th .

Trump could slow it.

A more gradual decline, as it were.

If elected, he would be the leader of one of the three branches.

All of whom would be out to derail him.

So he could have a short term effect.

We're beating a dead horse here and my post was all about why certain policies make sense if the economy collapsed but they don't make sense otherwise.

I’m worried about an opposite scenario with this transpiring.

If Trump is elected, they could expedite the collapse to blame it all on him.

We have a catch 22.

But in reality, if it collapses it doesn't matter.

Not too many people after are going to be worried about what the President of the Former United States said or did.

They will instead be worried about food.

Totally agree. I was just pointing out that if he is elected, it could shorten the amount of time we have before all the pandemonium.

a reply to: putnam6

Thank you for posting that.

I don't agree with some of that either... Arizona would go to the Texas side and then California wouldn't have water, Idaho would split in half and a few other things.

But basically the Divided States of America.

But back to my original premise...

If that actually happened, then the political ideologies the last 20 years on basic things like electric cars, open borders, the divide socially between Americans actually makes sense.

So they know it is coming?

originally posted by: KKLOCO

originally posted by: Lumenari

originally posted by: KKLOCO

originally posted by: Lumenari

originally posted by: Zanti Misfit
a reply to: Lumenari

" the economic collapse of the US."

There is no Collapse , it could better be Described as a Self Induced Recession caused by the Party in Power at the Moment . That could Change Drastically after Nov. 5th .

Trump could slow it.

A more gradual decline, as it were.

If elected, he would be the leader of one of the three branches.

All of whom would be out to derail him.

So he could have a short term effect.

We're beating a dead horse here and my post was all about why certain policies make sense if the economy collapsed but they don't make sense otherwise.

I’m worried about an opposite scenario with this transpiring.

If Trump is elected, they could expedite the collapse to blame it all on him.

We have a catch 22.

But in reality, if it collapses it doesn't matter.

Not too many people after are going to be worried about what the President of the Former United States said or did.

They will instead be worried about food.

Totally agree. I was just pointing out that if he is elected, it could shorten the amount of time we have before all the pandemonium.

Oh! I get where you are coming from now... my apologies.

A conundrum for sure.

a reply to: Lumenari

Gotta sign off, boys and girls. Please feel free to poke holes in my theory. I can't learn in a bubble.

originally posted by: Lumenari
a reply to: putnam6

Thank you for posting that.

I don't agree with some of that either... Arizona would go to the Texas side and then California wouldn't have water, Idaho would split in half and a few other things.

But basically the Divided States of America.

But back to my original premise...

If that actually happened, then the political ideologies the last 20 years on basic things like electric cars, open borders, the divide socially between Americans actually makes sense.

So they know it is coming?

There is so much to go over...But visualizing the possible divisions make it easier to see if it's realistic or not

First of all, this won't start as a hot war and end up with tidy little regions. First will slowly become more and more divided till one or two regions push for separation on their ballot. That would lead to Washington DC fighting it tooth and nail, this won't be a 3-5 year process more like 6-10 years before it could even hit the ballot. No way does that happen till every state has an overwhelming majority wishing to split. Id imagine the first one who tries regardless of side will be vilified and fail. It will be rejected by a significant bipartisan crowd,initially and will fail unless it has large international backing(a possibility)


As to your premise, are electric cars such a divisive topic? For instance, a few electric car manufacturers are opening plants in the south. While the south is likely pro-combustion engine we have no problem making battery-operated cars for California. We all know what the most divisive topics are, the same that has been since I was a kid

But even before we get there how does the start without imploding on itself? For example, there will be large swathes of these regions that will be vehemently against dissolving the union, Period. I'd imagine many more than those on opposite sides wanting a National Divorce. Getting this to pass in one state much less 3-4 will be difficult which is why most scenarios have a California, Texas, or Florida trying this hail mary. Not even gonna touch who can convince 70% of the state's populace to go it alone.

I can't see it happening, for example if California was traitorous to attempt this, I'd imagine it would cut Hollywood's finances in half if not more. Sure we would miss the produce and they would sell elsewhere but even thats dependent on whether the coast can convince the rest to join them, it's not a certainty.

a reply to: putnam6

As for the electric car issue, please point out to me where in California they are mining lithium and cobalt.

They would have to rely on China for that.

So for California with a lowered level of population, they could make it work

Because they couldn't rely on an internal combustion engine because they have a really limited supply of hydrocarbons.

And they would need a ton of plastic just for medical needs... so China.

And I think you are missing the point that if the USD wasn't worth anything soon that the Federal Government would matter.

At all.

a reply to: Lumenari

So they know it is coming?

If you believe they orchestrated the coming collapse, then yes. If TPTB aren't orchaestrating it, we have nothing but imbeciles planning the direction of our nation.

It appears to be a controlled demolition to me. There are always plans; 5 year, 10, 15, 20, 59, 100 year plans that may need a bit of tweeking along the way. Our 'leaders' know exactly what they're doing and where they want us to be according to their timeline.

Trump has been a burr in their saddle, but he can't live forever. They'll just have to adjust their timeline to accomodate our silly pipe dreams of actually having a say in the direction of our country.

Okay so your premise is the dollar is going to collapse and it will lead to such chaos and suffering that there will be wild migrations of the population and yet Cali will still want to manufacture electric cars?

Lot more chit has to happen for them to even get to that point. Unless Gavin is gonna give an electric car to every migrant, because for every Californian who leaves they will be replaced by 2-3 migrants at first till the military stops that at gun point.

REGARDLESS of America's economic collapse, it will be more brutal and evident to the south as the cartels go like Hamas is doing to Gaza on a much more devastating scale. This would be after the Mexican military has been decimated and run off or absorbed into the cartels. I can easily see a band of southern Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, and California 2-3 counties deep,as depicted in the map, for a long time being lawless and cartel-run areas, and primarily Hispanic and aligned with Old Mexico. Even Los Angeles could be overrun, California won't lose population at first but it will be busting at the seams. Before LA collapses all the gangs will work on consolidating thier gains I'd imagine eventually the cartels arrive and get control after months if not years of real-world GTA. It depends on whether the military bases in Southern Cali are aligned with the Republic of Cali or not and how far north Mexico can push.

After all of that chaos we can discuss electric cars, though I'd imagine in a hostile situation Cali would get Chinese cars regardless. There's a high likelihood Free California has to sell its soul, its Silicon Valley, fertile farmlands and water rights to China for protection from Nuevo Mexicali. If Ukraine takes this long, the southwest and California will take 7-10 years of lawlessness war and poverty before China can save its little swathe of the left coast. While small it's still a huge loss for what remains of America. In all the chaos and uncertainty Microsoft, Apple, and other Silicon Valley giants slink off to China. They turn a profit by the 2nd quarter in the year after moving.

I could speculate on this for hours, LOL, and if I thought this could happen instead of wasting time writing I'd make preparations to bug out, my problem is Ive been wrong on a lot of predictions of what's gonna happen in today's world. Its why I listen to some of the other ATSers intently, I know Im likely right on a few things but completely wrong on some others

I think it would be a massive mistake and the only reason it would occur is if the Chinese thought it would be better for their wallets and they have bought off enough politicians to make it be out on the ballot. BUT Nobody consumes as America does, China loses if America no longer purchases in the volume it's accustomed to getting. It would lose so much that China itself could teeter on the brink of revolution and collapse itself.

Will discuss more Im especially interested in the southeast, FWIW feel like the divisions here are almost spot on, and while there will upheaval, crime, and revolts in the cities have a feeling there will be other areas that will hunker down and survive and realize people will have to work together for their collective security and survival. I pretty much feel thats how much of the Midwest will be too, so much so if the Midwest and Southeast are separate they will likely be allies and be able to handle whatever else is thrown at them domestically but internationally we may need some help.

originally posted by: Lumenari
a reply to: putnam6

As for the electric car issue, please point out to me where in California they are mining lithium and cobalt.

They would have to rely on China for that.

Based off the links they May have what is needed .BUT....My guess is they would still need to shipped to China for processing

World's Largest Lithium Reserve Discovered Beneath California's Salton Sea - LINK

Cobalt Mining In California - LINK

My picture of a post economic collapse isn't as neat as yours.

West coast, east coast, red and blue states aren't going to exist how I envision it.

The gangs will be running the show. Slavery will be practiced openly as will cannibalism.

Thugs in charge, oppression and a high fatty diet of American meat.

Now that I think of it... nothings really going to change that much.

originally posted by: TinfoilTophat
My picture of a post economic collapse isn't as neat as yours.

West coast, east coast, red and blue states aren't going to exist how I envision it.

The gangs will be running the show. Slavery will be practiced openly as will cannibalism.

Thugs in charge, oppression and a high fatty diet of American meat.

Now that I think of it... nothings really going to change that much.

I factored in at least 75% of Americans dying.

So it isn't exactly going to be "neat".

I'm just figuring out where it goes once the dust settles.

Although you have a valid point...

New boss, same as the old boss.

originally posted by: Lumenari

originally posted by: TinfoilTophat
My picture of a post economic collapse isn't as neat as yours.

West coast, east coast, red and blue states aren't going to exist how I envision it.

The gangs will be running the show. Slavery will be practiced openly as will cannibalism.

Thugs in charge, oppression and a high fatty diet of American meat.

Now that I think of it... nothings really going to change that much.

I factored in at least 75% of Americans dying.

So it isn't exactly going to be "neat".

I'm just figuring out where it goes once the dust settles.

Although you have a valid point...

New boss, same as the old boss.

75% dead? really? in what time frame? to lose that many we would be talking all-out war. which armies would be participating?

I'd see it being more like guerilla warfare at most, but I just don't see the dollar collapsing so quickly or so drastically.

Guess what Im saying I'll shut up and listen but start with a timeline who what where when how. I feel like I am indeed missing your point...

Just don't believe it's inevitable either, no matter how likely it seems...

a reply to: putnam6

I was not thinking about massive migrations of people.

I was thinking about a massive die off of people.

I think that Progressives think that they can actually control the results.

You think that California will be bursting at the seams in the beginning, population-wise.

I think that they will kill most of each other off in the first few weeks.

Then Progressives will attempt to establish a local government based off of what is left.

They will need to establish a supply chain without having access to a lot of hydrocarbons.

They have access to China.

Thus, an EV alternative.

Otherwise, what is the huge rush to get EV vehicles on the market?

They are not viable with our current population, after all.

Just trying in my head to put the pieces together because the EV market and the push for it doesn't make any rational sense without some backstory that we are not privy to.

originally posted by: putnam6

originally posted by: Lumenari

originally posted by: TinfoilTophat
My picture of a post economic collapse isn't as neat as yours.

West coast, east coast, red and blue states aren't going to exist how I envision it.

The gangs will be running the show. Slavery will be practiced openly as will cannibalism.

Thugs in charge, oppression and a high fatty diet of American meat.

Now that I think of it... nothings really going to change that much.

I factored in at least 75% of Americans dying.

So it isn't exactly going to be "neat".

I'm just figuring out where it goes once the dust settles.

Although you have a valid point...

New boss, same as the old boss.

75% dead? really? in what time frame? to lose that many we would be talking all-out war. which armies would be participating?

I'd see it being more like guerilla warfare at most, but I just don't see the dollar collapsing so quickly or so drastically.

Guess what Im saying I'll shut up and listen but start with a timeline who what where when how. I feel like I am indeed missing your point...

Just don't believe it's inevitable either, no matter how likely it seems...

There won't be a war in the conventional sense.

If you wake up tomorrow and your money won't buy anything and there is nothing to buy anyways, what do you think will happen?

originally posted by: Lumenari

originally posted by: putnam6

originally posted by: Lumenari

originally posted by: TinfoilTophat
My picture of a post economic collapse isn't as neat as yours.

West coast, east coast, red and blue states aren't going to exist how I envision it.

The gangs will be running the show. Slavery will be practiced openly as will cannibalism.

Thugs in charge, oppression and a high fatty diet of American meat.

Now that I think of it... nothings really going to change that much.

I factored in at least 75% of Americans dying.

So it isn't exactly going to be "neat".

I'm just figuring out where it goes once the dust settles.

Although you have a valid point...

New boss, same as the old boss.

75% dead? really? in what time frame? to lose that many we would be talking all-out war. which armies would be participating?

I'd see it being more like guerilla warfare at most, but I just don't see the dollar collapsing so quickly or so drastically.

Guess what Im saying I'll shut up and listen but start with a timeline who what where when how. I feel like I am indeed missing your point...

Just don't believe it's inevitable either, no matter how likely it seems...

There won't be a war in the conventional sense.

If you wake up tomorrow and your money won't buy anything and there is nothing to buy anyways, what do you think will happen?

Well thats a sobering thought on a Saturday Night, like most of the topics here I have my opinion and am ready to defend it, but not afraid when it is something I don't know enough about I ask questions. As always I apologize for such basic or pedantic questions and comments... LOL before you drill me with your sometimes-biting rebuttals, I propose a safeword that once mentioned will send me into "read only" mode for the remainder of the thread

So realistically how fast does a collapse happen, even the Great Depression took till 1933 to have peak unemployment of 24%. Doesn't Wall Street theoretically have ways to curb such drastic and damaging swings now... we haven't seen such a drastic year-to-year climb since. Nothing even close, so what are the leading indicators of TSIATHTF?

NGL I'm woefully unprepared financially if these next 5 years are going to be worse than a recession. If Im reading the timelines correctly we usually have 3-5 years between down periods, but with recent highs since the 90s 7 years 10 years 6 years, and another 10 years, and that took the COVID debacle. On top of unemployment being incredibly low my state is 9.0 off its historical high....for example, LTA 5.73 thats with 2020 factored in

What is the flashpoint(s) that sets off such a sudden collapse...

a reply to: Lumenari

Otherwise, what is the huge rush to get EV vehicles on the market?

Maybe it's about other aspects. Innovation in driverless/autonomous vehicles seems more closely tied to EVs. This in turn allows for easier geo fencing of the population.

Or EVs are used as an accelerator towards a specific goal on the technology tree that has nothing to do with physically getting from point A to point B? Neural networks, self conscious AI,... AI "god"?

Occult aspects of burning fossil fuels? Burnt offerings/sacrifice... And what would a shift towards a more "electric universe" mean in that light?

a reply to: Lumenari

Total Earnings are less than Expenditures.

The only way to fix that is to fire 75% of our Federal Government.

Not happening.

If we did fire 75% of the Federal Government most people wouldn't even notice.

2 things that rarely decrease are taxes and the size of government.

I think it's a law...or a rule...or something.

a reply to: Lumenari

How about a little pushback?

What you describe takes a few critical ingredients, even assuming all the working parts rely on people readily complying with the leaders who assume power. The "just doing our jobs" faction explains most of that.

First is the scope of what you're describing. A decades if not generational long plan that is prone to it's very own corrupt corruption, if I can word it as such. Perhaps this is easily explained however with a certain amount of zealotry and cultish behaviors. The green movement or any other extremist topic de jour as examples.

Second is the rule of crowds. While they are predictable and programmable there is now the matter of instant communications. This changes the game with who controls the crowd and how easily they can be usurped.

Yet, even these two things have readily available explanations. Those being the extreme lengths gov't and media have gone to over the past decade and humans ability to think/reason themselves out of illogical situations. Which explains everything we also see today.

Great thread S&F.
I remember talking with some girlfriends some 20 years ago now, and said something along the lines of "America is going to implode, just like the fall's of other 'empires' of the past, only this time they will take the rest of the world with them"
Rainbows
Jane